SsgtC

Banned
Assuming that one splash wasn't directly behind another splash, that should work. Still I can see if this happens several times (missing splashes and no explosions), they would start to question their shells. Especially if multiple ships report similar issues.
Keep in mind, you're not just watching from a single position. Range finders and binoculars all over the ship would be watching, from different angles. The bridge deck log and the logs from the various range finders would all be compared after the battle to verify the information submitted in the official AAR
 
Keep in mind, you're not just watching from a single position. Range finders and binoculars all over the ship would be watching, from different angles. The bridge deck log and the logs from the various range finders would all be compared after the battle to verify the information submitted in the official AAR

True, they do have different view points, but they are also comparatively close together. A 300 yard long battleship with observers at the bow and stern are going to see pretty much the same thing given the 10,000 plus yards to the target and the separation between the observers is about 3% of the distance, even less if the range is longer.
 
I wonder how the war will end-we're in 1916 now, if a ceasefire happens soon, that would be a lot more resources left to spend on naval construction afterwards.
 
I wonder how the war will end-we're in 1916 now, if a ceasefire happens soon, that would be a lot more resources left to spend on naval construction afterwards.
The Entente has had a rough couple of years, but then they were always going to. However, the tide is starting to turn.

The war will be over before the end of 1917.
Relatively, everyone will be better off, than in reality, but to varying degrees.
Russia and Austria-Hungary will collapse, Germany will sort-of lose. France will still be exhausted.
The US barely has time to bring her forces into action.
Financially, both the UK and US will be somewhat better off (the UK will owe less, and both will have fewer dud loans on the books and won't have to fund such a long armaments program).

I just won't say exactly when and how that happens...
 
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Stavanger 17 – How went Der Tag?
Stavanger 17 – How went Der Tag?

Far to the south of the British ships, the Germans had just as many problems as their enemies.

After she fell out of line in the later stages of the ‘Dash to the north’, SMS Derfflinger had turned southeast to try to make for home. As the night drew in the British battlecruisers had sailed just six miles west of her, and had it been daylight, she would have been easy prey for their guns. They might have had another chance later, as they engaged the Stuttgart just a few miles to the south (at first the British believed Stuttgart was the damaged Derfflinger). However, even without the enemy, Derfflinger's fate was sealed; by 10.05, it was clear that there was nothing more that could be done, as water continued to force its way aft from the flooded bow compartments. Destroyers were ordered to come alongside to take the crew off, and by 10.24, the waterline had reached the base of A-turret. The hard-fought ship rolled over a few minutes later, virtually unseen.
South of her, the Moltke was still limping along. Her Captain had maintained higher speed than was wise to keep up with other ships during the run South, and had kept going as fast as possible for several hours after breaking off action in order to get clear of the battle area, concerned that the British would turn once again and overrun his battered ship. As a consequence, by nightfall she was well on her way home, but her forward bulkheads were badly strained. Pumps and furious shoring-up kept the flooding in check outside of the bow, but her bow was so deep in the water that she ran aground as she tried to enter the Jade. Attempts to back off made the flooding worse, and it would take outside help to bring her into Wilhelmshaven.

Hipper's flagship Lutzow, along with the Seydlitz and Von der Tann had fled East through the Skaggerak and made it home to Kiel in good time. All would need major repairs, but while Seydlitz's upperworks were shattered and she had lost three turrets, her engines and hull were found to be in good order. Lutzow would be in dock for nearly two months due to the loss of a turret and the effects of salt in her boilers, while Von der Tann would need almost three months’ repairs due to the damage caused by a boiler room fire and the thirteen heavy shells that had hit her during the battle. SMS Goeben limped home more slowly, as she was almost as badly flooded as her sister. However, her repairs were shorter, as despite the widespread damage and flooding, much of it was in non-vital areas, and work was prioritised as she could obviously be brought back into service more quickly than the others.

