Howell Cobb’s president of the confederate revolution

[JWQ]

Hello everybody I’m making a alternative history timeline about my nation state called confederate farmers.
This is

NationStates | The Republic of Confederate farmers | Factbook

www.nationstates.net

Before I began Please try not to block every avenue of my alternative history to form . So people will understand that I Know what I’m talking about I will present my credentials. I have been raised with the passion for history particularly American history. When I think of history I think about living in it . I am the son of professor Mark Quintanilla His credentials
I also accompanied him during his Fulbright
I certainly hope to be his protégé. .This alternative history also borrows a lot of many aspects in many good alternative history books I enjoy . My favorite being Carl Scott’s book.
Another interesting book that will be used from. Let us never forget Dixie victory’s . Showing us that the confederacy could have won the civil war . Another book by the same editor of Dixie victorious is the author of this book. Showing how Gettysburg could have been a confederate victory. We will of course be using a book that does not contain a hypothetical alternative scenario. In this book by Bevin Alexander He tells of the critical mistakes General Robert E lee made as well as other Mistakes that officers had made that doomed the CSA. A confederate Cannae Against the union soldiers was possibly


I don’t like all alternative history of the Civil War . Some of the worst I’ve ever heard from reviews was by Turtledove . A alternative history that was partially good though too biased was by Howard ray white .

Hey a good book by Roger Ranson ,but kinda dry. This is extremely helpful source nonetheless

And any alternative history for Civil War my favorite scenario is the northwest conspiracy theory turned into a rebellion.

let us begin with our alternative history I will be your host .

question before I begin with the timeline . If all went well in 1862 (Shiloh, successful Kentucky invasion, Successful Missouri invasion, Maryland and Pennsylvania invasion Because of Antietam) How long would Lincoln wait till he issue the emancipation proclamation? I do not think they Confederates could’ve won Antietam,but I do think how’s the battle been somewhere else in Maryland or Pennsylvania they could have possibly won a successful campaign.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

Hello everybody I’m making a alternative history timeline about my nation state called confederate farmers.
This is

NationStates | The Republic of Confederate farmers | Factbook

www.nationstates.net

Before I began Please try not to block every avenue of my alternative history to form . So people will understand that I Know what I’m talking about I will present my credentials. I have been raised with the passion for history particularly American history. When I think of history I think about living in it . I am the son of professor Mark Quintanilla His credentials
I also accompanied him during his Fulbright
I certainly hope to be his protégé. .This alternative history also borrows a lot of many aspects in many good alternative history books I enjoy . My favorite being Carl Scott’s book.
Another interesting book that will be used from. Let us never forget Dixie victory’s . Showing us that the confederacy could have won the civil war . Another book by the same editor of Dixie victorious is the author of this book. Showing how Gettysburg could have been a confederate victory. We will of course be using a book that does not contain a hypothetical alternative scenario. In this book by Bevin Alexander He tells of the critical mistakes General Robert E lee made as well as other Mistakes that officers had made that doomed the CSA. A confederate Cannae Against the union soldiers was possibly


I don’t like all alternative history of the Civil War . Some of the worst I’ve ever heard from reviews was by Turtledove . A alternative history that was partially good though too biased was by Howard ray white .

Hey a good book by Roger Ranson ,but kinda dry. This is extremely helpful source nonetheless

And any alternative history for Civil War my favorite scenario is the northwest conspiracy theory turned into a rebellion.

let us begin with our alternative history I will be your host .

question before I begin with the timeline . If all went well in 1862 (Shiloh, successful Kentucky invasion, Successful Missouri invasion, Maryland and Pennsylvania invasion Because of Antietam) How long would Lincoln wait till he issue the emancipation proclamation? I do not think they Confederates could’ve won Antietam,but I do think how’s the battle been somewhere else in Maryland or Pennsylvania they could have possibly won a successful campaign.

I have always been of the mind that the emancipation proclamation was a PR move after the win at Gettysburg. If the South won that battle I think he wouldn't have done it. Here with even more wins for the CSA, I think it happens much later in the war or not at all. The main reason I say this is that he needed a big win. Remove that and it is likely seen as what it likely was...a PR move. If he does it as OTL he is seen as weak due to trying to win the war using what was clearly just a PR move after a big loss.

 

[cheffisti]

I have always been of the mind that the emancipation proclamation was a PR move after the win at Gettysburg. If the South won that battle I think he wouldn't have done it. Here with even more wins for the CSA, I think it happens much later in the war or not at all. The main reason I say this is that he needed a big win. Remove that and it is likely seen as what it likely was...a PR move. If he does it as OTL he is seen as weak due to trying to win the war using what was clearly just a PR move after a big loss.

You mean Antietam not Gettysburg.

 

[SpaceOrbisGaming]

You mean Antietam, not Gettysburg.

It was one of them I don't recall which one he used to push it. At any rate with more Confederate victories, the Emancipation Proclamation is either delayed or is never pushed and thus never happens, at least in the war. Again I am of the mind it never happens due to the fact that if he does push it he'll be viewed as weak. He needs a strong win and with a timeline that is clearly aimed at a win for the South and a loss for the North, I'm betting he doesn't have that win he needs to push it.

 

[JWQ]

This alternative diversions begins when Jefferson Davis somehow doesn’t become the president. Well the convention is definitely searching for someone who they get to be a very competent man to lead their newly formed country. Tombs I recall wasn’t he second on the ballot to be president by the Confederate Congress? If somehow Jefferson Davis would’ve known he was a possible candidate for president he would definitely have told them that he hated the job and he might not have even made a good president.

President tombs has a horrible drinking problem and isn’t a ideal pick despite him even disparately wanting to president.The most competent pick I would argue would be Howell Cobb’s definitely has some good credentials to be president. Last I have never heard except from Carl Scott’s alternative history book that he would have been a better president.

The point of Divergence is that the Convention settles on how Cobbs be in the next president because he was president of the provisional Confederate government . Robert Toombs disappointed in not becoming president is asked to be Vice President. Cobb’s insists he takes VP to reward the man who was almost was selected for president. Cobb makes a private agreement to share power with his VP including responsibility’s. Once Cobb feels that he is no longer needed he will resign his administration and turn over power to Robert Toombs. Cobb’s does agree to endorse him for re-election after the crisis is over .

Cobb’s picks competent people he knows for the people in government particularly cabinet members.
Cobbs cabinet

Secretary of the Navy George A Trenholmn, Assistant secretary Of the navy Stephen Mallory, Secretary of the treasury Gazaway b Lamar, Attorney General John Slidell, Postmaster General H Reagan,
Commissioner of railroads William M.Wadley whose responsibility is to keep the civilian economy operating while in service for the war effort.
Beauregard's impressive military engineer skills is given the command coastal defenses in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida and is In charge of Fort inspections.

General and chief of staff (CSA) Joseph E Johnson. Heavily Cajoled before the separation of Virginia from the union happens

General Bragg is placed in charge of training troops.In actual history soldiers that where under Braggs command in Florida where some of they best trained soldiers during the civil war.

