It could just be WW3 broke out in 50s/early 60s, so soviet don't have enough ICBMs to hit UK.
Ghastly Victories: The United States in the World Wars
- Thread starter RamscoopRaider
- Start date
That would work, especially if it's a mid-50s wars. Early enough that if there's no version of Korea TTL then the US and co have likely really wound down military spending. Thus leading to(temporary) Soviet control of the European mainland.
Part 5-7 Into the Abyss
RamscoopRaider
Donor
…The Italain assault on Ethiopia occurred with incredible speed and violence. Sanna’s goal was to make the conquest a fait accompli that would be rapidly accepted by the world at large and to do that he held nothing back. Two columns each of 150,000 advanced from Eritrea and Somalia respectively while the Italain Air Force struck marshaling areas. Gas was used against Ethiopian positions from the first day, taking advantage of the fact that the Ethiopians had no chemical protection.
Emperor Haile attempted to raise an Army of 800,000 to oppose this, however only 300, 000 could be mobilized and many lacked firearms, and what they did have were mostly obsolete. Worse they had no radios and communication was only by courier, making large scale coordination effectively impossible. Attempts to use plane couriers to mitigate this were halted by the destruction of the Ethiopian Air Corps on the ground at Dessie a month into the war.
The uncoordinated and underequipped feudal armies of Ethiopia were no match for the Italain army and were destroyed piecemeal. Adowa was captured in three days, the rest of Tigray province took a month. In the South the Italians advanced 100 miles before they outraced their logistics. It was that more than anything was what limited the Italain advance, the only thing Sanna wanted less than a prolonged war was another Adowa, and to prevent that the Italain Army could not afford to outrun its base of supply.
This slow methodical advance however gave time for international reactions to occur. Condemnations occurred from day one, however Sanna expected that, words were just words, it was actions that mattered. At the start there was very little, but as the war drew on many looked to Britain and France, the most prominent nations in Europe and the League of Nations for leadership. Despite public opinion the British and French were reluctant to issue more than mealy mouthed condemnations at the beginning. A month into the war, as news of Italain atrocities headlined every paper they were forced to act by public opinion. The British and French introduced an official condemnation of Italian behavior in the League of Nations.
Sanna was somewhat angry at the perceived betrayal, but was willing to accept it, it was not like a League of Nations condemnation did anything to Japan after all. He simply argued that Italy had done nothing wrong. His use of gas was legal, in that Ethiopia never signed the treaty banning it and said treaty required both sides be signatories to be in force, and a proportional retaliation for Ethiopian violations of the laws of war. The Laws of War he claimed were traditionally enforced by reprisal, and Ethiopian misuse of the Red Cross and use of expanding ammunition were war crimes. He claimed that he would cease to use gas when the Ethiopians ceased to do both, knowing they could at the very least not afford to stop using any of their limited ammunition supply. He furthermore emphasized that Ethiopia allowed slavery and committed enough barbarities not to be worth any sympathy. Privately he pointedly reminded the British and French of their deal, and made a point of talking with Hitler over the phone to emphasize this.
In an attempt to preserve the Florentine Front the British and French came up with a scheme where Italy would gain much of Ethiopia, an extraterritorial corridor besides that, and the remainder would become a Protectorate of Italy. Sanna was willing to accept this compromise, however before he could signal it, the compromise had been made public. The British and French publics were outranged and forced their governments to disavow the scheme, thus ending the best chance to preserve the united front against Hitler.
Six weeks after the condemnation and five weeks after the abortive Anglo-French protectorate scheme the League of Nations finally got around to voting on sanctions against Italy. Britain and France voted for the sanctions and their influence enable the sanctions to narrowly pass. This action made Sanna furious. In response he then revealed that the invasion had been authorized by Britain and France, and that they were breaking a deal, with the Hungarian ambassador to Italy revealing he had been a witness while “working as a secretary” for one Lira. The British and French governments fervently denied this and redoubled their condemnations to avoid public displeasure, completely ruining any chance to make up with Sanna.
Despite these sanctions the Ethiopians were already doomed. Ten weeks into the war the only coherent Ethiopian forces was effectively the Imperial Guard defending the Northern city of Dessie. There Emperor Haile had his headquarters, and there he was forced to make a stand.
The battle of Dessie lasted for two weeks, so long mainly due to Italain difficulty in bringing sufficient ammunition forwards. The outcome however was never in doubt, a single division of light infantry, even an elite one, could not stand against multiple corps for long, especially given the superiority in artillery and armor possessed by the Italians. The Imperial Guard was annihilated and Emperor Haile barely escaped to Addis Ababa
The Italians paused for two weeks after Dessie to sort out their logistics. Then Marshal Caviglia launched a grand mechanized lunge on Addis Ababa. With nothing in the way the armored column moved quickly and arrived at the city in ten days. Rather than the last stand they expected Emperor Haile had fled the city with the state gold reserves, leaving his cousin to run the nation. Rather than fight regent Imru Haile Selassie surrendered the city and the Italians staged a triumphal march through the city.