The ships of the High Seas Fleet made it home in widely varying states. The slow battleships of the ‘Nassau’ and ‘Helgoland’ classes had not played any significant part in the action (not all of them had even fired at the enemy), although their efforts had sunk a British cruiser during a brief action just before Scheer turned away. The pre-dreadnoughts of II Geschwader hadn’t even seen the enemy, having lagged behind to the south, before turning with the others to stay well away from the action.

Back in port, as after-action reports started to come in, observers suggested that the Markgraf had been hit by up to 20 heavy shells before she exploded (post-war analysis suggested it was 18), and that she had been heavily on fire aft before the final hit.
Grosser Kurfurst was the most heavily damaged of the survivors, as nine hits by British 13.5” and 15” shells had burned out her A and C-turrets, and left D-turret jammed by a huge chunk of displaced armour plate, and with its sights and port elevation mechanism wrecked. The ship’s secondary battery had three guns burned out, with one reduced to shards of steel by what must have been a direct hit.
Shipwrights believed that Konig had also suffered nine hits. D-turret was destroyed, and she needed extensive repairs to her battery and superstructure due to fire damage and the 15” shell that had wrecked her bridge. Flooding amidships had been contained by her crew, and she was docked for less than a week to repair underwater plating. The Kronprinz had suffered less, and needed only a couple of weeks before she was again ready for sea.

From the quayside, Admiral Scheer surveyed his own flagship, the Bayern, which had been hit seven times by 15” shells.
The worst of the damage was to C-turret, where one of the mighty 15” guns had been blown out of its cradle by the body of a British shell, which had also carved a deep gouge in the barrel of the gun itself. Remarkably, the turret’s other gun had fired a few more shots, but it had been unable to train aft with the huge steel barrel collapsed down onto the deck. With the turret awry, he hadn’t been able to steam back into harbour with the ship looking as if she was ready to go out and fight again.
He could now that there had never been any chance of that, as there were ugly burn marks all along the forward 5.9” battery, and the splinter holes that peppered the upperworks. The report in his hand said that she would be out of action for at least eight weeks while the turret was refitted.

The following day he visited Kiel, to inspect what was left of Admiral Hipper’s squadron. His own High Seas Fleet had fought hard, but that was nothing to what the four surviving battlecruisers had clearly endured. Only the Lutzow still looked like a fighting ship. Despite the efforts of their crews, the decks of Seydlitz and Goeben were littered with twisted wreckage, and Von der Tann’s foc’sle was more a series of jagged holes than it was a deck.

After that, there was the sorriest ship of all. Aboard a destroyer, he sailed out to see the Moltke. Her bows were still buried in the bar of the Jade, and salvage crews swarmed over her, fixing lifting gear and building coffer dams. With any luck, she would make port within a week, but there was a sinking feeling in his heart as he knew it would be months before she could sail again. Before the destroyer sailed, he had been slightly buoyed by the news that a U-boat had sunk one of the British stragglers; at least that made it equal in terms of losses. Now, the sight of the Moltke lowered his spirits once again.
In front of him, a steam pump started to chug away, and a moment later water started to pour out of the wreck. No, he thought grimly, the Riskflotte hadn’t been designed to defeat the entire Royal Navy, and unless the fleet became much stronger, it never would.
 
Ahh so now we know the state of the HSF.

Derrflinger sunk like OTL's Lutzow through progressive flooding caused by a heavy hit forwards that ripped open her torpedo flat and successive hits just helped spread the water.
Molkte is TTL's Seydliz, but seemingly suffered worse damage and is wrecked, if not for the need for ships she'd probably be a TCL.
Seydlitz - Damaged but repairable.
Lutzow - Badly shot up and in need of serious dockyard work.
Von Der Tan - Badly shot up and out of action for months
Goben - shot up but not too badly damaged.

Cruiser losses - Unknown
Destroyer losses - Unknown

Battleship losses

1 modern Dreadnought sunk.
the other modern ships of the Koenig and Kaiser classes are damaged to greater or lesser degrees and the Bayern's suffered significant damage as well.

