Dread Nought but the Fury of the Seas

I wonder if the Germans would actually bother to repair their damaged ships?
This little escapade will have probably convinced them of the stratigic impotence of the high seas fleet.

Hindenburg and Lutzow have probably only taken light/superficial damage and so can return to service quickly with the minimum of effort. Possibly the same with Seydlitz just taking longer.
The big problems are Kronprinz and Moltke which would likely need to be dry docked for many weeks for extensive work.

The German government may decide that it is unlikely that the High Seas Fleet will sortie again and that the resources (especially steel) needed for repairs would be better being allocated to building more U Boats or artillery pieces for the army and the like.

In the case of Moltke given she is now likely a mess of repair jobs it wouldn't be surprising to perhaps see her scrapped with her crew plugging gaps elsewhere and the recovered steel perhaps used to finish off newer ships.
They will undoubtedly want to make repairs, but with resource and manpower limits starting to bite there may well be choices to make.
U-boat production has ramped up (a bit less than OTL, but still up), so there are limits on what is available for the surface fleet. They've already effectively suspended new construction.

Hindenburg, Lutzow and Kronprinz are among the best ships in the fleet, and as you say the first two are not badly damaged. A little effort with Seydlitz gives them a four-ship BC force (they also have Von der Tann undamaged).

Then, they might choose to 'bodge' ships, keeping them operational, but not necessarily in ideal condition - e.g. plating over missing guns/equipment rather than repairing it, or filling voids with concrete/wood simply to make them watertight and provide a smooth-ish hull.
Moltke almost certainly fits that condition.
 
The British mocked up some battle ships using merchantmen . I believe the RFA City of Oxford was one . I believe the "paper" HMS Tiger sunk and its turrets floated away . If the plan is to lure the British to where the uboats can run amok . Maybe they could consider some Erstatz Battleships to go with their Erstatz brot as Judas goats
 
The British mocked up some battle ships using merchantmen . I believe the RFA City of Oxford was one . I believe the "paper" HMS Tiger sunk and its turrets floated away . If the plan is to lure the British to where the uboats can run amok . Maybe they could consider some Erstatz Battleships to go with their Erstatz brot as Judas goats
Just so.
I've always like to think of the the later use of HMS Centurion - a battleship converted to a target ... then made-up to resemble a battleship in order to serve as a target.
Very Milliganesque

The Germans a nearing the point were they could simply use the damaged ships as decoys, or they've plenty of pre-dreadnoughts in reserve.
However, for the time being, their fleet still has more traditional tactics.
 

Stenz

Monthly Donor
The Germans a nearing the point were they could simply use the damaged ships as decoys, or they've plenty of pre-dreadnoughts in reserve.
However, for the time being, their fleet still has more traditional tactics.
Maybe one last great sortie into action against the Grand Fleet? A death ride if you will...
 
Maybe one last great sortie into action against the Grand Fleet? A death ride if you will...
A last charge similar to that of HMS Ulysses but with a whole fleet? Now that would be an action which would go down in history. It would be less ignominious than the OTL end of the HSF anyway (not that that wasn't an honourable end in its own way).
Ulysses is sunk in a failed attempt to ram a German cruiser after all her other weapons had been destroyed.
(quoted from the linked Wikipedia article)
 
And trigger Mutiny in 3...2...1...
A last charge similar to that of HMS Ulysses but with a whole fleet? Now that would be an action which would go down in history. ... snip...
It did - see 'Death ride of the Battlecruisers' at Jutland.
Expectations of survival were not high, and the fact that they did is a good indication of the terrible visibility and the equally terrible performance of British shells.

However, they're not desperate or fanatical enough to mount a suicide run. As SsgtC so succinctly suggests, their morale hasn't exactly been raised by recent events.
 

SsgtC

Banned
It did - see 'Death ride of the Battlecruisers' at Jutland.
Expectations of survival were not high, and the fact that they did is a good indication of the terrible visibility and the equally terrible performance of British shells.

However, they're not desperate or fanatical enough to mount a suicide run. As SsgtC so succinctly suggests, their morale hasn't exactly been raised by recent events.
Not to mention that the death ride scenario actually happened IOTL, and when the fleet found out what was being ordered, they mutinied. And that mutiny subsequently triggered the German Revolution and the Kaiser's abdication
 

Stenz

Monthly Donor
It did - see 'Death ride of the Battlecruisers' at Jutland.
...
However, they're not desperate or fanatical enough to mount a suicide run.
Not to mention that the death ride scenario actually happened IOTL, and when the fleet found out what was being ordered, they mutinied.
I was referring to “The Naval Order of 24 October 1918
i.e. the High Seas Fleet being readied by Scheer to charge into combat in some glorious last roll of the dice to gain a better position come the now inevitable peace negotiations.
 
I was referring to “The Naval Order of 24 October 1918
i.e. the High Seas Fleet being readied by Scheer to charge into combat in some glorious last roll of the dice to gain a better position come the now inevitable peace negotiations.
I know you were - I wasn't sure Friendly Ghost was.

