DBWI: No Zaporozhian Cossacks in the American Revolutionary War?

[British Biscuit]

O.O.C.: Inspired by this post.

I.C.: What if Catherine the Great rebuffed King George's request for Russian troops to ait the British in the American Revolutionary War? What if the Zaporozhian Cossacks never arrived in Boston in the 1775-76 period?

How would the War go?
What might be the long-term impact on North American culture?
Would there be any knock-on effects in Eastern Europe?
What would be the fate of George Washington in such a TL?
What about Otaman Petro Kalnyshevsky?

 

[Hvalrossen]

The Cossacks did not play a decisive role, and the American are just as likely to win .

Though some stories that relate to Petro's cossaks would not exist.

 

[Mooze17]

The Cossacks did not play a decisive role, and the American are just as likely to win .

This IS true, but I think what they were interested in was the cultural effects. After all, many of them, much like the Hessians, choose to stay in America after the war and many defected and received land grants, again like the Hessians. American Cossack culture never would have existed without them and the defection of Petro, much less the bolstering and revival it recieved from the Cossack Americans who came to America to flee De-Cossackization. That’s an entire ethnic group entirely butterflied away.

 

[Belisarius II]

Having Cossacks raiding across the American countryside would turn even more Americans against the British then Hessian brutality did. If Cossacks had arrived in Boston in 1775-76 they would've lost their horses, for lack of fodder.

 

[James Ricker]

A lot less troubles for the Russian Empire at home.
The writings of the American founding fathers were translated into Russian and smuggled back to Russia
(Thank you Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson)

 

[Mooze17]

Having Cossacks raiding across the American countryside would turn even more Americans against the British then Hessian brutality did. If Cossacks had arrived in Boston in 1775-76 they would've lost their horses, for lack of fodder.

OOC: A DBWI is a Double Blind What If. That means we are speculating in character on what would happen if the British DIDN’t bring Cossacks to America during the Revolutionary War from the point of view of a timeline where they DID. This isn’t a thread asking what happens if the British brought Cossacks to fight in the war from an OTL perspective.

 

[alexmilman]

Having Cossacks raiding across the American countryside would turn even more Americans against the British then Hessian brutality did. If Cossacks had arrived in Boston in 1775-76 they would've lost their horses, for lack of fodder.

Unless they change sides (see “The three headed eagle”).

 

[alexmilman]

O.O.C.: Inspired by this post.

I.C.: What if Catherine the Great rebuffed King George's request for Russian troops to ait the British in the American Revolutionary War? What if the Zaporozhian Cossacks never arrived in Boston in the 1775-76 period?

How would the War go?

Pretty much as it did, taking into an account that the Cossacks spent most of their time in Boston drinking (*) and after being abandoned by the Brits when they left Boston switched to the rebels side where, again, did not accomplish any miracles: there were too few if them, they did not speak English and they were not effective against the regular troops. Probably few estates of the loyalists would not be burned.

The Brits would easily find a substitute: the rulers of Hessen routinely offered their soldiers for hire.

_________
(*) Look at the map of Boston of that time: unloading light cavalry into the city connected to the main land by a narrow neck blocked by the enemy was one of the stupidest British operations ever: how were they supposed to get out and start doing some damage?

What might be the long-term impact on North American culture?

Cossack vodka would not be as popular as it is.

Would there be any knock-on effects in Eastern Europe?

Nope: presence of the extra couple thousands of them would not prevent Sich from being destroyed: by its location it became an useless pain the the butt.

However, Russia would not get Minorca, which would be a major impediment in its operations on the Med during the XVIII and XIX century.

What would be the fate of George Washington in such a TL?

Do you think that he would be defeated by the Hesssians?

What about Otaman Petro Kalnyshevsky?

Probably he would end up in prison after the Sich was destroyed. Definitely there would be no streets in MA named after him and no statue in Boston Public Garden.

 

[Vahktang]

Amendment III of the Constitution would be different.
It was written specifically because the Cossacks were there and what they did.
And then post every war it is brought up again and again.