So basically a draw with honours roughly equal thus far assuming no more RN ships sink on the way home.

1 Battlecruiser and 1 modern dreadnought on each side.
The RN may have lost more personnel due to the quick sinking speed of the QM and the ACR's but the Grand Fleet itself is untouched and the Germans have had two of their main battle squadrons shot up and their primary scouting formation out of action as a cohesive unit for months.

The RN also had its Battlecruisers shot up but they've got more ships coming on line and although the BCF is badly shot up not all of the BC's are damaged and they could be shuffled around. There's also more Royal Oak type ships coming on line as well as the Furious and I recall at least 2 more Repulse type ships as well. The Royal Oak showed the class was well laid out and could take a serious hammering and historians and AH'ers of TTL will no doubt discuss how close she was to getting home and how it was bad/good luck that the U-boat found her etc. But something tells me that the huge unarmoured expanses of the Furious's hull are now going to be drawing alarm and when she finishes fitting out and no doubt damages herself firing her 18-inch guns, she'll be back in the yards to be given more armour and other improvements to improve her survivability, making her TTL's HMS Refit.

The Repulse type ships also might get some more armour, IIRC she's been quite badly beaten up above her armoured belt but this was due to her getting 11-inch gunfire for the most part rather than anything heavier. And a measly 7-inch belt and large areas unarmoured does make you think that she and her sisters could need a few more inches.

The RN also has a huge reserve of light cruisers to use as scouts which the Germans lack. And the Grand fleet suffered zero damage save barrel wear or shock damage from firing their own guns. Tactically a draw, strategically a win for the RN.
 
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Ahh so now we know the state of the HSF.

...

The RN also had its Battlecruisers shot up but they've got more ships coming on line and although the BCF is badly shot up not all of the BC's are damaged and they could be shuffled around. There's also more Royal Oak type ships coming on line as well as the Furious and I recall at least 2 more Repulse type ships as well. The Royal Oak showed the class was well laid out and could take a serious hammering and historians and AH'ers of TTL will no doubt discuss how close she was to getting home and how it was bad/good luck that the U-boat found her etc. But something tells me that the huge unarmoured expanses of the Furious's hull are now going to be drawing alarm and when she finishes fitting out and no doubt damages herself firing her 18-inch guns, she'll be back in the yards to be given more armour and other improvements to improve her survivability, making her TTL's HMS Refit.

The Repulse type ships also might get some more armour, IIRC she's been quite badly beaten up above her armoured belt but this was due to her getting 11-inch gunfire for the most part rather than anything heavier. And a measly 7-inch belt and large areas unarmoured does make you think that she and her sisters could need a few more inches.

The RN also has a huge reserve of light cruisers to use as scouts which the Germans lack. And the Grand fleet suffered zero damage save barrel wear or shock damage from firing their own guns. Tactically a draw, strategically a win for the RN.

An excellent summary; you've predicted some of the next installment, which will be the last dedicated to the battle, although the lessons and the effects will of course continue for some time.

Minor correction - there's only one more Repulse-class to come (Renown).
The inadequate armour of those ships will be the subject of much attention, but they might not be keen to have them in dock for any longer than essential while the war lasts.
Furious is still a way off, but she's likely to become well-acquainted with the dockyards! (more to come there when she completes).
 
Stavanger Finale – The Home Front
Stavanger 18 – The Home Front

In Britain, the morning papers on August 2nd claimed a great victory in the North Sea, although few details were provided. The destruction of the Markgraf was a well-known fact, as was the loss of HMS Queen Mary, but speculation and rumour from Whitehall, Rosyth and other ports suggested that at least 3 or 4 other German dreadnoughts may have been sunk during the night.