In the story, of course, they've already sort-of attempted the plan (although without the specific intent of engaging the GF), so for the sailors it's not a question of thinking it's a bad idea - they have the evidence to prove it.
 
A Quick Turnaround
A Quick Turnaround

The last message from the Goeben was that British battlecruisers were in sight to the East. For most of her crew, the news would prove fatal, but it brought no cheer for Admiral Scheer either.

The two ‘Renowns’ were shadowing him to the northwest, and he now knew that the other British battlecruisers were to the West. But where was the Grand Fleet?
If it was behind or to the north of the BCF, then he was already safe, but the fact that the British were so keen to keep him under observation suggested that their main fleet was still being guided towards him. That meant they might be to the north, or worse, the northeast; sailing south in order to cut him off.
Tragic though it was, he had no choice but to leave the Goeben to her fate, and hope that none of his other ships fell behind. His only comfort was that no reports had been received from his scouts to the North.

As events turned out, Scheer need not have worried. Even though Admiral Beatty had pushed the fleet to its utmost speed, his flagship Royal Sovereign was still sixty miles to the north. He’d given himself the best possible chance of action by allowing the seven fast ships of the Fifth Battle Squadron (Valiant was in dock) to take station ten miles ahead of the rest of the fleet. However the weight of command and his experience at Stavanger had made him wary of splitting his fleet, and he wanted to keep these powerful ships in sight.
The chances of interception were fading as the fleet steamed southeast past the latitude of Scarborough. A German U-boat screen was a distinct possibility, and torpedo tracks were reported at 12.29. A few minutes later, Beatty ordered the fleet to turn back northwest. The leading ships had come within 30 miles of the Germans, but by now the enemy would be approaching the safety of his minefields.

In fact Scheer had only been able to send seven U-boats into the central North Sea, and none of them reported firing a torpedo that day.
As the fleet returned to Wilhelmshaven, he formulated a new plan. The British had steamed a long way south and would now be returning to their bases in Scotland. Steaming so far would take them at least another 12 hours, after which they would have to coal. If enough of Scheer’s fleet could coal quickly enough, they could maintain this 12-hour lead, and relaunch the operation with a built-in advantage in time.

As the hours ticked by after they returned, Scheer could see that the prospect of this hastily planned renewal of the operation was beginning to slip through his fingers. The Kaiserin had to open her port turbine for repairs, and the Seydlitz was damaged for’ard and needed to go into dock. Even the Lutzow and Hindenburg needed more time to replenish ammunition stocks and cover over minor damage.
By the evening of the 3rd, the Admiral was ready to accept that he had lost his 12-hour advantage, when he received word that his request to renew the operation had been denied.

For the time being, further offensive operations in the North Sea were being curtailed, as the Fleet was needed in the Baltic.
 
see 'Death ride of the Battlecruisers' at Jutland.
I know you were - I wasn't sure Friendly Ghost was.
Thanks for the info, always nice to learn more. I didn't know about the 'Death Ride' - that's exactly the sort of thing I was imagining, but with the whole fleet (highly implausible I know). Regarding the 24/10/18 order, I was aware that an order to again try to bring the GF to battle had been one of the causes of the mutiny of the HSF, but not the specifics.
 
Well this is going to be a blow to morale for the Germans. They left the Goben behind to be sunk, had two more ships shot up for seemingly no gain against the RN and they had to disengage again.

Jellico keeps missing the mark and I think and fear that there might well be a 'whispering campaign' in Whitehall and the Admiralty now as he 'let the Germans escape'
 
Well this is going to be a blow to morale for the Germans. They left the Goben behind to be sunk, had two more ships shot up for seemingly no gain against the RN and they had to disengage again.
It is - definitely rumblings on the lower decks. No German sailor is going to be keen to engage like that again, not at this stage of the war. However, for now they have some (relatively) safe things to do in the Baltic.

Jellico keeps missing the mark and I think and fear that there might well be a 'whispering campaign' in Whitehall and the Admiralty now as he 'let the Germans escape'
Beatty is C-in-C now, Sturdee has the BCF, Hood was in command of R & R.
Beatty would no doubt be fuming, although he pushed the fleet as hard as it would go. Even at 21 knots it wasn't enough (and that would mean breaking formation with some of the older or more fouled units).
 
You know, responding to German threats when they can just cross a bit of the North Sea, and the British fleet has to sail the entire length of Britain from Skapa Flow, is pretty much a guarantee that the Germans can retreat.

The Brits are lucky to have done as well as they did here.
 

SsgtC

Banned
You know, responding to German threats when they can just cross a bit of the North Sea, and the British fleet has to sail the entire length of Britain from Skapa Flow, is pretty much a guarantee that the Germans can retreat.

The Brits are lucky to have done as well as they did here.
It helps when you're reading the mail...
 
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