Emperor Haile, while successfully escaping the capital was forced to abandon the gold reserves after Italain bombers disabled his train. Travelling by camel he escaped to French Djibouti and went into exile working to raise sympathy and funds for resistance abroad…
…The capture of Addis Ababa on July 25th marked the traditional end of the war. However Italy had only captured half the country by that point. It would be two years before they controlled all of it, and even then Black Lion guerilla fighters would continue to resist them…
…The League of Nations embargo ended on August 30th and very quickly most nations began to recognize the Italain conquest of Ethiopia. Only the USSR would refuse to recognize it by the start of WWII…
…After the conquest of Ethiopia Sanna had a grand Romanesque triumph staged in honor of the victory on September 20th, with Marshal Cavigilia accorded the highest honors. He had one unique flourish however. Rather than the traditional slave whispering into the victorious general’s ears “memento mori” or “remember you are mortal”, he had a dozen of Italy’s best orators, dressed as Roman Lictors, accompany him and give speeches reminding the country that this victory was due to hard work and that they should not grow arrogant from it…
…To punish the British and French for their betrayal shortly after the Embargo Sanna made an agreement with Adolf Hitler, one whose consequences he hoped would remind them why they agreed to the Florentine Front in the first place…
-Into the Abyss: The leadup to the Second World War, Harper and Brothers, New York, 2009
Emperor Haile attempted to raise an Army of 800,000 to oppose this, however only 300, 000 could be mobilized and many lacked firearms, and what they did have were mostly obsolete. Worse they had no radios and communication was only by courier, making large scale coordination effectively impossible. Attempts to use plane couriers to mitigate this were halted by the destruction of the Ethiopian Air Corps on the ground at Dessie a month into the war.
The uncoordinated and underequipped feudal armies of Ethiopia were no match for the Italain army and were destroyed piecemeal. Adowa was captured in three days, the rest of Tigray province took a month. In the South the Italians advanced 100 miles before they outraced their logistics. It was that more than anything was what limited the Italain advance, the only thing Sanna wanted less than a prolonged war was another Adowa, and to prevent that the Italain Army could not afford to outrun its base of supply.
This slow methodical advance however gave time for international reactions to occur. Condemnations occurred from day one, however Sanna expected that, words were just words, it was actions that mattered. At the start there was very little, but as the war drew on many looked to Britain and France, the most prominent nations in Europe and the League of Nations for leadership. Despite public opinion the British and French were reluctant to issue more than mealy mouthed condemnations at the beginning. A month into the war, as news of Italain atrocities headlined every paper they were forced to act by public opinion. The British and French introduced an official condemnation of Italian behavior in the League of Nations.
Sanna was somewhat angry at the perceived betrayal, but was willing to accept it, it was not like a League of Nations condemnation did anything to Japan after all. He simply argued that Italy had done nothing wrong. His use of gas was legal, in that Ethiopia never signed the treaty banning it and said treaty required both sides be signatories to be in force, and a proportional retaliation for Ethiopian violations of the laws of war. The Laws of War he claimed were traditionally enforced by reprisal, and Ethiopian misuse of the Red Cross and use of expanding ammunition were war crimes. He claimed that he would cease to use gas when the Ethiopians ceased to do both, knowing they could at the very least not afford to stop using any of their limited ammunition supply. He furthermore emphasized that Ethiopia allowed slavery and committed enough barbarities not to be worth any sympathy. Privately he pointedly reminded the British and French of their deal, and made a point of talking with Hitler over the phone to emphasize this.
In an attempt to preserve the Florentine Front the British and French came up with a scheme where Italy would gain much of Ethiopia, an extraterritorial corridor besides that, and the remainder would become a Protectorate of Italy. Sanna was willing to accept this compromise, however before he could signal it, the compromise had been made public. The British and French publics were outranged and forced their governments to disavow the scheme, thus ending the best chance to preserve the united front against Hitler.
Six weeks after the condemnation and five weeks after the abortive Anglo-French protectorate scheme the League of Nations finally got around to voting on sanctions against Italy. Britain and France voted for the sanctions and their influence enable the sanctions to narrowly pass. This action made Sanna furious. In response he then revealed that the invasion had been authorized by Britain and France, and that they were breaking a deal, with the Hungarian ambassador to Italy revealing he had been a witness while “working as a secretary” for one Lira. The British and French governments fervently denied this and redoubled their condemnations to avoid public displeasure, completely ruining any chance to make up with Sanna.