In the North Sea and at the Admiralty, the facts were not so clear and the omens were not so positive. As the fleets had headed home on the morning after the battle, Jellicoe learned of the loss of the Queen Mary, and he heard about the torpedoing of Royal Oak just minutes after it happened. Other radio signals were just as worrying; there seemed to be a very real chance that Lion and Warspite would not make it home. Late that evening, Malaya narrowly avoided a U-boat’s torpedoes, but while attempting to ram the submarine her bulkheads were further strained and her flooding becoming acute.
By the morning of the third, most of the British fleet had made port, apart from these few lame ducks. Despite a list here and there and scorch marks on almost every ship, Beatty's squadron entered the Forth with flags flying, to the cheers of crowds on the docksides. The cheering soon subsided though, as the level of damage became clearer, and the obvious fact that eleven ships had sailed, while now there were only nine; and two of those were ‘I-class’ battlecruisers instead of the super-dreadnoughts that had sailed. Malaya's arrival a few hours later calmed nerves somewhat, even though her freeboard for’ard was just a few feet. By the evening of the third, only HMS Lion remained at sea, now heavily escorted by the refuelled First Battle Squadron and under tow by the battleship HMS Colossus. Lion would make it home at midday on the 4th, after an exhausting two-and-a-half-day battle by her crew to keep her afloat, their efforts lit only by battery torches and oil lamps. After the battle, there had been no electric power aft of Q-turret, and an attempt to cross-wire the remaining forward dynamo had ended in disaster when repeated overloads caused it to burn out its windings on the morning after the battle.

The propaganda battle began only hours after the final shots were fired, and both sides made early claims that later made for embarrassing reading. The Germans’ claim to have sunk HMS Warspite by torpedo came in for particular ridicule, as she sailed serenely into the Forth on the afternoon of the third, very deep in the water, but under her own steam and surrounded by a half-dozen destroyers.
On being signalled by the port Captain, ‘Welcome home, Germany claims you're sunk’, Warspite’s C/O replied, ‘Not sunk. Am now part submersible’. She had nearly 6,000 tons of water on board, and her quarterdeck was just 5' above the sea.
However, the general rumours that ‘many German dreadnoughts’ had been sunk were also shown to be untrue, at the papers of neutral nations carried pictures of the German fleet back in harbour. Images of the shattered wreckage of Seydlitz's decks were shocking, while an enterprising American newspaperman had managed to charter a Danish fishing boat to take pictures of the Moltke as she lay aground on the bar of the Jade with her foc'sle awash. However, even these American reports made it clear that most of the German fleet had returned home.

What damaged the German position with neutrals more than anything was the delay in acknowledging the loss of the Derfflinger. For four days after the battle, there was silence, and pictures of her sister Lutzow were circulated abroad, purporting to be her. By the fourth of August, the British fleet was home, and the loss of the Queen Mary and the Royal Oak was public knowledge. For a brief while, it had appeared that the Germans might have scored a tactical victory, despite the heavily damaged ships seen on the Jade. The eventual admission that Derfflinger sank on the night of the battle led neutral (and particularly American) press to question whether German official statements could be relied upon at all; perhaps, even now, The Imperial German Navy had lost more than they were admitting?

In a simple count of men and ship, it was effectively a draw. The Royal Navy lost two capital ships, one armoured cruiser and seven destroyers, with 4,220 men killed as a result of the battle. In addition, the cruiser Duke of Edinburgh received only superficial repairs, and she was disarmed to become an accommodation ship at Scapa Flow.
The Kaiser's Navy lost two capital ships, two light cruisers and eight destroyers, with a death toll of 3,644, the lower figure primarily due to the slow sinking of the Derfflinger and the consequent rescue of most of her crew. By contrast, there were only eleven survivors from HMS Queen Mary, while Royal Oak took all but 382 of her crew down with her. Her senior surviving officer, Commander Farrington, later provided several vivid accounts of the battle, and useful details of the massive damage the ship had sustained even before the fatal torpedo hit.