 

[Kevin C. Smith]

I don't know how the war would have gone...but we would never have had their gloriously vulgar reply to George Washington Cromwell, once he had set himself up as Lord Protector of America, just before his crushing defeat at New Haven.
From Cromwell:
Lord Protector of America to the Zaporozhian Cossacks: As the Protector; son of Mary and Joseph; brother of the Only Begotten; grandson and viceroy of God; ruler of the kingdoms of Acadia, New England, Vermont, Upper and Lower Quebec; emperor of emperors; sovereign of sovereigns; extraordinary grenadier, never defeated; steadfast guardian of the tomb of Thomas Paine; trustee chosen by God Himself; the hope and comfort of Americans; confounder and great defender of Britons – I command you, the Zaporogian Cossacks, to submit to me voluntarily and without any resistance, and to desist from troubling me with your attacks.

Of course, we have all learned the reply in our grade school history classes, or read out again at the annual commemoration of the anniversary of the American Mutiny...but, really, it is always worth another read, isn't it?

Zaporozhian Cossacks to the American Protector!
O Protector, Yankee devil and damned devil's kith and kin, secretary to Lucifer himself. What the devil kind of soldier are thou, that canst not slay a hedgehog with your naked arse? The devil shits, and your army eats. Thou shalt not, thou son of a whore, make subjects of British sons. We have no fear of your army; by land and by sea we will battle with thee. Fuck thy mother.
Thou Floridian scullion, Pennsylvanian wheelwright, brewer of Jersey, goat-fucker of Alexandria, swineherd of Greater and Lesser Carolina, pig of Armenia, New York thief, catamite of Delaware, hangman of New Brunswick, and fool of all the world and underworld, an idiot before God, grandson of the Serpent, and the crick in our dick. Pig's snout, mare's arse, slaughterhouse cur, unchristened brow. Screw thine own mother!
So the Zaporozhians declare, you lowlife. You won't even be herding pigs for the Irish. Now we'll conclude, for we don't know the date and don't own a calendar; the moon's in the sky, the year with the Lord. The day's the same over here as it is over there; for this kiss our arse!

 

[JanWellem]

We have to look at where the American Cossacks' actions really mattered in US history, like the subduing of the Plains Indians in the early to mid 19th century and the subsequent opening of the Great Plains for white settlement, the fact that they came to dominate not only the cavalry in the US Army to a point, that even today Ataman is still a military rank in the US Cavalry Air Cossacks helicopter force, or in the form of the Texas Cossacks state militia, but that the term Cossack came to denote pretty much every kind of horseback activity out West, from cow cossacks, known to every child from Western / American Cossack movies to the Cossack Express Mail Service before the construction of the first transcontinental telegraph. The American Cossack has become the poster child representing American values, to a point, where both Marlboro and Camel used them as motifs in their ads and characters in their commercials, with Marlboro known for the stereotypical cow cossack and Camel for the Cossack Camel Force rider.

 

[thezerech]

For one I'm sure that Harvard University wouldn't have the stellar Ukrainian Research Institute it has today!

You guys are forgetting something, the Zaporizhian Cossacks weren't actually the excellent cavalry they're thought off, historically they were all either light infantry or naval infantry, cavalry forces were either haphazardly formed for scouting purposes by larger Cossack armies, or raised by minor nobles/wealthy cossacks on their own dimes. Reaching into the 16th-century things are more nebulous but that's outside the purview of the Zaporizhian Cossacks and far enough back not to be a factor. The Cossacks which went with Otaman Petro Kalnyshevsky eventually did defect to the Continentals and their skills with ships and marine warfare were crucial in using river crossings to defeat the British, who could imagine Washington crossing the Delaware on anything but a small Cossack Chaika!

The Zaporizhians who had gone to the U.S in 1775 were not a huge number, but many Ukrainian cossacks left Russian occupied territory and some went to Ottoman service, others, like Mazepa or Orlyk had gone to Sweden (Orlyk's son was a French General, but he died during the 7 years war, perhaps if he'd lived he could have played an instrumental part in this). After '75 more Ukrainians emigrated to the Americas, their frontiersmanship was excellent and while demographically they probably did not play a major role in early America, the vast amount of Ukrainian immigration during the 19th and 20th centuries to the U.S is probably part of this.

The Kalnyshevsky Cathedral wouldn't exist in Boston today, which would be a shame, since it's a wonderful building and one of the few examples of Mazepa Baroque outside of Ukraine.

The Cossack Regiment, with its own traditions and rituals did not last long after the end of the war, but the role of Cossacks in settling what's now the Mid-West, states like Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois is worth mentioning. The Great Lakes region would not be the same without modified chaikas.