Despite these sanctions the Ethiopians were already doomed. Ten weeks into the war the only coherent Ethiopian forces was effectively the Imperial Guard defending the Northern city of Dessie. There Emperor Haile had his headquarters, and there he was forced to make a stand.
The battle of Dessie lasted for two weeks, so long mainly due to Italain difficulty in bringing sufficient ammunition forwards. The outcome however was never in doubt, a single division of light infantry, even an elite one, could not stand against multiple corps for long, especially given the superiority in artillery and armor possessed by the Italians. The Imperial Guard was annihilated and Emperor Haile barely escaped to Addis Ababa
The Italians paused for two weeks after Dessie to sort out their logistics. Then Marshal Caviglia launched a grand mechanized lunge on Addis Ababa. With nothing in the way the armored column moved quickly and arrived at the city in ten days. Rather than the last stand they expected Emperor Haile had fled the city with the state gold reserves, leaving his cousin to run the nation. Rather than fight regent Imru Haile Selassie surrendered the city and the Italians staged a triumphal march through the city.
Emperor Haile, while successfully escaping the capital was forced to abandon the gold reserves after Italain bombers disabled his train. Travelling by camel he escaped to French Djibouti and went into exile working to raise sympathy and funds for resistance abroad…
…The capture of Addis Ababa on July 25th marked the traditional end of the war. However Italy had only captured half the country by that point. It would be two years before they controlled all of it, and even then Black Lion guerilla fighters would continue to resist them…
…The League of Nations embargo ended on August 30th and very quickly most nations began to recognize the Italain conquest of Ethiopia. Only the USSR would refuse to recognize it by the start of WWII…
…After the conquest of Ethiopia Sanna had a grand Romanesque triumph staged in honor of the victory on September 20th, with Marshal Cavigilia accorded the highest honors. He had one unique flourish however. Rather than the traditional slave whispering into the victorious general’s ears “memento mori” or “remember you are mortal”, he had a dozen of Italy’s best orators, dressed as Roman Lictors, accompany him and give speeches reminding the country that this victory was due to hard work and that they should not grow arrogant from it…
…To punish the British and French for their betrayal shortly after the Embargo Sanna made an agreement with Adolf Hitler, one whose consequences he hoped would remind them why they agreed to the Florentine Front in the first place…
-Into the Abyss: The leadup to the Second World War, Harper and Brothers, New York, 2009
Why do I get the feeling that WWII is going up against the Soviets with WWIII being against the Nazis?
Well bugger. So Sanna tries to get legit aligned with the Entente , but that pact falls out much more intensely than OTL and Sanna aligns towards Hitler anyway... the big question is if this is an outright alliance, or if it is something smaller that nonetheless manages to frighten the Entente anyway.
Part 5-8 Naval History
RamscoopRaider
Donor
…With the recovery from the depression underway naval building accelerated as the early thirties transitioned to the mid 30’s…
…After the fourth Panzerschiff Germany laid down a pair of light battleships on the model of the French or Italians, though somewhat larger. These vessels mounted 9 30.5cm guns in three triples, along with 12 15cm and 14 10.5cm secondaries in twins, could make 31 knots and were very well armored for their size. Officially they were 30,000 tons in practice they were closer to 35,000.
These battleships were to be escorted by a set of five 12,500 ton heavy cruisers. These cruisers however, despite only mounting 8 20.3 cm guns in a conventional arrangement, along with 12 10.5cm secondaries, a 32 knot speed, and moderate armor, ended up displacing over 18,000 tons standard due to inefficiency in the German design office. A light carrier half sister of these vessels was planned to give Germany a start in naval aviation…
…Upon the realization that their rivals were also building light battleships at about the same time France and Italy both changed their plans. Rather than four light battleships and four heavy, they decided on two light and six heavy. Again for reasons of convergent evolution both designs ended up as fairly similar adaptations of their existing light battleships.
The French design retained the all forward arrangement and upgunned to 380mm guns with 9 155mm and 12 100mm secondaries. Speed was increased to 32 knots and armor increased to resist 15” shellfire on 40,000 tons displacement.
The Italians similarly scaled up their design to 45,000 tons and 15” guns. 9 152mm and 16 100mm secondary guns were carried, the former all on the centerline in a superfiring arrangement reversed from the main battery. The Italian ships were two knots slower than their French counterparts, but had more powerful guns and an unique armor arrangement. Namely they had an additional 75mm plate of armor held in front of their main belts to tear the armor piercing caps off enemy shells of up to 15 inches so that the main belt could bounce them.