Neither side were keen to admit the level of damage to the ships that survived, even if some of it was obvious as they returned to their bases.
At Rosyth, Invincible and New Zealand were undamaged, while Princess Royal and Indefatigable returned to service within a week, albeit with minor defects such as secondary guns remaining ashore while work continued aboard. Valiant was back with the fleet a week later, while Barham and Malaya returned by the end of August. Warspite had been struck by 17 heavy shells, making her the most heavily hit British survivor of the battle. Even so, once she was docked, her plating was swiftly repaired and her guns were made fully operational once A-turret was unjammed. Her port battery was completely burnt out, but by the middle of September, she had re-joined the fleet with just three 6" guns mounted to port. The rest were refitted in October.
HMS Panther would be out of action until the end of September, although this was partly due to improper repairs to her starboard LP turbine, which led to further damage during trials. Lion took longer as her engines needed an extensive overhaul, and it was not until the 25th October that she sailed again. Even then, her Chief Engineer complained that she was ‘never quite right’ after the battle, and she was regarded as the slowest of the ‘Cats’ until after the war. Princess Royal remained Flagship of the BCF until the end of the year, when Beatty’s successor hoisted his flag on Panther.

The largest, newest and most powerful ship in the world presented the greatest problem.
HMS Repulse had been hit 12 times by heavy shells, mostly 11" from SMS Goeben, and although she made port shortly after the lead ships of the BCF, she was in poor shape. One of her boiler rooms had been put out of action, although the other four were still capable of producing more power than any other ship afloat. She had easily maintained the 27-knots and then 24-knots of the increasingly damaged ‘Cats’ ahead of her, despite suffering flooding forward which causing a bow-down trim. What was unseen and unappreciated until some hours after the battle was the underlying damage to the ship's deck amidships. A fierce fire had damaged to the structure of plates and rivets, while a shell had torn a hole in the foc'sle deck nearby. This was a load-bearing deck, the plating of which served to keep the ship's frames together and to provide her with longitudinal strength. The fire around the battery and in other adjoining compartments had also affected the decks below, and while they were not primary load-bearing structures, they all helped to hold the ship together.
All British battlecruisers were highly stressed ships, and Repulse's light construction took that to new heights as the strength advantages of ‘HT’ steel were more fully utilised than in the earlier Queen Mary and Panther. Compounded by the additional stresses due to the hole in the deck, the heat-weakened structures started to fail as she sailed home. Rivets along the deck and side plating of the ship started to sheer or snap under forces they were never designed to bear. The ship’s speed was reduced, but shortly before she reached Rosyth the sea state worsened, and as she rode the waves cracks in the deck could be seen flexing.
The ship was in danger of breaking her back, and her Captain was forced to reduce to just eight knots for the last few miles, although an attempt to keep her beam-on to the waves proved impossible. Once in the shelter of the Forth, the motion of the plates eased and the heart-stopping cracks each time a rivet failed occurred much less frequently. Although other ships were superficially more damaged than she was, Repulse was among the first into dock and she stayed there the longest. After just five days with the fleet, she was in for five months of repairs. However, when she sailed again, she was better than new.

Strategically, the battle changed nothing. By the evening of the 4th August, the Royal Navy had twenty-three battleships and three battlecruisers coaled and ready to fight. Germany had thirteen battleships ready for action. The Royal Navy's patrols of the northern North Sea were scarcely interrupted, and the flow of British trade across the oceans of the world was not disrupted at all. In the words of an American correspondent, writing from London,
‘At sea, the German Eagle has sunk its talons into the British Lion, but the Lion still has the stronger claws’.

By the end of October, the Battle Cruiser Fleet was effectively as strong as it had been before the battle. Another 15" gun ship, HMS Renown, had joined and was well on the way to being worked up, while HMAS Australia and HMS Queen Elizabeth were back in service, compensating for the loss of the Queen Mary and the Royal Oak.
Jellicoe transferred the three I-class ships to Scapa early that month, finally completing the plan to give the Grand Fleet a fast scout force to supplement the obsolete armoured cruisers, now seen to be inadequate following the loss of Minotaur and the crippling of Duke of Edinburgh.
The Grand Fleet itself was stronger too, with the addition of the Royal-class HMS Canada.
By contrast, the Imperial German Navy could not expect any replacements until the New Year. Britannia still ruled the waves, and she did so with more powerful ships than ever before.

