DBWI - No Communist India

Has a Communist India been good for the region ?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 51.6%
  • No

    Votes: 44 48.4%

  • Total voters
    91
Today we all know that Communist India, Alongside its so called "Blood Brother" Communist China, have emerged as Rising Superpowers, Being the Largest Economy in the world, Just a bit more than China's Economy, From Invading Afghanistan to protect the Communist Government there to Forcefully annexing Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bhutan to be a part the Country, India has been always one of the West's Biggest enemies during the Cold War era, Today, they have become increasingly more powerful and influential in Asia Due to their economy and military.

So hypothetically, how could this Communist India have not existed in an ATL ?, What if Bhagat Singh was not able to escape from British and spread his Communist Ideals, What if Protesters were not brutally killed in 1918 In Ahmadabad , or What if the movement became more Nationalistic and Religious than being Secular, Near Atheistic Approach and based more on Class Struggle along with Nationalism, how will it have affected the world ?
 

Dolan

Banned
The aggressive expansionism of Communist China and India is the very reason why US and the West still backed the Empires of Japan, Thailand, and Vietnam despite their not-so-stellar records of human rights. Because without them, Asia might ended up completely Red.

And yeah, without China and India "Paying Their Historic Debt" by supporting the Soviet Union, the later might actually fall instead of merely "transformed" into "bastion of Communist Intellectualism", or basically being dependants on their once junior partners to keep the Soviets fed and their military oiled. The Soviet Russians are pretty chill with their status as glorified, but actually weak elder brother though, as they are still the intellectual center of Communist intelligentsia (but otherwise all industrial, agricultural, and even military powers are mostly split between India and China.
 
How many tens of millions died of famine in the 60s? They would still be alive for one. As would the various Hindus and Muslims killed in then various purges of religious groups.

Would there be the massive Indian expat community in the West without it?
 
Would there be the massive Indian expat community in the West without it?
Or the state which is "Free India", which controls the Andaman and Nicobar islands as a "Republic of India", even if anyone knows that it is a utter joke, even most of the Indian National Congress running the islands.
 
The aggressive expansionism of Communist China and India is the very reason why US and the West still backed the Empires of Japan, Thailand, and Vietnam despite their not-so-stellar records of human rights. Because without them, Asia might ended up completely Red.

And yeah, without China and India "Paying Their Historic Debt" by supporting the Soviet Union, the later might actually fall instead of merely "transformed" into "bastion of Communist Intellectualism", or basically being dependants on their once junior partners to keep the Soviets fed and their military oiled. The Soviet Russians are pretty chill with their status as glorified, but actually weak elder brother though, as they are still the intellectual center of Communist intelligentsia (but otherwise all industrial, agricultural, and even military powers are mostly split between India and China.
That is true, without the Chinese and Indian Intervention in what they called "Repayment of Historic Debt", Soviet Union might fall, perhaps even brutally like the Yugoslavia, so that is one good thing about the Indian Communists
 
How many tens of millions died of famine in the 60s? They would still be alive for one. As would the various Hindus and Muslims killed in then various purges of religious groups.

Would there be the massive Indian expat community in the West without it?
Yes,Many millions died due to hasty policies and forced industrialization, which might change the demographics of the country today,
India thankfully did not adopt the one child policy like China, but a series of family planning and sex education, as such the Population despite being biggest in the world( nearly 1.5 billion), I wonder will a India that is not communist will be able to make such reforms
 
Or the state which is "Free India", which controls the Andaman and Nicobar islands as a "Republic of India", even if anyone knows that it is a utter joke, even most of the Indian National Congress running the islands.
Didnt they try to Conquer Sri Lanka along with Americans to provide a Bulwark against India like how Taiwan is to China, but failed miserably, still, they are a joke, but how big is the US Fleet there ?
 

Dolan

Banned
That is true, without the Chinese and Indian Intervention in what they called "Repayment of Historic Debt", Soviet Union might fall, perhaps even brutally like the Yugoslavia, so that is one good thing about the Indian Communists
Yugoslavia tried to be independent of the Soviet Union, they once tried to organize the "Non-aligned" side, but ultimately fall because of corruption and mismanagement.

Contrast that with both India and China, who while have their own blunders during the 60s, keep toeing the official Internationale line of Moscow, and ended up growing strong under Soviet tutelage, hence the "Historic Debt" and propping up the Soviet Union and most of Eastern European nations during the 90s Economic Crisis which saw Poland, Hungary, and Eastern Germany overthrown their Communist government, and the aforementioned fall of Yugoslavia, but Chinese-Indian rice helping the Soviets to reform themselves into what they are today.

Still, Westerners did not want to add India into the seven permanent seat at the UN security council, but yeah, Soviet Union is pretty much voicing India's opinions already, so...
 
