"If They Want It They Can Have It": Ulster's Tragedy.

The new flag of GB after northern Ireland independence.
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repartition of Northern Ireland?
 
This can end in a complete balls up if some squad gets caught.
It’s a giant risk given the Ranger Wing (our special forces) aren‘t even operational yet so relying on the basic troops of the DF, that’s not a good thing. Hell when even SAS patrols got picked up by Gardaí checkpoints at this period it shows how risky this is.
 
It’s a giant risk given the Ranger Wing (our special forces) aren‘t even operational yet so relying on the basic troops of the DF, that’s not a good thing. Hell when even SAS patrols got picked up by Gardaí checkpoints at this period it shows how risky this is.
indeed.
I suspect they will be raids coming south too and attacks on republican targets or the Gardaí.
 
indeed.
I suspect they will be raids coming south too and attacks on republican targets or the Gardaí.
Yep, the DF only has about 8K of operational troops, effectively forget the Reserves, that's not enough to close the border, cover the Gardai patrols, keep a lid on any Provo reaction and handle refugee camps... I mean hell the Army is still chronically short on basic equipment, I'd imagine a fairly quick plea to Washington (normally London but perhaps not in this situation) perhaps for military equipment in short order (trucks, helicopters etc), and a desperate need to shore up the state's capabilities.
 
Yep, the DF only has about 8K of operational troops, effectively forget the Reserves, that's not enough to close the border, cover the Gardai patrols, keep a lid on any Provo reaction and handle refugee camps... I mean hell the Army is still chronically short on basic equipment, I'd imagine a fairly quick plea to Washington (normally London but perhaps not in this situation) perhaps for military equipment in short order (trucks, helicopters etc), and a desperate need to shore up the state's capabilities.
Hell, hold fundraisers in the US ala how the IRA used to. Might be enough tog et a considerable amoutn of cash that way.
 
Hell, hold fundraisers in the US ala how the IRA used to. Might be enough tog et a considerable amoutn of cash that way.
Don't forget that the IRA/PROVO/et al are no friends of the Republic either, the Republic may well want to avoid tying themselves openly with the IRA if NI goes into a utter Sectarian bloodbath. There's no reason why Dublin can't legitimately ask for equipment and support in this situation.
 
Don't forget that the IRA/PROVO/et al are no friends of the Republic either, the Republic may well want to avoid tying themselves openly with the IRA if NI goes into a utter Sectarian bloodbath. There's no reason why Dublin can't legitimately ask for equipment and support in this situation.
True, but at the same time, they'll be going up anyway, so best to just pass on some.... requests to the IRA and friends from the Republic, so everyone gets to come away happy.
 
True, but at the same time, they'll be going up anyway, so best to just pass on some.... requests to the IRA and friends from the Republic, so everyone gets to come away happy.
Again, those groups are against the existence of the Republic, declaring that they (each one of them) are the one and only Government of Ireland and that the Republic was an illegitimate state. Aiding them and potentially having the world blame the Republic for any Republican terror attack isn't something Dublin should be risking.
 
It might be interesting to hear what Bob Fisk is reporting in the Times on the events in Belfast or his friend Conor O'Clery of the Irish Times.
 
"So, you have chosen... death."

If the situation came within 500 kilometers of Biafra , there would be either a NATO or UNSC sanctioned intervention, Get the ICC cafeteria staff hiring, gonna be a LOT of business in Geneva. Accused will be delivered on aircraft with USAF stenciled on the Fuselage. UDL and/or Provos wants to play games they will REALLY quickly discover that the "brutality" of the British Army during the Troubles was a Prom Date. Once you get American and Australian veterans who cut their teeth fighting the VC and NVA kicking in doors looking for people running starvation/death camps, (with the sort of RoE that folks running death camps tend to generate) the British Army with their water cannon and rubber bullets will be recalled as "the Good Old Days".

It is clearly not right, since the Werstern Democracies let Biafra happen for pushing three years, but the simple fact is if you had what amounted to Third Reich Light setting up along the Irish Sea the virtual Wrath of God would fall on the perpetrators. Simply the Irish-American electorate's political firepower makes that a mortal lock.
Why would Australia become involved. It is at the other end of the Earth from Australia and it's concerns. It has just undergone massive upheaval caused by it's commitment to Vietnam, it's society has become riven with dispute and demonstration. It has more then enough problems. Would it want to get involved in the Irish situation? Not on your nanny!
 
