I never said Germany wasn't going to be left devastated, just that things might be better enough that the german people don't flock to someone as extreme as the Nazis.
A highly cynical and unlikely statement that ignores a lot of context surrounding the rise of the Nazi party and goes contrary to most assumptions normally made about alternate history. The rise of the Nazi party could have been prevented in OTL as it could be ITTL.The only type of peace treaty that will give this is the one that permit Germany to not give up a single inch of territory, don't include military limitation and don't include reparation...so i doubt it
On the nazi party in specific? Yes it can be prevented, but a revanchist dictatorship that will kill any democratic developement and want a second round to avenge the previous defeat and retake his place in world? Nope, they have lost too much in term of blood and treasure and as the other pointed out they have a better hand than OTL to not develop a 'stab in the back myth' or a ' we come to win by an hinch' mentality and as OTL the military will immediately try to blame everyone else except them of the defeat.A highly cynical and unlikely statement that ignores a lot of context surrounding the rise of the Nazi party and goes contrary to most assumptions normally made about alternate history. The rise of the Nazi party could have been prevented in OTL as it could be ITTL.
Yeah, adding tens of thousands of hostile residents to your country, I'm sure this will end well.Among his goals was moving the Franco-German border to the Rhine, to give France a natural barrier similar to the one the Channel provided Britain and to absorb important mining and industrial areas.
Much foreshadowing here. Do you plan to keep this timeline going until these "events of the sixth, seventh and eighth decades of the twentieth century"? The implication here is that something about them, moreso than the 2nd world war itself, is what makes the American zeitgeist really try to backpedal hard and pretend they were never OK with the entente's attempt at vengeance against Germany.…It is popular in mainstream histories to speak of a postwar disconnect between the United States and the other victors of the First World War. The narrative of having won the war the idealistic United States immediately finding itself clashing with the cynical power grabbing of the other victors has a powerful attraction. It places the blame for the Second World War squarely on the shoulders of the European nations for having not learned their lessons from the First World War like the United States had.
This view is however unnuanced and as will be shown in this paper is a product of events of the sixth, seventh and eighth decades of the twentieth century. At the close of the First World War the American public, and especially the political elites, were in agreement with their counterparts in Britain and France on most matters. They too blamed Germany for the war and wanted them to be punished. What differences there were between the two were primarily matters of form, degree, severity and priority, rather than of substance. Had the United States truly been as opposed to the other Great Powers as is popularly believed, then the Second World War would have likely been averted, however that is not how it was.
Holy shit what? Is Clemenceau proposing a secret alliance with Germany against England and America motivated purely by spite? Did anything like this madness happen OTL?…Clemenceau however had a second plan in the works in case the first failed. In case the first failed he sent a diplomat, Rene Massagli to Berlin to conduct secret meetings with the Germans. Massagli was to leak details of the negotiations and offer revision in favor of Germany. In exchange he would ask for practical Franco-German cooperation against the Anglo-Saxon powers that the French government claimed were the primary threat to both countries…
I'm not sure that it did, but with a longer war and what little I know about Clemenceau (so take this with a grain of salt), I could believe that he'd try. Not sure how the Germans would feel about it, but having one of the victorious powers as a post-war ally might be tempting for them. It depends in part on who the people Massagli talks to are most angry at by then.Holy shit what? Is Clemenceau proposing a secret alliance with Germany against England and America motivated purely by spite? Did anything like this madness happen OTL?
There'll be home-grown fascists in the Assembly. Mark my words.…Many of Clemenceau’s more infamous demands, taken as a sign of the disconnect between France and America were not actually his own. Rather he was pressured by advisers and elements in the French Parliament to make harsh demands. Clemenceau recognized that a France allied with America and Britain was in a better place than an isolated France with borders on the Rhine. However he had to press for the latter or failing that a Rhenish buffer state. Likewise he had to present a partition plan, even though he thought such a thing was foolish. It is a similar story behind many of his decisions at the negotiating table…
War always (or nearly so) is, but the next one does seem likely to be nastier than average, whether Nazis get involved or not.Why do I get the feeling that whatever happens in the next war its going to be ugly as all hell.
That could be an interesting change.There'll be home-grown fascists in the Assembly. Mark my words.
Franco-German fascist bloc?
Yeah the only real major difference I can see so far is Schleswig-Holstein looks to be staying completely under Germany's control. Alongside the comment about the Danish public sympathizing more with Germany I'm wondering if that means Denmark ends up an outright German ally during WW2.Seems similar enough to OTL so far...
How much does Poland's western border differ from OTL, if at all?
I could see that, though it depends on many factors going along (mainly how Germany treats them, how other nations that might ally with Germany do, and how Germany's enemies treat the Danes, along with internal factors). Things could get very messy in European politics over the intervening years, after all.Yeah the only real major difference I can see so far is Schleswig-Holstein looks to be staying completely under Germany's control. Alongside the comment about the Danish public sympathizing more with Germany I'm wondering if that means Denmark ends up an outright German ally during WW2.