Ghastly Victories: The United States in the World Wars

"as neither French nor Italian records survive" Oh bugger. I had suspected that Sanna would have the competence to keep out of the worst of the war, or get himself on the winning side. So much for that trope. Sounds like Italy is not going to escape the nightmare after all. ....At least this means that Ethiopia is probably going to be liberated (since what else could be Italy's most humiliating 19th century defeat?) at the end of it?

Also, 2056? Is it normal for britain to keep diplomatic records classified for 120 years?

Cool to see a TL where Austria isn't so on board with the Anschluss, and it prompts Germany's neighbors to work to contain them. Unfortunately, it seems that Perfidious Albion has made cracks in Hitler's containment almost instantly. Good going.

I'm curious about this "brief socialist uprising" though. What prompted it, and just how big was it?
 
Christ, it sounds like Europe is going to be totally trashed in the coming war.

Its not surprising that London and Paris would throw Ethiopia under the bus through. It however seems a bit out of character for Sanna to go there given the cost of war.

As for the British keeping records sealed on this meeting till 2056? Something tells me that in the post-war years the British government was trying to hide its shame and when all records from before date X can't be released for 100 years after the signing of this law. Given the 2056 date, part of me is wondering if we are going to get to see the show kick off in 43-44 time frame?
 
I wonder if someone in London decide to give operation Unthinkable a go, since that's the only thing I can think of that could cause this kind of destruction implied here.
 
Hmmm, what if this war is France, Britain, and Italy against Germany and the USSR? If the Florentine Front holds then the USSR could be an ally of convenience for the Germans. It would also explain how this WWII gets so bad.

Personally, though, I'm still banking on those records getting destroyed in WWIII, not WWII. Maybe the US and USSR go to war over some Hungarian Revolution analogue?
 
Personally, though, I'm still banking on those records getting destroyed in WWIII, not WWII. Maybe the US and USSR go to war over some Hungarian Revolution analogue?
It could be that it starts with Fascist Italy as part of the anti-communist bloc going Leeroy Jenkins into the Hungary Uprising, and everyone else left playing catchup until it all spirals into WW3.

It'd be out of character for Sanna, but if he dies soon after WW2...
 
Hmmm, what if this war is France, Britain, and Italy against Germany and the USSR? If the Florentine Front holds then the USSR could be an ally of convenience for the Germans. It would also explain how this WWII gets so bad.

Personally, though, I'm still banking on those records getting destroyed in WWIII, not WWII. Maybe the US and USSR go to war over some Hungarian Revolution analogue?
The records getting destroyed in WW3 instead of WW2 would make more sense IMO. Especially if the Nazi's are just as anal about record keeping as OTL.
 
Part 5-6
…Sanna’s Ethiopian War resulted from the confluence of several factors. First was that his rhetoric was beginning to catch up with him, his base was energized by far right expansionist rhetoric and voices were quietly beginning to ask why he had not actually done what his rhetoric was saying he would do. Secondly a convergence of factors made 1936 look to Sanna as the ideal time to conduct such a war that might never come again, Britain and France had granted approval while no major factors existed to distract him in Europe, a situation that could change in several years. Delaying the war could mean that events in Europe could preclude it, or worse spiral out of control while Italy still had significant troops out of position in Ethiopia. Further the Emperor of Ethiopia was in the process of procuring additional arms that would make a future war longer and more difficult. Finally there was Sanna’s personal connection, he had an uncle who had been captured at Adowa and horribly mistreated by the Ethiopians, stories of which played a significant role in his early life and were one cause of his virulent racism against Africans.

Like with most things he did upon concluding the time was right shortly after the creation of the Florentine Front he set about methodically laying the ground work. To provide a fig leaf he sent construction crews into Ethiopia to work on the road between the Eritrean Port of Asseb and Dessie in Ethiopia. The road had been agreed upon in a treaty between Ethiopia and Italy in the 20’s, yet only the Italy part had been built. The Ethiopians were determined not to build the road, as they feared the Italians would use it to invade them. Sanna used the Ethiopian refusal as justification to send workers in to do it himself, knowing they would not tolerate this.

While he waited for the Ethiopians to react Sanna began slowly transferring troops to Eritrea and Somalia, Alpini, Arditi and Bersaglieri to lead the assault in the mountainous terrain of the Ethiopian Highlands with regulars to backfill. Supply dumps were established and crash programs were made to improve infrastructure leading to the Ethiopian border. Further provocations were staged, the Italain Air Force conducted numerous recon missions into Ethiopian territory to take photographs for invasion planning while border posts inched forwards into Ethiopian territory. At the same time propaganda efforts started to undermine Ethiopia, pointing out its backward feudal structure, its superstition, its widespread use of mutilation and torture and the continued presence of 2 million slaves in the country.

Sanna’s preparations were noticed but in the main ignored. The British and French elites saw no reason to be alarmed about the preparations for a war they had authorized and no one else had a significant interest in the Horn of Africa. A potential war there did not seem to interest anyone seriously enough to affect policy.

On December 21st 1935 that changed. An Italain roadbuilding party in Ethiopian territory was approached by Ethiopian troops. They were told to leave and refused to do so. Then they were told to allow themselves to be arrested, and again refused. Finally the Ethiopians threatened force against the party of roadbuilders and the Somali Dubats acting as guards. Shots were fired and the Ethiopian troops overran the roadbuilding party. Sanna had his provocation. Better yet from his perspective the use of illegal Dum-Dum rounds by the Ethiopians and the mutilation and castration the Ethiopians performed on the survivors gave his propaganda a critical edge.

