exnted the Byzantine resurgance era

many people often see post islamic invasions byzantine empire as rump roman state bearly surviving and its true for the 7th and early 8th centuries then being mostly a defensive war but it ignores that starting in the 9th century is where the period of byzantine resurgance began and culmiated in the 11th century with areas lost as early as the 7th century being reconquered
how do we make this era last longer now this is not a what if the byzantines survive till the present or even modern times just extend the recovery period ( and you can later have it crash ) usually the easiest pod is not have the succesors of basil II be less competent that a sack of potatoes with a picture of augustus glued to it.

but i think there is more to explore so all my fellow byzantine alt history fans how do we extend this period and what effects would it have and what other lands could the empire recover, or no more reconquest and have the empire be ok at its size etc
 
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How about having it start earlier? Say Constantine V conquers Bulgaria in one of his many campaigns or, better yet, Constantine IV beats them at the Battle of Ongal, butterflying their state altogether.
 
How about having it start earlier? Say Constantine V conquers Bulgaria in one of his many campaigns or, better yet, Constantine IV beats them at the Battle of Ongal, butterflying their state altogether.
It think it would be hard for Constantine V to pull it off the bulgar where thar resilient but maybe if we give him another 10 years of life and he him die at age 67 he migth
Ongal is much more likely but the caliphate is a treath and due to the butterflies would a caliphate collapse like the abassids did ?
 
It think it would be hard for Constantine V to pull it off the bulgar where thar resilient but maybe if we give him another 10 years of life and he him die at age 67 he migth
Ongal is much more likely but the caliphate is a treath and due to the butterflies would a caliphate collapse like the abassids did ?
Maybe Constantine V could've conquered the place with a victory at Rishki Pass.

As for the Ongal POD, the Abbasid Caliphate hasn't risen yet, but the Umayyads are full of internal issues that will most likely lead to their eventual downfall. Once that happens, the empire could retake Cilicia and maybe even Antioch if they don't have to worry about the Balkans.
 
Maybe Constantine V could've conquered the place with a victory at Rishki Pass.

As for the Ongal POD, the Abbasid Caliphate hasn't risen yet, but the Umayyads are full of internal issues that will most likely lead to their eventual downfall. Once that happens, the empire could retake Cilicia and maybe even Antioch if they don't have to worry about the Balkans.
Wouldn't any collapse of the umayed caliphate less to another taking its place similar to abassids?
 
Wouldn't any collapse of the umayed caliphate less to another taking its place similar to abassids?
... Less what? Likely? I don't understand.

The Umayyads went through a big nasty civil war in the 680s. This might provide Constantine IV (who could live longer with a victory at Ongal) or Justinian II an opportunity to reconquer parts of Syria from them, starting with Antioch.

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Yeah but what I mean is that even if the caliphate collapsed wouldn't another replace it like the abassids did to the uyamayeds
Perhaps, but there would be a critical few years where this new caliphate isn't completely solid, allowing an empire that doesn't go through the Twenty Years' Anarchy to exploit that.
 
how do we make this era last longer now this is not a what if the byzantines survive till the present or even modern times just extend the recovery period ( and you can later have it crash ) usually the easiest pod is not have the succesors of basil II be less competent that a sack of potatoes with a picture of augustus glued to it.

Keep around the Theme system, maybe? That made the Empire very resilient (it's hard to imagine an empire with an intact Theme system collapsing quite so spectacularly after Manzikert, for example), and so it would better be able to keep hold of any new conquests when -- as is inevitable -- the Empire suffered some reverse.
 
Keep around the Theme system, maybe? That made the Empire very resilient (it's hard to imagine an empire with an intact Theme system collapsing quite so spectacularly after Manzikert, for example), and so it would better be able to keep hold of any new conquests when -- as is inevitable -- the Empire suffered some reverse.
well some byzantine reonquest lasted fairly long crete and bulgaria lasted more than a century especially crete that lasted all the way till 1204 and bulgaria could have lasted more but yeah armenia and the whole of anatolia didnt last
 
I think the theme system is a bit overrated. Sure, it was really useful back when the empire was under constant threat from multiple sides, but sooner or later (probably a LOT sooner ITTL) Constantinople will go back to the offensive. I could see some, but perhaps not all, themes being abolished. Keeping them on volatile border areas like the Danube, Cilicia and Armenia is probably a good idea.
 
Wouldn't they be replaced by another Turkic troop also the Doukai had a lot of power wouldn't getting rid of them or anything like that result in a big revolt or civil war ?
Another Turkic group might not be nearly as successful as OTL. And by getting rid of the Doukai I meant keeping them off the throne, but yeah, dealing with the nobility is a big part of any Byzantine restoration, it's not an easy road.
 
I think the theme system is a bit overrated. Sure, it was really useful back when the empire was under constant threat from multiple sides, but sooner or later (probably a LOT sooner ITTL) Constantinople will go back to the offensive. I could see some, but perhaps not all, themes being abolished. Keeping them on volatile border areas like the Danube, Cilicia and Armenia is probably a good idea.
well basil II frontiers where stable but i wonder how would they be abolished since the empire would still have enemies in all sides but it depends on the pod
 
The Byzantine resurgence started with the collapse of Abbasid centralization, and ended with it's return under Seljuk dominion. In other words it filled a power vacuum and once that vacuum got filled things became a lot more difficult.
 
The Byzantine resurgence started with the collapse of Abbasid centralization, and ended with it's return under Seljuk dominion. In other words it filled a power vacuum and once that vacuum got filled things became a lot more difficult.
Eh that is oversimplifing it a bit to much as it didn't help that the empire was stuck between the caliphate and the Bulgarian empire the latter of which conquered more than the abassids (granted the abaddids had no intention to invade the ere )
Also the was just roman empire was just powerful as the seljuk empire in pure military terms unlike the early 9th century abbasid caliphate

So there is a lot of pod to make the Byzantine resurgence last longer or even being earlier even with pre and post caliphate collapse
 
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