Why would Australia become involved. It is at the other end of the Earth from Australia and it's concerns. It has just undergone massive upheaval caused by it's commitment to Vietnam, it's society has become riven with dispute and demonstration. It has more then enough problems. Would it want to get involved in the Irish situation? Not on your nanny!
They would probably attempt to label it as a British problem that the British would have to solve, and lord knows they wouldn't want another Vietnam situation that might be even worse, not because they wouldn't have experience within guerilla warfare, but the fact that their involvement with their "expertise" might escalate things even further, depending on the conduct of both sides.
 
They would probably attempt to label it as a British problem that the British would have to solve, and lord knows they wouldn't want another Vietnam situation that might be even worse, not because they wouldn't have experience within guerilla warfare, but the fact that their involvement with their "expertise" might escalate things even further, depending on the conduct of both sides.
The British have just as much expertise. Australia's is more recent but not by much. Australia's approach would be to move into an area, take it over, talk to the local leaders and try and satisfy their needs as much as the Government's. In Somalia we were asked to stay by the locals when it came time to pull out. In East Timor we stayed as long as we could. In the Solomans we stayed as long as we could. In Vietnam we left early because of the problems back home and the change of Government that resulted, even so, we dominated the countryside and protected the people. The Irish might not like a fair-handed occupation force, considering what they were going through. The Protestants were oppressors, the Catholics oppressed. We'd shoot both sides just as happily. It was though, on the otherside of the world.
 

CalBear

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Why would Australia become involved. It is at the other end of the Earth from Australia and it's concerns. It has just undergone massive upheaval caused by it's commitment to Vietnam, it's society has become riven with dispute and demonstration. It has more then enough problems. Would it want to get involved in the Irish situation? Not on your nanny!
I would very much expect that, regardless of any NATO or UNSC decision to act, the "Anglosphere" countries would react to starvation camps/mass murder (i.e. Biafria) with a vengeance. That would include Canada and New Zealand in addition to the U.S & Australia. The reason the Australian and American military was cited by name is that, unlike any other English Speaking countries, they had fairly recent experience in combat, especially in small unit combat against irregular opponents who, based on the Biafria scenario, see civilian deaths as a feature of their rebellion rather than a bug. In the case of Australian forces, as with American units there would be a significant number of enlisted, even in the lowest ranks, who had combat experience against the Viet Cong while there would also be serving senior NCO and Officers, along with a large percentage of political leaders, who had personally seen the results of Camps (both in Europe and in the SW Pacific).

Australia might not send a division, but a battalion is very likely. Of course YMMV.
 
"I was a civil servant at Stormont. I'd lived in Northern Ireland all my life and the 'troubles' were just something I saw on television. I had catholic and protestant friends and the only argument we had was about football. I still remember Faulkner on the radio proclaiming 'independence' and thinking 'you bastard'. I got a knock on the door and it was a friend of mine. A catholic who lived down the road. He stood in my kitchen with tears in his eyes. His face was white and he was shaking. 'help us please in Christ's name help us"

A couple of days later I was working late even though Stormont had been closed down. I had seen and heard things I never imagined. My friend's words echoed in my mind. I rang someone I knew in Derry..."
 
After losing the general election called soon after UDI in Ulster, rubberstamped by a lame and increasingly isolated Heath loses to a Labour and Liberal landslide in late 1972 snap elections. The election was caused by the non-attendance of the Irish parties who had declared UDI.
After consulting the EEC and USA interests the United Nations are called in as a peacekeeping force, and UN sanctions are gleefully non-vetoed by USSR and China, laughing at the NATO and UK's embarrassment.
Not wanting to be dragged into another 'Vietnam on our doorstep' the rest of the UK is fully behind the newly elected prime minister, even the new Conservative opposition, aghast at the Ulster stab in the back of their former leader.
Both Eire and the UK enter the EEC in January 1973 as planned, leaving Ulster a pariah state.
Heath would still have had mainland majority.
 
I wonder how do the Soviets react to the events in Northern Ireland?
I wonder could Argentia use the crisis as a chance to invade the Falklands?
 
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