Nevertheless, Stavanger had not been the battle that many expected, nor was it the battle that the public wanted; it was no new Trafalgar.
Instead, it seemed depressingly similar to the struggle that was going on in France. On the afternoon of the 31st August, Admiral Jellicoe did not lose the war, but nor did he come any closer to winning it.
 

perfectgeneral

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Monthly Donor
Superb!
A sensitive treatment of a tragic war through the lens of this upgraded sea battle. Nothing is bigger and better on that scale.

Having said that I eagerly await any after action battle damage assessment and recommendations.
 
Sounds like the Lion, Warspite and Repulse barely made it back and there was probably a lot of releived sighs aboard them and down in The Admiralty when those ships were docked. If the German building plan is going ahead, they'll get the Hindenberg (Lutzow class) and the Baden, they can't rush the Mackensen's really as there's going to be resource shortages that will slow her down.

I can't quite recall the RN's building program but both Repulse class ships are in service now, or entering service, and I think that's the end of the Battlecruiser production. The Royal's are still entering service (there was 4 laid down? 1's sunk) and I think that's the end of the RN Battleship building program until it gets revised following Jutland's lessons.

If we get something of a white peace following either a stunningly rare outbreak of common sense or a French collapse then we could see the Germans continue working on the Mack's or the Yorck's and there's probably going to be a RN answer although any naval treaty will be messed up by the presence of the Furious due to her size and 6 (or was it 9?) 18-inch guns.

I'm looking forwards to the assessments, recommendations and lessons learned.
 
Excellent assessment and again I would like to appreciate how excellent this TL has been and how realistic the battle has been written

With regards to the final comment - Admiral Jellicoe did not lose the war, but nor did he come any closer to winning it.

Given the time of the battle, weather conditions - geography and even taking into account mistakes made as well as the then technical limitations - unless Sheer hangs around and fights I don't think the Battle of Stavanger could go much better for the British or for that matter the Germans - and Sheer is not going to hang around much longer than when he understands that it is in fact 'he' who is the hunted and not in fact the hunter.

He quite sensibly picked up his ball and went home - and I don't blame him for it.

Jellicoe on the other hand was obliged to make a balance between maintaining his fleets cohesion as far as he was able to in order to fight the next day and not overly risk his fleet while the status quo was still being maintained in Britains favor
 
Superb!
A sensitive treatment of a tragic war through the lens of this upgraded sea battle. Nothing is bigger and better on that scale.

Having said that I eagerly await any after action battle damage assessment and recommendations.
Thank you.
It was a lot of fun to write, and even though the naval war has been a hobby of mine for years, there's always something new to find out about.

Even though tactically it has turned out to be just as indecisive as the real one, there will be changes rippling out.
It might lack the sheer trauma of the loss of the 3 BCs, but there were still nasty surprises for the RN.
For the Germans; they didn't lose, and their newest battleship did most of the damage that sank the RN's newest battleship. On the other hand, the sense that they can't force the issue might be even stronger than reality.
 
Thank you.
It was a lot of fun to write, and even though the naval war has been a hobby of mine for years, there's always something new to find out about.

Even though tactically it has turned out to be just as indecisive as the real one, there will be changes rippling out.
It might lack the sheer trauma of the loss of the 3 BCs, but there were still nasty surprises for the RN.
For the Germans; they didn't lose, and their newest battleship did most of the damage that sank the RN's newest battleship. On the other hand, the sense that they can't force the issue might be even stronger than reality.


Also as in OTL the Germans will be 'How the %^$& did the British ambush us...again?"
 
Sounds like the Lion, Warspite and Repulse barely made it back and there was probably a lot of releived sighs aboard them and down in The Admiralty when those ships were docked.
Definitely time to splice the mainbrace...
Having Repulse break in half on the way home would be a bit embarrassing ... among other things (Incidentally, it's not impossible that this is what happened to Hood in reality).