Would there be the massive Indian expat community in the West without it?
I do not think so, Majority of the Expats to west were Fleeing due to their political or religious affiliation, as the Communists In India were hellbent on killing anyone they felt was a threat, however, remember Majority of Indians in west are Hindus with a Muslim, Sikh and Christian Minorities, Many Muslims however fled to Gulf States Like Qatar or Saudi Arabia and Bahrain, I wonder how those countries would be with out this influx of Ultra Conservative Muslim Influx
 
Yugoslavia tried to be independent of the Soviet Union, they once tried to organize the "Non-aligned" side, but ultimately fall because of corruption and mismanagement.

Contrast that with both India and China, who while have their own blunders during the 60s, keep toeing the official Internationale line of Moscow, and ended up growing strong under Soviet tutelage, hence the "Historic Debt" and propping up the Soviet Union and most of Eastern European nations during the 90s Economic Crisis which saw Poland, Hungary, and Eastern Germany overthrown their Communist government, and the aforementioned fall of Yugoslavia, but Chinese-Indian rice helping the Soviets to reform themselves into what they are today.

Still, Westerners did not want to add India into the seven permanent seat at the UN security council, but yeah, Soviet Union is pretty much voicing India's opinions already, so...
Yes, Yugoslavia did fail, that was however foreseen as they were seen by USA as Communist and USSR as non Communist, which meant they were always sidelined in any negotiations and were seen as not trust worthy

India and China, specifically India felt Compelled to Prop up Soviets as Soviets had Helped India during its initial Years, so yes, Without India, you can assume Soviets fall, I wonder How Afghanistan would be without India, As It was India who Propped up and Saved Communists in Afghanistan and essentially Purged or Exiled all the Islamist, who later would see success in Iran, So I wonder how it would affect the History there
(OOC - Which are the Six countries of UNSC in TTL ?
 
@Dolan
One thing that is bugging me is that How are India and China still good friends, they have a demilitarized border and nearly equal level of economic, Social and military development , shouldn't they be rivals in the geopolitical scene ?
 
Non-communist India? Caste, religious war, and much lower literacy. Sorry, Indian governance before the twentieth century was just not all that impressive.

OK, much fewer high caste Indians moving to English speaking countries, which has a big effect on who is doing the professional jobs in those countries.
 
Non-communist India? Caste, religious war, and much lower literacy. Sorry, Indian governance before the twentieth century was just not all that impressive.

OK, much fewer high caste Indians moving to English speaking countries, which has a big effect on who is doing the professional jobs in those countries.
Well, that us true, Today India is Largely Atheistic in its religious composition(70% Atheists 20% Native Indian Beliefs 10% everyone else) but in 1930s and 1940s, it was very religous, with it being a deciding factor in life, it even superceded ethnicity or language, something that frequently caused riots between Muslims and Traditional Indian Beliefs, Often collectively known.as Hindus, but they had extremely different beliefs systems within it, nearly as diverse as pre Christian european religions all put together
I agree, unless a dictatorship comes, all these factions fight a civil war with each other
 
Yes,Many millions died due to hasty policies and forced industrialization, which might change the demographics of the country today,
India thankfully did not adopt the one child policy like China, but a series of family planning and sex education, as such the Population despite being biggest in the world( nearly 1.5 billion), I wonder will a India that is not communist will be able to make such reforms
Somehow I doubt anything but a communist society would be able to do what India did. Most of the capitalist nations at that time, still subscribed to Mathusian economics and would have preferred another war to reduce their population as required, but the Mutually Assured Destruction policy prevented them from that. Still that didn't stop dictators like Pinochet in South America from 'culling' non-capitalist sentiment from the people of his country.
 

Dolan

Banned
@Dolan
One thing that is bugging me is that How are India and China still good friends, they have a demilitarized border and nearly equal level of economic, Social and military development , shouldn't they be rivals in the geopolitical scene ?
That was pretty much (quite ironically) the effect of Buddhist-Communism commonly practiced as secular spirituality in their midst (in contrast with Soviet Union). According to their interpretation, Siddhartha Gautama was the first Communist and the Sangha is his attempt to bring "Enlightenment" to the masses peacefully.

Yeah, Buddhism is not treated as religion (or at least a harmless one), and while religious-bent Bilkhu exists, the usage of Buddhism as common secular spirituality has been successful in bringing common history between China and India, with many myths being reinterpreted with Marxist-Leninist worldview.
 
Contrast that with both India and China, who while have their own blunders during the 60s, keep toeing the official Internationale line of Moscow, and ended up growing strong under Soviet tutelage, hence the "Historic Debt" and propping up the Soviet Union and most of Eastern European nations during the 90s Economic Crisis which saw Poland, Hungary, and Eastern Germany overthrown their Communist government, and the aforementioned fall of Yugoslavia, but Chinese-Indian rice helping the Soviets to reform themselves into what they are today.
That "repaying historical debt" was in reality India and China bartering the USSR with excess rice and modern industrial equipment in exchange for locked-in rights for oil and mineral rights. Now the Soviets can barely export anything to the west without haggling with Delhi and Beijing. What a stunning reversal of fortunes!
 
Somehow I doubt anything but a communist society would be able to do what India did. