Divergent Longitudes: an East-West swap scenario
- Thread starter shearsforest
- Start date
With that mind, perhaps the Asian Colonial Powers learn of the Pacific Ocean Currents and use those to their advantage.
Here's a bigger map.
If the currents are correct, then the Nipponese will probably get a head start on Colonization, landing either in OTL British Columbia or California and Baja C. The nations in South Huaxia would probably be the only ones able to threaten their stranglehold in Alt-North America. That probably leads to the not-Seven Years War of this TL.
The equatorial countercurrent would help lead Indonesian states, or whoever controls them, to Central America. Or maybe some SE Asian power tries its luck.
The real wild card is in South America. There's not a really easy way for any of the major contenders to easily reach the coast due to the SEC of the Southern Gyre. The East Australia current could work, but it'd be a very roundabout way to get there. Though, if there is a developed nation(s) in Australia and surrounding areas (likely settled by the Indonesians or SE Asians) by colonization time, they might be able to form the foundry of Alt-Latin America.
Very interesting idea.
My opinion is that, because it's impossible to make a 1:1 equivalence, different areas in East-Asia can be different European equivalents in different eras:
For example Korea can be "England" until the exploration era (so it will be easier to have a "Roman" invasion or a 100YW) and Japan can be Scandinavia (with early Wokou on the role of the Vikings). Then, on the 16th century, they switch and Japan became England (so there can be an explorer who arrives to Newfoundland->Vancouver or the late Wokou are Francis Drake and other pirats) and Korea became Scandinavia (so the Qing dynasty can be like the Swedens under Vassa, invading Russia and Germany, etc...)
But some aspects maybe never change: China has 1billion more inhabitants that EU. Not even adding north Africa, Levant, Anatolia, Caucasus and Ukraine will the Alternative PRC (Popular Roman Comune?) be close to that number.
My opinion is that, because it's impossible to make a 1:1 equivalence, different areas in East-Asia can be different European equivalents in different eras:
For example Korea can be "England" until the exploration era (so it will be easier to have a "Roman" invasion or a 100YW) and Japan can be Scandinavia (with early Wokou on the role of the Vikings). Then, on the 16th century, they switch and Japan became England (so there can be an explorer who arrives to Newfoundland->Vancouver or the late Wokou are Francis Drake and other pirats) and Korea became Scandinavia (so the Qing dynasty can be like the Swedens under Vassa, invading Russia and Germany, etc...)
But some aspects maybe never change: China has 1billion more inhabitants that EU. Not even adding north Africa, Levant, Anatolia, Caucasus and Ukraine will the Alternative PRC (Popular Roman Comune?) be close to that number.
Interesting idea. I'll incorporate this whenever I get around to doing a remake of this.
Last edited:
When will Asia turn into Europe.
At this point we've only seen Europe turn into Asia.
I've lost interest in this timeline for now, but I'd have dealt with what happened to China once the fall of the Western Roman Empire happened.
Nice map, but with this extended PRC you will not solve the population difference because:
a) Sahara and Arabia are deserts.
b) Iran and West Russia add 200 million people.
In addition you will face other problems, like where will be placed the european equivalents of Japan, Korea, Taiwan,etc...
The difference of population may be less big if China is not united and Europe is united. But
IMHO there is an interesting fact that affect the population that will be very hard to change:
My rough math yields (assuming the population was the same as OTL), a population of 1,398,664,000. That's only about a hundred million less than China. Taiwan and Korea analogues get tricky here. Maybe Ireland as Taiwan??
And then there's the issue of Korea. Britain is supposed to be Japan, and Ireland is Taiwan, leaving no other peninsula than Denmark to be the Korea analogue. That then leaves the problem of Scandinavia, which could be Russia. But some had also suggested France as Korea, due to both the Anglo-French rivalry mirroring that of Japan and Korea in OTL, as well as proximity.
Simply put, there's no 1-to-1-ing this. But I'm certain Britain is Japan, and Italy is central China.