On December 31st Sanna issued an ultimatum to Emperor Haile Selassie. Ethiopia had until the end of February to agree to turn over all of those involved in the December 21st incident to the Italians for justice, pay reparations, cease all attempts to purchase modern weapons, turn over the few modern weapons they possessed, allow the Italians to construct infrastructure within Ethiopia to link Somalia, Eritrea and the major cities of Ethiopia to be owned by Italy and to allow Italain garrisons in Ethiopia to enforce these provisions.

Sanna had no expectation that Emperor Haile would agree to those terms and immediately ramped his preparations into high gear for a March 1st invasion. At this point the potential Italian invasion became front page news and people began discussing it seriously. Sanna’s propaganda was successful however and in most countries the reaction was tepid. Sanna received a few mealy mouthed warnings not to invade, along with more numerous urges to negotiate or step back his demands, but nothing that would stay hum from his course.

Emperor Haile had no intention of agreeing to the Italain terms and began preparations as well, however an arms embargo to both sides laid on by Britain and France prevented him from receiving any more weapons as such would have to go through their ports. What he could do was launch a propaganda offensive of his own and he did so. While not enough to get appreciable action he did manage to shape public opinion in a number of countries, especially the two Sanna’s propaganda efforts had neglected as unnecessary, Britain and France.

Emperor Haile hoped the Ethiopian Army could last long enough in the field for his appeals to bear actual but as the deadline approached became increasingly despondent at that possibility as signs of international action failed to materialize.

On the 40th Anniversary of Adowa Sanna’s forces crossed the border in a campaign to avenge that humiliating defeat, and in doing so set the stage for the next great war…

-Into the Abyss: The leadup to the Second World War, Harper and Brothers, New York, 2009






That feeling when you get told to work Sunday right before leaving on Saturday because the guy you trained on Wednesday already quit...then you come in Sunday morning to find its a miscommunication, he's quitting Wednesday and you didn't have to get up at 3am after all
 
I wonder if Italy will be able to stay in France's good graces after this. It was the international (and the general public's) response to this war and the Italian conduct that really pushed Italy into the German orbit. If Sanna avoids some of the more extreme tactics of Mussolini here, he might be able to pull it off.
 
I wonder if Italy will be able to stay in France's good graces after this. It was the international (and the general public's) response to this war and the Italian conduct that really pushed Italy into the German orbit. If Sanna avoids some of the more extreme tactics of Mussolini here, he might be able to pull it off.
All they need to do to avoid the extreme tactics Mussolini did during the OTL war is the army being led and trained even halfway competently.
 
Emperor Haile had no intention of agreeing to the Italain terms and began preparations as well, however an arms embargo to both sides laid on by Britain and France prevented him from receiving any more weapons as such would have to go through their ports. What he could do was launch a propaganda offensive of his own and he did so. While not enough to get appreciable action he did manage to shape public opinion in a number of countries, especially the two Sanna’s propaganda efforts had neglected as unnecessary, Britain and France.
Two countries where the newspapers and the public have a good chance of making the government change their minds about things. Sanna would have benefitted from considering that, but then, he does live in a fascist state, and I'm not sure how free Italy's press was before he took power. It's pretty reasonably to say that the effect of the free press would not even have occurred to him. He's going to be rather unhappy with the results, methinks.
 
If Sanna manages to avoid being too awful, the outcry may not be enough tho.
Maybe. Depends on too many factors for anyone but the author to say. Both are certainly plausible, though. My own speculation is (based on the way the chapter is phrased) that the Ethiopean Emperor's efforts will eventually lead to the British and/or French governments deciding that they've Got To Be Seen To Be Doing Something against Italy for this... or that it will be used as an excuse when they want to do something related for economic reasons.
 
But we also know - or at least it's really strongly implied - that Sanna and Hitler don't end up on the same side.
 
But we also know - or at least it's really strongly implied - that Sanna and Hitler don't end up on the same side.
Also not only is Sanna and Hitler's Fascism considered completely different. Instead of just different shades of the same color like OTL. Sanna's version of it is also implied to still be a viable political ideology in TTLs present day. Which indicates that Sanna and Italy end up coming out as winners out of the wars.
 
Also not only is Sanna and Hitler's Fascism considered completely different. Instead of just different shades of the same color like OTL. Sanna's version of it is also implied to still be a viable political ideology in TTLs present day. Which indicates that Sanna and Italy end up coming out as winners out of the wars.
Given that Italian archives got destroyed, I'm not so sure about them winning this war that is coming
 
Given that Italian archives got destroyed, I'm not so sure about them winning this war that is coming
I mean fully occupied by a hostile country but being liberated and getting restored/gaining land at the peace conference is still winning. Basically Italy doesn't necessarily have to do good in the war, just stay on the winning side during the whole thing.
 
I mean fully occupied by a hostile country but being liberated and getting restored/gaining land at the peace conference is still winning. Basically Italy doesn't necessarily have to do good in the war, just stay on the winning side during the whole thing.
From the way I'm reading things all of Europe outside the UK is destroyed. So I'm not sure anyone wins this war
 
From the way I'm reading things all of Europe outside the UK is destroyed. So I'm not sure anyone wins this war
They do still exist as countries in TTLs present day. Plus I fully agree with the idea that the reason Europe is so damaged is that WW3 happens. So it's entirely possible that Sanna and Italy win in WW2 but WW3 comes around and fucks everyone over except as you point out the UK for some reason.
 
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