General Gabrielle rains is The head of the Torpedo Bureau(right man for the right position)
As Head of the torpedo Bureau he is in charge of the production and usage of Torpedoes. . He also is qualified to help with new confederate inventions. Gabrielle Rains Was from Virginia,but spent most of his time living in-the Deep South.

Quartermaster-General Albert S Johnson Has a very important job and is the most competent man for such a difficult logistics problem. often unlike in actual history needed supplies to go to troops
Until a secretary of war is placed he will be given the responsibility as one and provides advice for the president. Recruited in California and heavily cajoled

Josiah Gorgas Head of the ordnance in reality he managed to keep the Confederate armies well supplied with weapons and ammunition, despite the Union blockade, and even though the South had hardly any munitions industry before the war he was given the difficult task to fill those orders

As a American Missourian who feels more at home to the 19th century and who loves his country the United States .
I say Let the confederacy go and leave those 7 states alone. Lincoln will either have to choose to let them go or at least ,invade or cajole them back in the union

I think secession given the context is a bad idea possibly even a stupid idea.
Plus Slavery was protected under the constitution. https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/09/17/constitutions-biggest-flaw-protecting-slavery/

Though slavery indirectly was protected under the constitution the document itself is bent over backwards over slavery.

I would further say at the bottom of the root slavery did cause the Civil War.
However America is out of many cultures and Ideologies. E pluribus unum

At the Time of Fort Sumter The South was Winning.
The Railroads, Mails and other Commerce was operating normally across the new border.
The Southern Ports were Still Open
The South had ordered new Money from the NY Banks Printing Facilities.
IIRC the South had ordered Rifles/Pistols from Colt and Winchester Gun Companies and the Companies were preparing to fill the Orders.
The Opposition Papers had started Using a Confederate byline on News from the South.
Most Lower/Middle Class Whites in the North Had no desire to go to War, over Political wrangling between the Upper Class Ruling Classes.

Fort Sumter Changed all This.
It gave Lincoln the Bloody Flag. -- The Rebels Have Attacked The Union, Our Boys in Blue have been Killed.

However I think that Lincoln would have keep pushing till He got the Bloody Flag in Some other Incident.

But every Day with out it gives the South another day to Get Organized. To Raise and Train it's Military.
How much difference another couple Months of Preparing would have done is debatable, But any extra time would Help.

Toombs didn't want to fire on Fort Sumter. If he was made Provisional President instead of Davis, he could have ordered no shot to be fired unless it was to return fire on the Union. I don't know if people would have supported it, but Lincoln wpuld have to had ordered the secession ended with the military. I just can't imagine him let a good half of the country go away.

In my alternative history President Howell Cobb places a secret service agency headed by Judah Benjamin. This agency’s goal is to pacify the Union war against the confederate states before it even happens.

This Secret service will remind people in the Midwest that to bully the Confederate states this could very well destroy economys dependent on the river trade .Such as city’s on the Mississippi rive

The agency future-reminds people if abolition was to occur floods of African slaves will take away northern Jobs.The agency attacks Lincoln as a tyrant who wishes to undermine state rights by expanding government. The agency attacks tariffs and internal improvements

In attack on Sumter would be "suicide, murder," and would stir a "hornet's nest" of hostility to the South. "It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal siad Vice President Robert Toombs.Cobb promised to share power and allows Toombs Wish.

 

[EWHM]

Not firing on Fort Sumter is probably worth at least a month or two of more time. And at that stage, delaying is favorable to the Confederacy. More time to get war supplies bought, more time to sell cotton, more time before the blockade really starts to bite. And less time in Lincoln's first term.

 

[JWQ]

Not firing on Fort Sumter is probably worth at least a month or two of more time. And at that stage, delaying is favorable to the Confederacy. More time to get war supplies bought, more time to sell cotton, more time before the blockade really starts to bite. And less time in Lincoln's first term.

I much appreciate your comments man ! As a reward I will continue the timeline.

President Howell Cobb is competent leader who knows he needs to focus on military preparations and further pacification of the northern population. Judah Benjamin would certainly probably be the best pick as head of the confederate secret service and representative to Europe (called a delegation) Benjamin Would simultaneously be The ambassador to France.

1. Confederate Secret Service Their goal is to pacify the union war effort by sending out diplomats, contractors, lobbyists, organizing spy rings, aiding guerilla movements, helping secessionist movements. Spreads Pamphlets, speeches, Propaganda posters revolutionary message of state rights, Free trade, And southern independence
   Let Us Go” circulated throughout the South and into the North. Samuel Morris comes into contact with these contractors in this alternative history and gladly makes a deal with the government to build telegram not just in the Deep South, but the upper south. Morris Agreeing to build Telegraph wires is certainly possibly ,because he is a well-known defender of slavery .He actually believed it was sanctioned by God and was considered to be some one who was genuinely American who knows neither North nor south.(also kinda a copperhead)
2. It is well published that Lincoln broke the quasi armistice by rearming Fort Sumter.Lincoln is seen as the aggressor after he blockade southern ports.
   
   
3. After Lincoln resupplies Fort Sumter Judah Benjamin Is sent to Europe to help lobby for recognition of The Confederate states of America. Judah Benjamin successful persuades country’s to give the CSA valuable loans to this new republican government .In exchange for selling cotton
   
4. The CSA receives military supplies such as Lee Enfield rifles,Whitsworth sniper rifles, Lee Matt revolvers, other supplies including uniforms. Until War erupts Judah Benjamin is still able to work as head of the Secret Service
   
   
   
5. The secret service successfully aids Southern Californians in the process of Declaring secession in which the populace are largely in favor of. In actual history they didn’t break away ,because Fort Sumter made it military impossible.
   
   
6. 
   
   
   Southern Illinois also receives secession lobbyists.
7. 
   The agency invites a man struggling with financial issues who worked as a purchasing agent to invent the new coal torpedo earlier then in actual history
   
8. The secret service continues the propaganda campaign .
9. 

7 The more Lincoln Ignores the confederacy the more people see them as a independent country but are also less willing to take the C.S.A. seriously because of them Backing down, But I agree it’s worth not firing the first shots. The more Lincoln does chooses not to do aggressive actions the more more likely people are willing to sell weapons to the confederacy in the union.

 

[marktaha]

Possible slogan - You let us go, we leave you alone.

 

[JWQ]

Possible slogan - You let us go, we leave you alone.

Honestly not a bad idea! President Howell Cobb’s ignores the provocation and continues preparations for war. The Secret service reminds the German immigrants that the Republican Party is made up of bigoted former know nothing Anti Catholics .This move certainly hurts Irish catholics support for the union as well as other immigrants including Italians.

The secret service would have success in persuading military officers to resign their commission in the Union military and Enlistment would have a similar situation. The agency would continue to have a hay day using northern prejudices to their advantage Bring down the union war machine. The agents can cause dissatisfaction with the more radical Republicans and the -black minority ,as the agency will remind them that Lincoln is for them to going back to Africa.

Confederate agent’s even attack Lincoln for being illegitimate and bring evidence. (Open to faulty speculation ) that Lincoln's father Thomas Lincoln was not Lincoln's biological father his supposed biological father Abraham Enloe.