An option:
Using The True Size web I just realized a nice solution for the West:
-North Korea is England
-South Korea is Scotland
-Taiwan is Ireland
-Japan is Scandinavia
-China is Continental Europe from Lisbon to Moscow + The Middle East + North Africa
-Mongolia is a Tuareg country on the Sahara
-South East asia will be subsaharian Africa
Using The True Size web I just realized a nice solution for the West:
-North Korea is England
-South Korea is Scotland
-Taiwan is Ireland
-Japan is Scandinavia
-China is Continental Europe from Lisbon to Moscow + The Middle East + North Africa
-Mongolia is a Tuareg country on the Sahara
-South East asia will be subsaharian Africa
Could work. Perhaps even having England turn into the "only Britain" Oceania headcanon for Nineteen Eighty-Four?
This'll be interesting.
Could work.
However... there's the problem of having Mongolia in Libya. I personally prefer having it somewhere in, say, Ukraine, because the vast steppeland allows for European-Mongolia to achieve a similar empire to its OTL equivalent.
Why using the border of modern China? Mongolia, Tibet and East Turkestan had only been conquered in the last centuries. China proper had however consistency been part of the Chinese civilization since Han Dynasty.
China proper is around 6,000 km2 which is just slightly smaller than Roman Empire at its greatest extent (5,000 km2)
I definitely agree with your overall point re: just using China Proper. But what are the exact borders you have in mind for China Proper and Rome's greatest extent?
I used Ming dynasty and Roman Empire at 117 AD as exemple but my ideal border of the Roman Empire is this one I drew last year
My latest project in mapping a modern day Roman Empire which is neither Roman nor Empire. I have always wanted to write a timeline where Roman Empire survived to present day but to be honest I am most interested about the present of a survived Roman Empire in future then write a timeline from the intitial POD. This world also included a more outlooked Chinese Empire. Nor would Christianity and Islam exist otherwise it would just become a boring world. Maybe I should even turn it into a graphic timeline?
So far I have planned the border of this empire would be along Vistula-Dniester, Caucasus, Azerbaijan-Iran border, Iraq-Iran border, Fertile Cerscent and then across Sahara. I am unsure that I should be included Britannia and rest of Arabia? Maybe move border down along Nile as well? For Sahara I think this is a fine border as it also included all valuable ressources such as petroleum and gas.
The empire would be a federation of some sort and be divided into regions, prefectures, dioceses and provinces. The regions are the largest administration division and province would the smallest division. Officially Roman Empire is one entity but unofficially it is divived into three regions: Latin, German and Greek with each own capital (Rome, Constantinople and Aachen/Cologne/Hamburg). Exarchates would be the fifth administration division but they are more similar to early modern colonies.
Of course, there's no reason there have to be exact 1-to-1 comparisons.
Even so, assuming that Britain = Japan, do we then assume that the Britons are the Yamato, and the Picts are the Ainu?
However, if we assume that Scandinavia = Japan, do we then assume that the North Germans are the Yamato, and the Saami as the Ainu?
In either case, I assume that the various north Europeans are basically "copy ALL the Roman things...oh, maybe some of it doesn't quite work, right let's just tweak these bits", like the Japanese and Koreans were IOTL - and, to a lesser extent, the various Tungusic and Mongolian peoples.
Even so, assuming that Britain = Japan, do we then assume that the Britons are the Yamato, and the Picts are the Ainu?
However, if we assume that Scandinavia = Japan, do we then assume that the North Germans are the Yamato, and the Saami as the Ainu?
In either case, I assume that the various north Europeans are basically "copy ALL the Roman things...oh, maybe some of it doesn't quite work, right let's just tweak these bits", like the Japanese and Koreans were IOTL - and, to a lesser extent, the various Tungusic and Mongolian peoples.
An interesting thought of mine is, how could an analogue to the Pacific Front of WWII would play out in this TL?