If the German building plan is going ahead, they'll get the Hindenberg (Lutzow class) and the Baden, they can't rush the Mackensen's really as there's going to be resource shortages that will slow her down.
Indeed, but with so little information over the last couple of years, the British might have to assume that the Germans are making progress at or near pre-war rates..
I can't quite recall the RN's building program but both Repulse class ships are in service now, or entering service, and I think that's the end of the Battlecruiser production. The Royal's are still entering service (there was 4 laid down? 1's sunk) and I think that's the end of the RN Battleship building program until it gets revised following Jutland's lessons.
There were 5 Royals. Royal George is delayed following a diversion of material to HMS Canada (a sister ship, part funded by the Dominion) and the Renowns, so she will complete in early 1917.
Other than that the RN has used up all the easy leftovers from pre-war, so nothing new will be along for some years.
If we get something of a white peace following either a stunningly rare outbreak of common sense or a French collapse then we could see the Germans continue working on the Mack's or the Yorck's and there's probably going to be a RN answer although any naval treaty will be messed up by the presence of the Furious due to her size and 6 (or was it 9?) 18-inch guns.

I'm looking forwards to the assessments, recommendations and lessons learned.

There will be elements of all of the above ... and more!
(and Furious is just a large light cruiser ... nothing to see there ... only six 15" 48-cal Mk.2, and she might be a bit quick ;))
 
(and Furious is just a large light cruiser ... nothing to see there ... only six 15" 48-cal Mk.2, and she might be a bit quick ;))
Please ignore the her 12" armor belt(albeit its not a very tall armor belt, that will presumably be fixed when(if) she gets a rebuild during the interwar era)...its honestly totally decorative in nature move along. As for changes from OTL lets hope the Admirals get a somewhat hasty redesign(albeit a sound one so they don't have the freeboard issues Hood had as related to her stern otl) and all 4 of them are completed before the WNT(or its equivalent) kills off capital ship production, since having 7 battlecruisers would be very useful in WW2, especially if the treasury coughs up the funds to rebuild the all of RN's capital ships in the interwar era.
 
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Probably better since Ottomans aren't in the war so the troops which otl where used against them can go to France or Italy
Would be an interesting twist that even with the naval changes that the British made, the Germans managed to win the war at land. We have to wait and see what the Americans do tho.
 
Excellent assessment and again I would like to appreciate how excellent this TL has been and how realistic the battle has been written

With regards to the final comment - Admiral Jellicoe did not lose the war, but nor did he come any closer to winning it.

Given the time of the battle, weather conditions - geography and even taking into account mistakes made as well as the then technical limitations - unless Sheer hangs around and fights I don't think the Battle of Stavanger could go much better for the British or for that matter the Germans - and Sheer is not going to hang around much longer than when he understands that it is in fact 'he' who is the hunted and not in fact the hunter.

He quite sensibly picked up his ball and went home - and I don't blame him for it.

Jellicoe on the other hand was obliged to make a balance between maintaining his fleets cohesion as far as he was able to in order to fight the next day and not overly risk his fleet while the status quo was still being maintained in Britains favor

Spot on.
Scheer still had much the same orders as in reality not to risk the fleet.
In part-thanks to his plot, he had a reasonable idea of where the enemy was and didn't spend the evening trying to breakthrough to the east.
He took a risk by cutting across the head of the Grand Fleet at night, but that's better than going in and around it and striking lucky that the RN didn't open fire every time one of his ships was sighted.
However, while his 'jaws' strategy worked somewhat, it left 1SG completely cut off in the later stages of the battle. A different turn at about 7pm and Beatty/Sturdee could probably have finished off two or three of Hipper's ships. I suspect they'll be keen not to let that happen again...

Jellicoe still had the chance to pursue Scheer, but he'd never do that into the threat of torpedoes. As you say, what he needed to do was end the battle while still in possession of a fleet.
 
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