The Union strikes back however!
I’m guessing in April 21 somewhat disappointed or angry that the C.S.A. didn’t attack fort Sumter or Fort Pickens Lincoln Blockades the Confederates forcing intercepted ships to high pay protective tariffs at the expense to the separated states. The northern Congress decides to Beef up and improve the union navy To collect taxes and deal with any possible insurrection.With The session fever going down in the upper south ,as a result of confederates not attacking fort Sumter.This refusal to take the provocation means fewer people are willing to take the Confederacy seriously. However more people are sympathetic to this new southern confederacy,but many more are not interested in spilling blood in this war.
The union would certainly be divided,but With cooler heads prevailing This allows more time for Lincoln to make a deal with the upper south. All states should war ever come under any unforeseen circumstances may refuse soldiers/sailors in Lincoln call for peace keeping volunteers. Soldiers may not cross the states borders or use the rivers on those states in the league .In return union bases will be given more supplies

TheLeague of armed neutrality formes making up Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Missouri, North Carolina, Maryland and Delaware.

Arkansas doesn’t join ,because the legislature appears more willing to fight if war begins against their southern neighbors.president Howell Cobb agrees to respect the states armed neutrality in exchange Secret service actions are to be considered legal.
In Missouri, the Price–Harney Truce Is agreed to make federal forces responsible for order in the St. Louis area, and state forces responsible for order in the rest of the state. Under the terms of the truce, as understood by Harney, the agreement obligated the Missouri State Guard to protect Unionist Missourians from harassment and to hold the state for the Union.

Virginia doesn’t declare secession and General Lee accepts the Rank of Major General to the recommendations Of General Scott .
Ro

General Lee is responsible for training Volunteers mainly from New England and upstate New York. Following many are from the upper Midwest some from the mid Atlantic states fewer from the central Midwest and the upper south

 

[JWQ]

Lincoln rejects Scots advice to gradually build up the army instead relies on peacekeeping volunteers ,who are mainly from New England. Lincoln announces land/river trade, as well as postage will remain open.
1861 Lincoln Blockades the Confederate states of America and all ships will be captured.
One out of every 10 Confederate ships are intercepted

Hear I am taking liberties and it’s probably the least likely In my alternative history timeline. However
With great help from the confederate Secret Fernando wood and his pro southern Business oligarchs gather henchmen to orchestrate a session coup. Meirwoods forces Objective is too take the
military property around the city, including ships, forts, and the vast Brooklyn Navy Yard. By pulling the strings of the New York City Council tNYC city declare itself separate from New York State. They likely would not declare session against the union however.

1 New York City did have a Session movement. Fernando Woods business friends could possibly achieve this session with massive bribery and other corrupt measures.

2 The New York city’s separation to this day is discussed

3 This separation is about saving NYC economy and other connections with our southern brethren Let our sisters part in peace.Mayor Fernando wood declares New York City the city state of
Free city of Tri-Insula

This Session could only achieved under very competent leadership both from the confederacy and New York City After it’s session from NYC Mayor Wood imminently signs the free trade treaty with the confederate states of America.
The Confederates guarantee that New York City sovereignty if threatened war will happen!The city State ofNYC prospers as they city is happily tariff free. Commerce is preserved. New York Democrat Governor Horatio Seymour promises normal trade relationships with no tariffs between the state of New York .
If NYC session would have occurred this would be a disastrous blow to Washington. If New York became a “free city of itself,” the federal government might have slid into bankruptcy — the Treasury was already near empty — and it would have faced nearly insurmountable odds in raising money and men to oppose the breakup of the now-splintering Union. It would have lost its largest port, the entrepot to thousands of miles of canals and railroads, the keystone in a grand arch of commerce connecting the American Great Lakes to European markets. And it would have opened the possibility that, in a war, the South would have military access to the heart of the Union. Lincoln feels he has to act immediately! Or the United States will cease to function as a country. President Lincoln sends Horatio Seymour to negotiate NYC into rejoining New York.After A incident in Missouri and And pro confederate people attack New Englanders sent to guard DC .Lincoln declares A state of rebellion

New York City quickly renters the union, as they do not want to fight fellow northerns. ,Siding with the confederacy would bring disaster to New York City. The membersof New York City session are given a full pardon of any wrong doings what so ever

The Civil war begins

The Union Blockade The Rebellion states
Union Navy easily capture Port Royal between Charleston and Savannah and Ship Island between New Orleans and Mobile.

Union General Robert E Lee Defends the capital and areas surrounding the capital against Confederate partisans. Confederate Guerrillas receive favored local support from civilians. The Secret service spy agencies give the fighters much needed information at the more vulnerable union troops. With Compromised intelligence general Lee defends the union government against the rebels. General Lee treats the armed civilians as regular soldiers and refuses to act brutally

 

[Gentleman Johnny]

I'm not sure why you keep spelling "Howell Cobb" with an "s" or "'s". His name was Cobb. Not Cobb's or Cobbs. Other than that this is very interesting. I've always been of the opinion that Cobb could have potentially made some better choices than Davis did.

 

[JWQ]

I'm not sure why you keep spelling "Howell Cobb" with an "s" or "'s". His name was Cobb. Not Cobb's or Cobbs. Other than that this is very interesting. I've always been of the opinion that Cobb could have potentially made some better choices than Davis did.

When did you form that opinion? I formed that opinion when I first started to hear about him. Jefferson Davis was easily 1 of the worst president that American states produced. I formed the possibility before it was even a cool notion before I even heard of It’s a worthwhile purchase too! The book certainly is helpful. From what I’ve heard turtle dove series books are really bad and unlikely. Sure Clopton‘s book counterfactual history of the confederacy With Hannibal Hamlin replacing Lincoln who died in an early attempted assassination during the Baltimore plot,but some times 1 person can very well change history entirely President Howell Cobb

pop February 18, 1861, from day 1 of his administration prepares the CSA for war. He sends Man/resources to pool and defend selected key defense areas of value . He also sends troops to monitor Southern unionist ,while training local militia for irregular warfare..President Howell Cobb makes peace With some of the southern unionist and pacifists . As long if they do not aid the union enemy they will be left alone . They won’t be forced to pick sides (no conscription at least for a while ) his vice president will make many speeches to rally the southern people for enlistment and to sacrifice for the war effort

Only to end the war Quickly union General Robert E Lee agrees to command troops for his Superior General in Chief Winfield in Scott’s seaborne invasion of the 8 Rebel states. However military movements get leaked out allowing more time for confederate troops to prepare at specific areas that will be attacked.