Both the French and Italians had considered 16” guns, but rejected them due to reasons of development time. If they were to be incorporated both navies thought it would be on the seventh and eight units they were planning to build…
…After years of neglect the USSR started building large warships again. Not able to start constructing capital ships immediately they started with a set of destroyer leaders, followed by a set of 7500 ton cruisers armed with 9 180mm guns. These cruisers were lightly armored but theoretically capable of 37 knots, in practice this turned out to be 35 knots given they were around 700 to 1000 tons overweight, with a main battery with both horrible rates of fire and poor barrel life…
…The United Kingdom had perhaps the thorniest situation of any of the great naval powers. They had the largest fleet, yet also the largest commitments, worse they had ten capital ships that needed immediate replacement. This along with tight budgets dominated their thinking. Thus they were operating on the assumption that they would have to work within the existing WNT limitations and would do their best to tighten them further.
It was this thinking that dominated the planning process for replacing their capital ships. They needed to start immediately once the holiday expired, but at the same time they had to work within the limits of the treaty. Given that they had about 280,000 tons to work with, that translated to 6 45,000 ton ships, 7 40,000 ton ships, 8 35,000 ton ships or 9 30,000 ton ships.
The 45,000 ton ships if built would be 16” fast battleships, the 40,000 ton ships either 16” fast battleships of 15” battlecruisers, the 35,000 ton ships 15” or 14” fast battleships, 15” or 14” battlecruisers or 16” slow battleships and the 30,000 ton ships 15” or 14” battlecruisers or 14” fast battleships of 15” or 16” slow battleships. Given the proliferation of fast capital ships and large cruisers the slow battleship options were discarded as unfitting of the current strategic environment. Similarly given the need for quantity to replace ten ships, the 45,000 ton option was removed. The decision by both the Italian and French to move to building larger capital ships and the expected renewal of Japanese capital ship building made any 30,000 ton ship liable to be too weak.
This left the options at a 40,000 ton 16” fast battleship, a 35,000 ton 15” or 14” fast battleship or a 35,000 ton 15” or 14” battlecruiser, the difference between the fast battleship and battlecruiser being around 3 knots of speed and paid for by a reduced main battery. Given the desire to stuff the genie back into the bottle and return to a lower tonnage limit, 35,000 tons was chosen. 15” was chosen as the caliber of main armament to give a better chance of hurting the 16” armed ships that currently existed. There was an argument that the Americans were more likely to agree to 14” as a limitation as they had guns of that caliber, but that was ignored given American intentions to design a new gun for their new ships. This left a choice between a battlecruiser or a battleship, given that the RN had 7 battlecruisers and 10 battleships it was retaining, it was decided that battleships were the greater need…
…The USN had taken advantage of FDRs generosity in allocating emergency relief funds in 1933 and 1934 to fund a trio of 25,000 ton carriers and the remainder of the 10,000 ton 6” cruisers they were authorized. Thus 1935 saw them lay down the first 3200 ton “scout cruiser”, that was totally not a destroyer leader…
…USN capital ship building assumed that the 6 14”/45 armed battleships would be replaced by a quartet of 16” armed battlecruisers as soon as the building holiday expired. This would be followed by the rest of the standards being replaced by 6 16” battleships, which would follow a 1 for 1 replacement of the existing ships as they aged out. Intention for the battlecruisers was for 33 knot ships with 9 16” guns in a 3x3 arrangement, the battleships would be 28 knot ships with a thicker belt and a fourth turret. Both would have 20 5” DP guns as a secondary armament and be built out of Special Treatment Steel to save weight and increase strength.
The United States gave no thought to the idea of constructing smaller capital ships, having tried that in 1904 with the Mississippi class pre-Dreadnoughts and not liked it. They would build the largest possible warships they could do, anything less would be poor value for money and would have difficulty with whatever they thought Japan was going to build next…
…After the Typhoon incident of 1933 the Japanese were forced to refit much of their construction. In trying to put as much firepower on as little tonnage as possible they had left their ships structurally weak and top heavy, upon encounter with a Typhoon several ships suffered severe damage and a destroyer capsized but remained afloat. This led to a great deal of work in reinforcing existing ships and modifying those under construction. It also led to the demise of the idea of using “600 ton” torpedo boats as unlimited destroyer substitutes.
Instead the IJN looked at the relative success of the “Special Type Gunboat” in riding out the heavy seas and decided to build a fleet of “shadow destroyers”, gunboats that could be rapidly converted into destroyers in the leadup to a war. This would go with the fleet of “shadow carriers” they were building from fast tenders and subsidized merchantmen who would also be converted into the leadup to war and complement the two fleet carriers of the Shoukaku class they had built and the two officially 22,500 ton Taiho class they were currently building…
…As the Second Wilmington Naval Conference approached the IJN made what in hindsight looks like a foolish decision from the outside but made perfect sense when one considered internal politics. The IJA was growing and had gained in prestige from its establishing of a protectorate in Manchuria, and the subsequent expansion of that protectorate and neutralization of KMT activities in parts of Northern China. Thus in an increasingly nationalistic time the IJA had been seen as standing up for Japan and received budgetary increases to match.