Siege of Charleston and savanna
The Confederate naval forces cluster at Charlestown SC with support from the reinforced coastal defenses from the army.
Naval forces bombard The seemingly Impregnable fortifications Beauregard help built under his military engineering leadership.
The Confederate forts Display calculated cannon fire against the union navy supported by the confederate surface and coastal fleet guarding Charlestown. The Yankees meet further welcomes with sea mines, Primitive Torpedoes, fire ships, sea obstructions added with few innovative midget submarines that sink union ships with the torpedoes

Admiral Farragut ships armed with new rifle artillery cannons blow great holes at fort Sumter during the siege. The sand forts however are actually able to absorb the canon fire fired from ships. Though outnumbered General Beauregard does well against the union navy and initially against the amphibious troop landings. As the forts become reduced with artillery the union began to land troops on the beaches. The Union navy coordinates General Lees's assault on the forts and beachheads which are meet with heavy fighting, Land mines, and booby traps thanks to Beauregard and the confederate torpedo bureau. Confederate also use the tactic to fool unnotable general such as Burnside, Butler, Banks to attack areas the confederate are at full strength while leaving other areas with fewer troops. However, Union General Robert e Lee observing the confederates movements sees the deception. General Lee with full cooperation from the navy launch aggressive frontal assaults against the Confederate defenders

General Lee was the most gifted soldier the union had at that time possibly. General Lee believes The best defense is the best offense and successfully captures Charleston and savanna from the rebellion. This proves to be an important victory. The loss of Charleston cuts off the CSA almost entirely from communications with the rest of the world and closed the only channel through which the C.S. can expect to get supplies from abroad, now and almost their only dependence. General Lee offers the captured confederates Chivalrous surrender terms and even sends federal money to pay for the City’s damages. In a series of attacks and advances Union forces captures most of the low country of South Carolina. General Lee sends a subordinate to March on the state capitals of South Carolina and Georgia. After savanna and Charleston are under the fold of the union Winfield Scott issues orders to March to the rebel capital to quickly end the war.Do you have any more suggestions I should do? Beauregard was actually a good military engineer, He just wasn’t a good field commander. His military record Shows he did well-commanding forts and he did well in the Carolina Florida military department.

 

[JWQ]

This alternative diversions begins when Jefferson Davis somehow doesn’t become the president. Well the convention is definitely searching for someone who they get to be a very competent man to lead their newly formed country. Tombs I recall wasn’t he second on the ballot to be president by the Confederate Congress? If somehow Jefferson Davis would’ve known he was a possible candidate for president he would definitely have told them that he hated the job and he might not have even made a good president.

President tombs has a horrible drinking problem and isn’t a ideal pick despite him even disparately wanting to president.The most competent pick I would argue would be Howell Cobb’s definitely has some good credentials to be president. Last I have never heard except from Carl Scott’s alternative history book that he would have been a better president.

The point of Divergence is that the Convention settles on how Cobbs be in the next president because he was president of the provisional Confederate government . Robert Toombs disappointed in not becoming president is asked to be Vice President. Cobb’s insists he takes VP to reward the man who was almost was selected for president. Cobb makes a private agreement to share power with his VP including responsibility’s. Once Cobb feels that he is no longer needed he will resign his administration and turn over power to Robert Toombs. Cobb’s does agree to endorse him for re-election after the crisis is over .

Cobb’s picks competent people he knows for the people in government particularly cabinet members.
Cobbs cabinet
Secretary of the Navy George A Trenholmn, Assistant secretary Of the navy Stephen Mallory, Secretary of the treasury Gazaway b Lamar, Attorney General John Slidell, Postmaster General H Reagan,
Commissioner of railroads William M.Wadley whose responsibility is to keep the civilian economy operating while in service for the war effort.
Beauregard's impressive military engineer skills is given the command coastal defenses in South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida and is In charge of Fort inspections.

General and chief of staff (CSA) Joseph E Johnson. Heavily Cajoled before the session in Virginia breaks out

General Bragg is placed in charge of training troops because in reality, his troops were some of the best-disciplined troops in the Confederate Army during his command in Florida.

General Gabrielle rains the head of the Torpedo Bureau(right man for the right position)he is in charge of the production and usage of Torpedoes. Also helps with inventions. He was recruited from the upper south but lived in the deep south most of his life.

Quartermaster-General Albert S Johnson Has a very important job and is the most competent man for such a difficult logistics problem. often unlike in actual history needed supplies to go to troops
Until a secretary of war is placed he will be given the responsibility as one and provides advice for the president. Recruited in California and heavily cajoled

Josiah Gorgas Head of the ordnance in reality he managed to keep the Confederate armies well supplied with weapons and ammunition, despite the Union blockade, and even though the South had hardly any munitions industry before the war he was given the difficult task to fill those orders

As a American Missourian who feels more at home to the 19th century and who loves his country the United States .
I say Let the confederacy go and leave those 7 states alone. Lincoln will either have to choose to let them go or at least ,invade or cajole them back in the union

I think secession given the context is a bad idea possibly even a stupid idea.
Plus Slavery was protected under the constitution. https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/09/17/constitutions-biggest-flaw-protecting-slavery/

pretty much however the constitution is bent over backwards over slavery
I would say at the bottom of the root slavery did cause the Civil War.
How ever I think sectionalism has a huge thing to do with it especially when in many ways we are out of many not one . This book also does explain that minus New England the rest of the American sections where willing to let the Deep South go without a fight.




In my alternative history president Cobb’s forms a secret service which helps organize and improve Spy rings, Anti war movements up north, pro confederate secessionist,CSA Purchase agents, and more .


but right now the agency is telling the people we don’t want war let us go!
This Secret service will remind people in the Midwest that war could very well destroy the economy’s dependent on the river econmView attachment 602553
View attachment 602554Just let us go and we will leave you alone in peace! The agency further reminds people abolition would destroy the southern economy,as well as bring mass of poor Black people up north taking away peoples jobs

In this critical time line the Confederates choose not to attack fort Sumter largely thanks to vice presidents tombs advice. (Historical Secretary of State , Robert )
Toombs of Georgia, vocally dissented. Vice President Toombs tells Cobb that a attack on Sumter would be "suicide, murder," and would stir a "hornet's nest" of hostility to the South. "It is unnecessary; it puts us in the wrong; it is fatal," Toombs pleaded.)Cobb in this alternative history listening to the wise words of advice.Because Toombs advice is good and as he promised to share power as president to the VP let’s the wish come

View attachment 600849

Congress would have to impeach Lincoln in order to end the war like that. Not only Lincoln, but Hamlin too. There's also the fact that the Congress only met in July 4th because Lincoln called for them. If the situation is different Lincoln would simply not do so and continue to exercise his vaguely defined but extensive war powers, until the Congress assembled in December. Nonetheless, even if Washington falls, I think the Republicans would not surrender but would continue the war from Philadelphia. The pro-peace faction was not really a pro-peace one, but a pro-compromise one that sought to avert war, but once the challenge was issued they did not back from it. The North and the South applauded war, both believing it would be short and glorious. It would not be until later, when the truth that war was well was revealed, that Copperheads appeared. Washington falling certainly gives the rebs a psychological advantage, but I don't think it's quite the coup de grace you seem to think it is. Finally, I've always held that John C. Breckinridge is the best candidate for Confederate President, but Cobb is an interesting possibility too.

The idea that Southern Illinois was going to secede is more of a perception than a reality. While it may be the case that southern Illinois had been settled by Kentuckians and other Southerners, contemporary accounts by civilians and soldiers in the area noted that a strong majority rallied to the Union cause after the Confederates fired at Fort Sumter. There were only 35 people from Southern Illinois that joined the Confederates. Secondly, John Logan, a southern Illinois Democratic congressman, decisively convinced the people of Southern Illinois that their cause was with the north. I can't possibly see South Illinois seceding under these circumstances.