The IJN had to do something to gain the same public perception and justify budget increases as not to be left behind in influence by their rivals. Thus they made the decision that unless they received serious concessions at the coming Second Wilmington Conference they would withdraw from the Naval Treaty system…
-Excerpt from Naval History Between the Wars, Harper & Brothers, New York, 2007
Okay another naval update, not really a timeline progression one, sue me I wanted to write something fun after 19 pages about a coffee shop chain that will not be named
…After the fourth Panzerschiff Germany laid down a pair of light battleships on the model of the French or Italians, though somewhat larger. These vessels mounted 9 30.5cm guns in three triples, along with 12 15cm and 14 10.5cm secondaries in twins, could make 31 knots and were very well armored for their size. Officially they were 30,000 tons in practice they were closer to 35,000.
These battleships were to be escorted by a set of five 12,500 ton heavy cruisers. These cruisers however, despite only mounting 8 20.3 cm guns in a conventional arrangement, along with 12 10.5cm secondaries, a 32 knot speed, and moderate armor, ended up displacing over 18,000 tons standard due to inefficiency in the German design office. A light carrier half sister of these vessels was planned to give Germany a start in naval aviation…
…Upon the realization that their rivals were also building light battleships at about the same time France and Italy both changed their plans. Rather than four light battleships and four heavy, they decided on two light and six heavy. Again for reasons of convergent evolution both designs ended up as fairly similar adaptations of their existing light battleships.
The French design retained the all forward arrangement and upgunned to 380mm guns with 9 155mm and 12 100mm secondaries. Speed was increased to 32 knots and armor increased to resist 15” shellfire on 40,000 tons displacement.
The Italians similarly scaled up their design to 45,000 tons and 15” guns. 9 152mm and 16 100mm secondary guns were carried, the former all on the centerline in a superfiring arrangement reversed from the main battery. The Italian ships were two knots slower than their French counterparts, but had more powerful guns and an unique armor arrangement. Namely they had an additional 75mm plate of armor held in front of their main belts to tear the armor piercing caps off enemy shells of up to 15 inches so that the main belt could bounce them.
Both the French and Italians had considered 16” guns, but rejected them due to reasons of development time. If they were to be incorporated both navies thought it would be on the seventh and eight units they were planning to build…
…After years of neglect the USSR started building large warships again. Not able to start constructing capital ships immediately they started with a set of destroyer leaders, followed by a set of 7500 ton cruisers armed with 9 180mm guns. These cruisers were lightly armored but theoretically capable of 37 knots, in practice this turned out to be 35 knots given they were around 700 to 1000 tons overweight, with a main battery with both horrible rates of fire and poor barrel life…
…The United Kingdom had perhaps the thorniest situation of any of the great naval powers. They had the largest fleet, yet also the largest commitments, worse they had ten capital ships that needed immediate replacement. This along with tight budgets dominated their thinking. Thus they were operating on the assumption that they would have to work within the existing WNT limitations and would do their best to tighten them further.
It was this thinking that dominated the planning process for replacing their capital ships. They needed to start immediately once the holiday expired, but at the same time they had to work within the limits of the treaty. Given that they had about 280,000 tons to work with, that translated to 6 45,000 ton ships, 7 40,000 ton ships, 8 35,000 ton ships or 9 30,000 ton ships.
The 45,000 ton ships if built would be 16” fast battleships, the 40,000 ton ships either 16” fast battleships of 15” battlecruisers, the 35,000 ton ships 15” or 14” fast battleships, 15” or 14” battlecruisers or 16” slow battleships and the 30,000 ton ships 15” or 14” battlecruisers or 14” fast battleships of 15” or 16” slow battleships. Given the proliferation of fast capital ships and large cruisers the slow battleship options were discarded as unfitting of the current strategic environment. Similarly given the need for quantity to replace ten ships, the 45,000 ton option was removed. The decision by both the Italian and French to move to building larger capital ships and the expected renewal of Japanese capital ship building made any 30,000 ton ship liable to be too weak.