Illinois joining the Confederacy is really impossibly and impractical due to it being disconnected from the South (Unless Kentucky joins as well), but Illinois seceding is possible. There was a politician, Clement Vallandigham, a Copperhead politician, who reportedly conspired to put Copperheads in the offices of Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, and Kentucky, and secede from the Union, to form the Northwestern Confederacy , and part Confederate plan was to liberate Confederate prisoners of war.

Alternatively you could change events in Missouri instead. Governor Jackson supported secession and tried mustering militiamen to raid the arsenal at St. Louis, which would have given the Confederacy several thousand muskets and ammunition. If Jackson had acted more quickly, or Fremont et. al less quickly, the secessionists could have captured it and potentially held onto St. Louis enough for some more sympathizers in southern Illinois to escape across the river and take up arms. I doubt, however, it would be enough to see southern Illinois secede or really contribute more than a few regiments worth of volunteers. Definitely the secessionists holding onto St. Louis would have greater ramifications than the volunteers from Illinois, but who knows how a few extra regiments may have turned the tide at Pea Ridge, Columbus, Henry/Donelson, etc.

Well My point of divergence is a Competent leader Howell Cobb and Vice President Robert toombs
who will not let the South be the ones who started the civil war. Judah Benjamin Is of course the Secret Service Director. I’ve keeping everything in mind with what everyone siad

 

[JWQ]

Union General Winfield Scott Sends Lee to take macon, Georgia’s state capital, and of course the Confederate capital Atlanta. (we all know the first capital was Montgomery Alabama,but Atlanta would have been the best choice as a war capital .)General Joseph Eggleston Johnston Confederate general and chief

Even before Virginia separated from the union Joe Johnson seems to be sympathetic to the confederacy. Well not only is general Joe Johnson administration talented, But he can lead troops when he feels he needs too. General Joseph e Johnson is cautious And Wishes to avoid battles as to Preserve the southern manpower. Joe Johnson orders Fabian strategy conducted by Confederate troops and it is his personal strategy it seems. As Union soldiers march through Georgeia forest,hills, swamps, rugged terrain, Staff general Joseph e Johnson conducts a Fabian strategy. Fabian strategy is a military strategy where pitched battles and frontal assaults are avoided in favor of wearing down an opponent through a war of attrition and indirection.

As Union troops march in Georgia confederate troops with local support use tactics hit and run attacks, Supply raids, and skirmishes against the union army. Sharpshooters use the first true sniper rifle called the Whitworth sniper rifle Taking out the Yankees one by one. Because the south would have time to stock up and prepare confederate soldiers would be Abel to use the Lee Enfield to great effect. Confederate soldiers would actually know how to properly shoot the gun Which was a problem during the Civil War. Lee Enfield has a typical rate If 3-4 rounds a minute even more depending on the users. Confederate soldiers are able to choose their battles which southern dragoons and Calvary prove the most Menacing against the Yankee soldiers.Union logistics prove difficult as it is stretched far plagued against confederate raiders. Diseases from mosquitoes, Alligators, gnats, and the heat waves take a toll as most union Soldiers would be mostly from New England,Upstate New York,the upper Midwest. Only some union soldiers are from the mid Atlantic and central Midwest which is because the CSA chooses not to attack Fort Sumter. (Southerners would at anything be more immune to disease is as they grew up with them) soldiers from cities such as Boston, New York city,Buffalo would be disadvantaged against southerners who regularly hunt. (in reality, most Northerners were farmers or lived in a rural area and only in Calvary were Northerners inferior at) However the union city soldiers would be disadvantaged at irregular warfare. General Lee is further diss hearted as locals and troops fight to defend their homeland and received the news that his good friend Joseph E Johnson is fighting against him. General Lee is further stalled because of Fabian strategy particularly in need of more wagons are on supplies from the sea. Sherman suggest to live off The locals, But Lee refuses unless they willingly sell them.

 

[JWQ]

Joseph Johnson's strategy stalls Union forces buying up precious needed time for the survival of The confederate nation.
In the confederate capital of Atlanta after a most tedious debate, the confederacy agrees to ensure that Cuba will Continue to belong to Spain unless the institution of slavery is abolished in Cuba in for exchange Of the Spanish empire Allegiance against the union. Or if the 1854 black warrior affair turned into an 1854 Spanish-American war Then of course the Cuban people would want to secede and join the Spanish empire again. In exchange, Spain Will be a worthwhile adversary against the union.
, Union General Lee continues to launch a series of frontal attacks against the Confederate Soldiers in Georgia. The Union general Robert e lee continues to win battles pushing the rebels back and capturing the southern economy. He continues however to need reinforcements as his operations in The field are badly depleting Washington DC’s Garissons and the forts in the upper south. General Lee is forced to capture The southern economy and every bit of square mile in the confederacy unless he allows confederate partisans to have their control.
Colonel Sherman advisesGenral Lee to destroy or pillage the economy,but Lee refuses. General Lee alson sends runaway slaves back to their masters And is looking forward to peace.
Union forces take a good chunk of South Carolina before Confederate forces successfully defend South Carolina’s state capital of Columbia.
General Lee allows an opening in Georgia for union troops to invade Florida. This allows union soldiers to march down to Florida and take the state. Waiting for them is General Jefferson Davis major general of the army of Mississippi

In Florida Green Union troops March into Major General Jefferson Davis V formation trap capturing many Yankee soldiers in the battle. Jefferson Davis is then ordered to link up with the main confederate army under Joe Johnston. More union soldiers from General Lee come to take Florida for the union. However, the Confederate militia and a few regular troops skirmish aginast the union army and set up ambushes against the union army. For the most part, light resistance is meet for the union Union forces to proceed to the state capital Tallahassee. Confederates in near Charleston sent reinforcements under General Alfred H. Colquitt and the two armies collided near Ocean Pond in Olustee. Battle of Olustee CSA victory The Yankees retreat some 45 miles back to Jacksonville Florida

Back in Missouri pro confederate Missouri state guard Miltia battle out the union soldiers
The upper south is growing more sympathetic each day as their neighbors are invaded. The upper south begins to convert their industry voluntarily to a war economy to help the confederacy.

Secession conventions are gradually growing in the Confederate state's favor,but the upper south would be discouraged to join the confederate war if they are going to lose the fight.As more and more soldiers/ sailors are being sent to fight down South confederate partisans Strike the blue coats when they are at there weakest points aided by superior intelligence from the spy rings helping the confederacy.Lincoln grows exasperated over the constant missing supplies being smuggled out, raids, ambushes, skirmishes, against union troops near or even in DC . In Pro-war union areas up north banks are even attacked by partisans. Lincoln feels that he has no choice but to suspend habeas corpus under executive order. This causes Virginia,North Carolina, Tennessee to succeed from the union. Delaware, Kentucky,Missouri, Southern Illinois Currently have not succeeded .Kentucky and Missouri form separate CSA/USA governments. with the help of C.S. agents, Secessionists do better In the border states legislation

General Lee though not too far in attacking Atlanta hears the news that is darling Virginia has separated from the union. General Lee orders soldiers back to defend DCas a result. General Lee returns home with his southern troops along with anyone who dose not want to fight anymore .General Lee resign his commission and turns it over to the service to Virginia .Richmond is soon made the capital of the confederacy over the historical reasons it was Made And because union troops are too close to Atlanta

happy Thanksgiving everyone! I will take a break from the timeline for a bit.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I hope you will be able to improve your spelling, punctuation and grammar.

Just why did Spain declare war on the Union? Was it because the Confederates (who are currently losing this war) were threatening Cuba??!!

 

[Gentleman Johnny]

I hope you will be able to improve your spelling, punctuation and grammar.

Just why did Spain declare war on the Union? Was it because the Confederates (who are currently losing this war) were threatening Cuba??!!

I agree. The grammar is killing this for me. It's borderline unreadable. It's an interesting idea but the spelling errors, punctuation, and other writing issues is really making it hard for me to read this. Maybe having someone proofread might help?

 

[JWQ]

I agree. The grammar is killing this for me. It's borderline unreadable. It's an interesting idea but the spelling errors, punctuation, and other writing issues is really making it hard for me to read this. Maybe having someone proofread might help?

Why not?The Potomac is wide enough to for a barrier, so it's just a matter of defending a few bridges.

In any case why would taking Washington matter? The War of 1812 wasn't called off when the British Army burnt it. The government just moves to Philadelphia until enough troops arrive to retake the Capital. Any CS forces that try to hold it will be fighting with their backs to a wide river.

It is not true that before Fort Sumter the majority of northerners favored letting the South go peacefully. There *was* some "good riddance--let them go" talk among some extreme anti-slavery men--but it is unclear how sincere it was. There is a good discussion of this in Stampp, *And the War Came*: "Charles Sumner advocated disunion--but only in private and largely as a kind of intellectual excursion into political theory. In practice he encouraged the movement to prepare the Massachusetts militia to defend Washington and enforce the laws. On November 27 Henry Ward Beecher boldly proclaimed that he cared little whether the South seceded. Two days later he preached a Thanksgiving Day sermon which raised the banners for a war against the Slave Power...For a proponent of peaceful disunion Garrison's Boston *Liberator* became surprisingly agitated about southern 'treason.' It charged that secessionists were determined to provoke a civil war and castigated the Democrats who allegedly opposed the punishment of 'traitors.'" Stampp also shows how Horace Greeley's alleged support of peaceful disunion was so qualified as to be meaningless. Most talk of voluntary disunion among anti-slavery men was really just meant to oppose the idea of saving the Union through yet another cowardly compromise with the Slave Power.

You may be misled by all the Northerners who said they did not advocate "coercion" of the South. Most of these people however supported "enforcment of the laws." To quote an old soc.history.what-if post of mine (sorry for any links that may no longer work):

***

In fairness, Buchanan in the same speech where he said that the federal
government could not force states to remain in the Union (even though he
not only averred that secession was illegal but IMO gave the best single
argument ever made against its legality [1]) did say that the federal
government had the duty to enforce the laws. This puzzling distinction
between "coercion of states" and "enforcement of the laws" was widespread
at the time--Republicans as well as Democrats used it. "Coercion" meant
marching an army into the South to compel the states to rescind their
ordinances of secession, return their Representatives and Senators to
Congress, haul down their flags, etc.; "enforcement of the laws" meant the
US government holding its own forts and other property and collecting the
tariffs. Furthermore, it was held that enforcement of the laws did not
mean using force against states, because federal laws acted upon
individuals (however numerous, and even if they included the governor, the
state legislators, etc.) not states.

For an example of a Republican using the same distinction, see Senator
Lyman Trumbull:

"This phrase, 'coerce a state,' is a phrase calculated to mislead the
public mind...Nobody proposes to declare war against a State. That would
admit at once that the State was out of the Union--a foreign Government.
Of course, we cannot declare war against a State. Nobody proposes to
coerce a State or to convict a State of treason. You cannot arraign a
State for trial; you cannot convict it or punish it; but you can punish
individuals...The Government has the power to coerce and to punish
individuals who violate its laws."
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm

So Buchanan here is at worst guilty of a sophistry--if that is what it
was--[2] shared by Northern Democrats and Republicans alike (and by some
Southerners; Senator Andrew Johnson of Tennessee made remarks to the same
effect). Of course, the Republicans didn't see it that way because they
viewed his words in the context of four years of a blatantly pro-Southern
administration--and also in the context of the rest of the speech, where
Buchanan put the whole blame for the development of sectional conflict on
the North for its agitation of the slavery question.

(Though I think Buchanan was clear enough, I must acknowledge that some
distinguished scholars disagree. Andrew McLaughlin in his *Constitutional
History of the United States* writes "If, as has been asserted, President
Buchanan made a distinction between coercing states and enforcing the
execution of the laws on persons, he succeeded in clothing his utterances
with obscurity." http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm)

[1] "In that mighty struggle between the first intellects of this or any
other country, it never occurred to any individual, either among its
opponents or advocates, to assert or even to intimate that their efforts
were all vain labor, because the moment that any state felt herself
aggrieved she might secede from the Union. What a crushing argument would
this have proved against those who dreaded that the rights of the states
would be endangered by the Constitution!"
http://www.britannica.com/presidents/article-9398250 Indeed, if it had
been assumed at the time of the ratification of the Constitution that
there was a right to secede at will, the vehemence of the opposition to
the new document by the Antifederalists is utterly inexplicable.

[2] The distinction certainly looks like maddening hairsplitting to us
today, and seemed that way to most Southerners at the time. As Kenneth
Stampp wrote in *And the War Came,* it was not much comfort for
secessionists that the Yankee bayonet was a symbol, not of Coercion, but
of Law. Yet the distinction between the federal government acting on
states as such or on individuals did have firm roots in the intentions of
the Framers of the Constitution:

"Soon after the Convention adjourned Madison wrote to Jefferson: 'It was
generally agreed that the objects of the Union could not be secured by any
system founded on the principle of a confederation of Sovereign States. A
voluntary observance of the federal law by all the members could never be
hoped for. A compulsive one could evidently never be reduced to practice,
and if it could, involved equal calamities to the innocent & the guilty,
the necessity of a military force both obnoxious & dangerous, and in
general a scene resembling much more a civil war than the administration
of a regular Government. Hence was embraced the alternative of a
Government which instead of operating, on the States, should operate
without their intervention on the individuals composing them; and hence
the change in the principle and proportion of representation.' October 24,
1787. Madison, Writings (Gaillard Hunt, ed.), V, p. 19. Ellsworth,
addressing the Connecticut convention, said: 'Hence we see how necessary
for the Union is a coercive principle. No man pretends the contrary: we
all see and feel this necessity. The only question is, Shall it be a
coercion of law, or a coercion of arms? [Hamilton had used the same
expression in the Convention at Philadelphia, June 18] ... I am for
coercion by law--that coercion which acts only upon delinquent
individuals." Elliot, Debates, II, p. 197."
http://www.constitution.org/cmt/mclaughlin/chus.htm

The issues is three for an attack on Washington in 1861. One is the confederacy were badly disorganized as well. Two it rained the following day which made it hard to keep up a pursuit. Three the US had already started fortifying and being reinforced by 3 years troops. Stonewall Jackson Brigade was in no shape to advance and he himself was wounded. I also read that the confederate had supply issues as well.

So did the Union. Most of the troops at Bull Run didn't fight (on either side).

Four days after Bull Run a division from Pennsylvania arrived in Washington.

I'm not sure why you keep spelling "Howell Cobb" with an "s" or "'s". His name was Cobb. Not Cobb's or Cobbs. Other than that this is very interesting. I've always been of the opinion that Cobb could have potentially made some better choices than Davis did.

I agree. The grammar is killing this for me. It's borderline unreadable. It's an interesting idea but the spelling errors, punctuation, and other writing issues is really making it hard for me to read this. Maybe having someone proofread might help?

1 on grammar I’ll try to get my laptop signed in again to improve typing .It is hard when you have dyslexia.
2 I need to show it is important further why it is important for the South not to attack Fort Sumter preventing being labeled as the ones who fired the first shots. From the book Timelife civil war series. The book does tells that northern factory’s where even selling weapons to the new Republic. It would be far more so if the confederates had more time and better organization. The Secret Service Is based of of history ,but of course better organized,better lead and much more official in my timeline. In other words it much more true in my alternative history.
“”After the news of Fort Sumter 20 million northerns were Stunned,frightened,and above all outradged by the attacks on the American flag an angry mob of New Yorker storm the offices of the pro southern New York Herald and under threat burning everything inside. “”

Fort Sumter United northerners in there cause to defend the union Similar ,but to a much different effect was true when Japan attacked peril harbor except not one single American died during battle of Fort Sumter.As a American Missourian who would feel nothing,but torn in this war . I say let the south go and let’s be at peace.(Before the attack on Fort Sumter) I say follow Winfield Scott’s advice and surrender the forts as a gesture of goodwill. Fort Sumter can’t be held for long ,because they would be overwhelmed with artillery. Slavery was at anything protected by the constitution. The constitution was bent over backward over slavery and Lincoln at first favored a amendment to protect slavery. If the south choose not to attack Fort Sumter there would be much wider sympathy,but less people willingly to take this republic seriously. In turn less people are willing to let their country go with a fight

This book American nations largely tells minus yankeedom the rest of the USA was willing to let the 7 states go in peace . Horace GreeleyIf the Cotton States shall become satisfied that they can do better out of the Union than in it, we insist on letting them go in peace. The right to secede may be a revolutionary one, but it exists nevertheless ... And whenever a considerable section of our Union shall deliberately resolve to go out, we shall resist all coercive measures designed to keep it in. We hope never to live in a republic whereof one section is pinned to the residue by bayonets.[68]

. If Lincoln had declared a state of rebellion ,but chose to invade the C.S. only by sea. He still could have lost the upper south,but I’m going with the most cautious route that Lincoln could convince them to stay in the union for a while.once Lincoln would the sighn the illegal executive order of suspension of habeas corpus this would butterfly with the upper south’s session.
Virginia could not tolerate this blank violation of civil liberties and the constitution.The midlands of course would send troops,but probably most soldiers would be mainly from New York,New England the upper Midwest and some troops elsewhere . My timeline is all about competent president who very well could change a lot of things That in inCompton president Jefferson Davis did. So in my timeline Beauregard is tied up with the coastal defenses. General Lee would have been the best pick to lead troops near Washington DC. Historically spies sent messages containing critical information regarding Union troop movements . From Bevin Alexander a military historian So despite Joe Johnson brilliant move in bringing his army to cancel out patterns forces as a factor in the battle, Beauregard had failed to concentrate against the union army. Most of Beauregard’s forces was positioned far from the crucial left flank and only Johnson recently arrived brigades had any hopes of supporting shanks Evans. Beauregard’s planning their forehead provide little that could make success possible for a “confederate victory their only hope would be potential errors of McDowell. Furthermore the creole general almost lost the entire battle . Beauregard had organized his army poorly and placed his troops in dangerous exposed possession. The flaw of Beauregard‘s plan we’re not only that required McDowell’s full cooperation, but also General Beauregard had not given the five brigades on the east clear instructions on what they were to do and Had not appointed an overall commander for this wing .

Just when it seems like a total union victory Stonewall Jackson brings reinforcements saving the day for the confederates .Here’s a good clip to help understand The situation. Ah this song will be even more so true if General Lee was the commander of the battle of bull run.In fact Stonewall Jackson said that we have whipped them! Jackson shouted to Jefferson Davis who wXpresent on the battlefield that they ran like sheep! Give me 5000 fresh troops and I will be in Washington city tomorrow morning!

Back to Bevin Alexander Book Had Jefferson Davis agreed to send troops with Thomas Jackson He would to size the capital who had only about 5,000 troops guarding it. Union soldiers had retreated the very same route they came from in actual history. Bevin Alexander's book According to the book regarding Johnson and Beauregard did in fact believe he had an opportunity to push on from Manassas, as evidenced by the orders they sent to advance after the fighting it. The problem was that neither general went in person to deliver the orders to urge the troops forward at this key moment. Consequently, the confederate advances were called off by rumors that were false and no check for accuracy of the presence of enemy troops.) In reality In fact had confederate troops advanced to Centreville at that point the union soldiers would be unable to stop the Confederates attacking. McDowell ordered his troops to retreat in actual history. The confederate should have sent their troops to threaten both flanks of the Union army. If the Confederate soldiers had only even just fire blanks this retreat would have turned into a full panic rout -{Alexander-porter }From Johnson and Buhl, volume 1, 192 tells their tents, provisions, baggage, and letters from home or upon the banks of the pope Potomac, and no power could’ve stopped them.
Two hours of daylight remaining, and that night the moon was nearly full. The Confederates could’ve pursued the enemy all through the night.But none of their senior leaders thought of consolidating victory and winning the war, not Davis not Beauregard Not Johnston they spent the last hours of daylight touring the battlefield. (Time-life tells they were exhausted as much as the federals were.) It wouldn’t be necessary to pursue them throughout the night .If Jackson soldiers been sent to block the retreat.
Had the city itself been attacked
General George B McClellan Tells of Washington's defenses before he made the city impregnable with fortifications.
.I “”found no preparations whatsoever for the defense, not even to the extent of putting troops in military possessions. A determined attack would doubtless have carried Arlington Heights and placed the city at the mercy of a battery of rifled guns.If the sessionist attached any military value to the possession of Washington, they committed their greatest error in not following up the victory of bull run “”

Cobb Confederate revolution timeline.
Beauregard will be defending the costal forts In Florida. General Lee instead of Beauregard will be the General commanding the Confederate Army of the Potomac.President Cobb knows that Lee is the best choice to help lead troops to victory. Under proper planning confederates make sure to bring boats to cross the Potomac River.General Lee's major confederate army command would encourage union veterans to join the southern cause in his ranks. General Braxton Brag training commander of the confederate army has brought hardcore discipline to many of the confederate soldiers who are under General Lee or Johnston command.The confederates also have some veterans from the Georgia campaign from both sides . However there are many green soldiers commanded by both sides. The Union soldiers their uniforms pressed and under full parade dress uniforms glistening in the hot sun attack the confederate position.
It is also Unlikely that General Lee would have almost lost the battle, as he is an Abel Tactician. Johnson and Lee were both good friends leading to full Coordination this which would cancel out confederates failing to concentrate their forces
General Lee and Johnston defenses in turn are fully supported during the enemy attacks Keeping a strong defensive position.Even if Lee had almost lost the battle (which is very unlikely.even doubtful that he would put them in dangerously exposed position in a disorganized fashion as Beaugard did ) If this occurred Stonewall Jackson would still be Abel to save the day for the confederate army.

Stonewall Jackson informs president Cobb who is observing the battle. “ We have whipped them! They ran like sheep! Give me 5,000 fresh men,and I will be in Washington city tomorrow morning‘’Cobb’s grants Thomas Jackson request for troops. Jackson soldiers briskly move straight up to Centerville cutting of nearly all of the retreating soldiers. President Cobb observing the situation orders confederate troops (if General Lee not had already not done so ) orders confederate soldiers
to cross bull run through either balls ford or stone bridge and continue to pursue the Yankees. To keep the soldiers better organized General Robert e Lee comes out and inspire the confederate soldiers to push their energy pursuing the enemy.

General Lee reminds the soldiers that pressing on the enemy troops could very well possibly end the war at this moment.
Cobb orders Johnson to gallop rabidly back at Mitchell’s ford and personally send the unengaged reserves straight to Centerville.Johnston is given a order by the president and can’t make any excuse of inexperienced troops or disorganization.
Had the confederates advanced A threat upon either flank would have doubtlessly been sufficient without a need for hard fighting as the Union soldiers are routed in a panic.

Jackson forces arrive cutting off nearly all of the panicked soldiers forcing many of the Yankees to surrender.General Irvin McDowell was so caught up in the battle that he completely forgot his reserves in actual history. He would likely have been completely panicked had the confederates routed his army. The Confederate soldiers are just as exhausted as the Union army and even the fresh reserves are still tired ,however Confederate commanders will push their men until they can not physically complete the task.With much of the union army captured General Lee offers Gracious surrender terms to the union army. General Lee surrender terms are allowing most Irene McDowell soldiers to be exchanged or be allowed to return home under General Lee given date .Stonewall Jackson 5,000 strong army crosses the Potomac River using the ford aided with fresh reinforcements crossing the River by boat or using the fords. During the night however it starts to rain gradually ending all Crossings across the Potomac

Jackson soldiers would need to destroy the city’s railway halting the cities communication/food supplies forcing a evacuation. Abe Lincoln a strong man of moral integrity orders civilians to first evacuate.union forces are equal to the confederate army. It is possible That The confederates could have managed to capture the Union government. This book certainly believed so at least.The soldiers have been given strict orders to capture the government buildings as a Bargain chip for there independence

 

[David T]

Citing Greeley for the supposed willingness of the North to let the South go in peace is fallacious for at least two reasons.. First Greeley was notoriously an eccentric, hardly typical of Republicans (or anyone else). Second, Greeley put so many qualifications around the right to secede as to make it meaningless. Again I'll quote Kenneth Stampp, And the War Came:

 

[JWQ]

Citing Greeley for the supposed willingness of the North to let the South go in peace is fallacious for at least two reasons.. First Greeley was notoriously an eccentric, hardly typical of Republicans (or anyone else). Second, Greeley put so many qualifications around the right to secede as to make it meaningless. Again I'll quote Kenneth Stampp, And the War Came:
View attachment 603201

View attachment 603202

Not only that I can’t even read the quotes from the screenshot. Where could I purchase the book you described?
I have not said that there won’t be any union soldiers enlisting in the army from places like Indiana and Illinois. I however said that there reasonably would be less recruits. You certainly ignore the effects of attacking fort Sumter.

do you really think the north would be as united as it was if the Confederates did not attack fort Sumter?

I have heard arguments that the session was unconstitutional in that it was constitutional and that it was legal or illegal. In truth I don’t care.
Many people today would probably prefer to fight a war between other Americans then against foreign terrorist that it so seems it seems.

Citing Greeley for the supposed willingness of the North to let the South go in peace is fallacious for at least two reasons.. First Greeley was notoriously an eccentric, hardly typical of Republicans (or anyone else). Second, Greeley put so many qualifications around the right to secede as to make it meaningless. Again I'll quote Kenneth Stampp, And the War Came:
View attachment 603201

View attachment 603202

I don’t think I can ignore a author’s book if I can’t properly see those words to read. I don’t even know if you are taking his words out of context either. Yet you seem to ignore the public outcry of the battle of Fort Sumter . 1 of your arguments I recall was if the confederates would close down the Mississippi economy. Which why the H would they? When New Orleans,Memphis,Kentucky, and more of the southern areas depended on that economy! Good leaders who are not Jefferson Davis don’t let themselves be provoked. (Lincoln cabinet did warn him this would cause war and it provoked the south into firing the first shots.

Jefferson Davis stupidly believed that They where going to back down after attacking a federal fort.

Lincoln will be forced to Start war meaning he not Davis would be directly responsible for those economy’s like Southern Indiana ,Kentucky.southern ,Ohio southern, Illinois Missouri, Iowa and those other states For their economy being destroyed. Whether this is a contradiction or not I admire Lincolns personality.

I do think it is possibly Lincoln would have let the south go .My reasoning is this

1. Use of force: Lincoln promised that there would be no use of force against the South, unless it proved necessary for him to fulfill his obligation to "hold, occupy, and possess the property and places" belonging to the federal government, and to collect legal duties and imposts. However, if the South chose to actively take up arms against the Government, their insurrection would meet a firm and forceful response.
2. But Lincoln being a dedicated unionist would probably not let them go peacefully. Probably the very things he thought he held most dear preserving the union he failed at with forcing Americans to go to war with each other only expanded session. I’m not saying anyone here is a fool nor Lincoln. But the best thing to win over a separation movement is have concessions that are worthy.
3. 1850 compromise at anything completely benefited the north. The fugitive slave law helped Northerners to begin the question if slavery was immoral? I recall that it also benefited the anti-slavery movement.
4. 
   The final thing Constitution does not directly talk about the session and it certainly isn’t clear about it.It is kinda immoral to not let a territory or state go if they want to leave
5. Thomas Jefferson did not argue for secession but he did argue for nullification. Which legally states at least have the right to not enforce federal laws.
   
   I have her arguments that’s the session is constitutional unconstitutional legal and illegal.I’m not going to get into that that because that argument can go either way.

Many people were angry,sadden over session. Not just Northerners but Southerners .Brag, Jefferson Davis Jefferson Davis General Lee, Albert Sidney Johnston and Mosby . Many Southerners opposed to session Too. it’s quite a different thing to be angry about the session then go into war against against your fellow American neighbors. The United States are a a great nation . Out of many 1