This left the options at a 40,000 ton 16” fast battleship, a 35,000 ton 15” or 14” fast battleship or a 35,000 ton 15” or 14” battlecruiser, the difference between the fast battleship and battlecruiser being around 3 knots of speed and paid for by a reduced main battery. Given the desire to stuff the genie back into the bottle and return to a lower tonnage limit, 35,000 tons was chosen. 15” was chosen as the caliber of main armament to give a better chance of hurting the 16” armed ships that currently existed. There was an argument that the Americans were more likely to agree to 14” as a limitation as they had guns of that caliber, but that was ignored given American intentions to design a new gun for their new ships. This left a choice between a battlecruiser or a battleship, given that the RN had 7 battlecruisers and 10 battleships it was retaining, it was decided that battleships were the greater need…
…The USN had taken advantage of FDRs generosity in allocating emergency relief funds in 1933 and 1934 to fund a trio of 25,000 ton carriers and the remainder of the 10,000 ton 6” cruisers they were authorized. Thus 1935 saw them lay down the first 3200 ton “scout cruiser”, that was totally not a destroyer leader…
…USN capital ship building assumed that the 6 14”/45 armed battleships would be replaced by a quartet of 16” armed battlecruisers as soon as the building holiday expired. This would be followed by the rest of the standards being replaced by 6 16” battleships, which would follow a 1 for 1 replacement of the existing ships as they aged out. Intention for the battlecruisers was for 33 knot ships with 9 16” guns in a 3x3 arrangement, the battleships would be 28 knot ships with a thicker belt and a fourth turret. Both would have 20 5” DP guns as a secondary armament and be built out of Special Treatment Steel to save weight and increase strength.
The United States gave no thought to the idea of constructing smaller capital ships, having tried that in 1904 with the Mississippi class pre-Dreadnoughts and not liked it. They would build the largest possible warships they could do, anything less would be poor value for money and would have difficulty with whatever they thought Japan was going to build next…
…After the Typhoon incident of 1933 the Japanese were forced to refit much of their construction. In trying to put as much firepower on as little tonnage as possible they had left their ships structurally weak and top heavy, upon encounter with a Typhoon several ships suffered severe damage and a destroyer capsized but remained afloat. This led to a great deal of work in reinforcing existing ships and modifying those under construction. It also led to the demise of the idea of using “600 ton” torpedo boats as unlimited destroyer substitutes.
Instead the IJN looked at the relative success of the “Special Type Gunboat” in riding out the heavy seas and decided to build a fleet of “shadow destroyers”, gunboats that could be rapidly converted into destroyers in the leadup to a war. This would go with the fleet of “shadow carriers” they were building from fast tenders and subsidized merchantmen who would also be converted into the leadup to war and complement the two fleet carriers of the Shoukaku class they had built and the two officially 22,500 ton Taiho class they were currently building…
…As the Second Wilmington Naval Conference approached the IJN made what in hindsight looks like a foolish decision from the outside but made perfect sense when one considered internal politics. The IJA was growing and had gained in prestige from its establishing of a protectorate in Manchuria, and the subsequent expansion of that protectorate and neutralization of KMT activities in parts of Northern China. Thus in an increasingly nationalistic time the IJA had been seen as standing up for Japan and received budgetary increases to match.
The IJN had to do something to gain the same public perception and justify budget increases as not to be left behind in influence by their rivals. Thus they made the decision that unless they received serious concessions at the coming Second Wilmington Conference they would withdraw from the Naval Treaty system…
-Excerpt from Naval History Between the Wars, Harper & Brothers, New York, 2007
Okay another naval update, not really a timeline progression one, sue me I wanted to write something fun after 19 pages about a coffee shop chain that will not be named
Hmmn, interesting choices - I see the valuable reasons you're characterizing each of the powers, and it makes sense. I do think that air power aspirations of the Americans are going to be the biggest winners after 2nd WNT; if the Americans again do their Fleet Exercise Problems, the limitations of Big Gun ships are going to be very apparent, and it'll be too late for the other powers to catch up.
Yep, with the only nation that can afford it having a large portion of it's population currently unemployed and looking for work.
Part 5-9, Into the Abyss, Revisionist Viewpoints
RamscoopRaider
Donor
…Cracks in the New Deal began showing in 1935. Both the National Recovery Administration and the Agricultural Adjustment Administration were found unconstitutional by the US supreme Court. Roosevelt threatened to pack the court with more justices, but faced severe public backlash from this proposal and was forced to backdown. His proposal did get through to the Supreme Court, who realized that while killing controversial and unpopular programs like the NRA and AAA were one thing, if they did the same to more popular programs the public might not save them. Further interference by the Supreme Court ended due to retirements and deaths letting FDR appoint several replacement judges…
…The AAA was quickly replaced by a similar program with one key difference. Rather than paying farmers to let land lie fallow, they were instead paid to plant soil enriching cover crops that were not marketable. This policy was more popular and survived Supreme Court challenges…
…Somewhat chastened by the loss of the AAA and NRA FDR nonetheless pressed on with five major programs in his “Second New Deal”. The first of these was a stronger tax policy, establishing corporate taxes and raising the income taxes on the highest earners. This was known as a “soak the rich” tax and Roosevelt was called a class traitor by other members of the elite, nonetheless he managed to steal the thunder of a number of populists such as Huey Long of Louisiana.
Secondly he championed labor rights. Child labor was banned, a minimum wage established and maximum working hours were established. Furthermore the right to collective bargaining was enshrined in federal law, giving unions a much stronger position.
Thirdly he established a federal housing program with bipartisan support to end slums. In retrospect this program was heavily criticized for mandating segregation in government built housing and contributing to it elsewhere, however it was considered a major step forward at the time.
Fourth was the creation of the Social Security Administration. This created a set of universal old age insurance in the United States, with a retirement age at 65. It quickly proved to be one of the most popular of the New Deal Programs and is arguably FDR’s defining legacy as president.
Fifth was the creation of the Works Progress Agency to replace the previous Public Works and Civil Works agency. The Works Progress Agency funded large scale public works in every state and all the territories building roads, bridges, dams and more. Its rural electrification department brought electricity to millions who had been living without while its youth program taught valuable skills. Its artistic programs provided a major enrichment of American culture and served to unleash a fountain of creativity…
…The WPA proved to have the most impact on the Second World War of all the New Deal programs. Important infrastructure such as the AlCan highway and the third set of locks on the Panama Canal were funded through the program. Furthermore by targeting the early relief measures in swing districts, Roosevelt was able to secure a cooperative Congress in the 1936 elections…
…1935 saw Volkism begin to reveal its true nature as more than just Fascism under another name with the unveiling of Hitler’s Racial Laws. Targeted at Jews, Blacks and Gypsies these laws explicitly removed the right of these groups to be citizens of the German state. They were further barred from marrying or having sex with German citizens in a clause borrowed from US anti-miscegenation laws. A “Civil Service Reform” Law then saw these groups barred from government services and professions such as education, law and medicine.
Enforcement of these laws was put on hold due to the upcoming 1936 Olympics in Berlin, having been awarded to the Weimar Republic. Hitler was worried that vigorous enforcement of these laws might overshadow the glory he expected his “Aryan” athletes to win at the Olympic Games and the grand spectacle he had planned.
Despite this many saw the warning signs that these laws were only a beginning of further repression. However the strict capital flight laws created by the Weimar Republic meant that they could not leave without surrendering over 90% of their wealth. Combined with the racism of many potential destination countries and Germany’s minorities found themselves trapped in a country that was becoming increasingly hostile…
-Into the Abyss: The leadup to the Second World War, Harper and Brothers, New York, 2009
…Popular history tends to view the Fascist Party of Sanna as fundamentally similar to that of the present day Fascist Parties in the United States, being a socially conservative, economically interventionist party with a strong authoritarian streak, but still a colorblind member of the democratic process. This paper will show that the current American Fascist Party shares little besides the name with the original party, and that other present day fascist parties have significantly diverged from their routes over the decades thanks to outside pressures…
…While Sanna’s undoubtable lack of Antisemitism and the lack of any explicitly framed Racial Laws like those of Germany before the Second World War are used as arguments that Sanna and his Fascists were not racist, the truth is rather different. Rather Sanna was better at disguising laws aimed at Gypsies, Arabs and Africans as anti-vagrancy, anti-crime and counterespionage laws. It is clear from the man’s diaries that punishing these groups was his intent, his personal racism coming across strongly there.
This racism is not incompatible with his famous public remark on Hitler’s anti-Jewish rhetoric, “Blaming the jews? Has Germany no more witches to burn?”, implying that antisemitism was as much a medieval superstition as belief in witchcraft…
…Sanna was arguably harsher on homosexuals than Hitler was before his attempted assassination by homosexual activist Ernst Rohm at the Berlin Olympics. However rather than throw them into concentration camps Sanna preferred to put them in asylums or so called “reorientation programs” meant to eliminate their homosexuality…
…While not operating concentration camps on the scale of Hitler’s Germany Sanna did make inconvenient individuals disappear without due process. He was merely pragmatic enough to do so sparingly, preferring either to harass them into leaving Italy, entrap them into being accessories to a crime or get them ruled mentally incompetent…
-Excerpt from Revisionist Viewpoints in History Volume XXX, University of California Press: Berkley, 2020
…The AAA was quickly replaced by a similar program with one key difference. Rather than paying farmers to let land lie fallow, they were instead paid to plant soil enriching cover crops that were not marketable. This policy was more popular and survived Supreme Court challenges…
…Somewhat chastened by the loss of the AAA and NRA FDR nonetheless pressed on with five major programs in his “Second New Deal”. The first of these was a stronger tax policy, establishing corporate taxes and raising the income taxes on the highest earners. This was known as a “soak the rich” tax and Roosevelt was called a class traitor by other members of the elite, nonetheless he managed to steal the thunder of a number of populists such as Huey Long of Louisiana.
Secondly he championed labor rights. Child labor was banned, a minimum wage established and maximum working hours were established. Furthermore the right to collective bargaining was enshrined in federal law, giving unions a much stronger position.
Thirdly he established a federal housing program with bipartisan support to end slums. In retrospect this program was heavily criticized for mandating segregation in government built housing and contributing to it elsewhere, however it was considered a major step forward at the time.
Fourth was the creation of the Social Security Administration. This created a set of universal old age insurance in the United States, with a retirement age at 65. It quickly proved to be one of the most popular of the New Deal Programs and is arguably FDR’s defining legacy as president.
Fifth was the creation of the Works Progress Agency to replace the previous Public Works and Civil Works agency. The Works Progress Agency funded large scale public works in every state and all the territories building roads, bridges, dams and more. Its rural electrification department brought electricity to millions who had been living without while its youth program taught valuable skills. Its artistic programs provided a major enrichment of American culture and served to unleash a fountain of creativity…
…The WPA proved to have the most impact on the Second World War of all the New Deal programs. Important infrastructure such as the AlCan highway and the third set of locks on the Panama Canal were funded through the program. Furthermore by targeting the early relief measures in swing districts, Roosevelt was able to secure a cooperative Congress in the 1936 elections…
…1935 saw Volkism begin to reveal its true nature as more than just Fascism under another name with the unveiling of Hitler’s Racial Laws. Targeted at Jews, Blacks and Gypsies these laws explicitly removed the right of these groups to be citizens of the German state. They were further barred from marrying or having sex with German citizens in a clause borrowed from US anti-miscegenation laws. A “Civil Service Reform” Law then saw these groups barred from government services and professions such as education, law and medicine.
Enforcement of these laws was put on hold due to the upcoming 1936 Olympics in Berlin, having been awarded to the Weimar Republic. Hitler was worried that vigorous enforcement of these laws might overshadow the glory he expected his “Aryan” athletes to win at the Olympic Games and the grand spectacle he had planned.
Despite this many saw the warning signs that these laws were only a beginning of further repression. However the strict capital flight laws created by the Weimar Republic meant that they could not leave without surrendering over 90% of their wealth. Combined with the racism of many potential destination countries and Germany’s minorities found themselves trapped in a country that was becoming increasingly hostile…
-Into the Abyss: The leadup to the Second World War, Harper and Brothers, New York, 2009
…Popular history tends to view the Fascist Party of Sanna as fundamentally similar to that of the present day Fascist Parties in the United States, being a socially conservative, economically interventionist party with a strong authoritarian streak, but still a colorblind member of the democratic process. This paper will show that the current American Fascist Party shares little besides the name with the original party, and that other present day fascist parties have significantly diverged from their routes over the decades thanks to outside pressures…
…While Sanna’s undoubtable lack of Antisemitism and the lack of any explicitly framed Racial Laws like those of Germany before the Second World War are used as arguments that Sanna and his Fascists were not racist, the truth is rather different. Rather Sanna was better at disguising laws aimed at Gypsies, Arabs and Africans as anti-vagrancy, anti-crime and counterespionage laws. It is clear from the man’s diaries that punishing these groups was his intent, his personal racism coming across strongly there.
This racism is not incompatible with his famous public remark on Hitler’s anti-Jewish rhetoric, “Blaming the jews? Has Germany no more witches to burn?”, implying that antisemitism was as much a medieval superstition as belief in witchcraft…
…Sanna was arguably harsher on homosexuals than Hitler was before his attempted assassination by homosexual activist Ernst Rohm at the Berlin Olympics. However rather than throw them into concentration camps Sanna preferred to put them in asylums or so called “reorientation programs” meant to eliminate their homosexuality…
…While not operating concentration camps on the scale of Hitler’s Germany Sanna did make inconvenient individuals disappear without due process. He was merely pragmatic enough to do so sparingly, preferring either to harass them into leaving Italy, entrap them into being accessories to a crime or get them ruled mentally incompetent…
-Excerpt from Revisionist Viewpoints in History Volume XXX, University of California Press: Berkley, 2020
...fuck
This to me implies that Italy, at least, is on the same side as the US in the upcoming war. This might confirm the theory of the Fascists allying with the US/UK to take out the Soviets.
tonycat77
Banned
Sanna looks like a average Latino american Politician from either left or right in the 1940s-1990s or the average european man in the 1920-1930s...
Why do I get the feeling this world is going to see even more ugly moments than we did OTL?
Because that seems to have been the foundational premise from the word go?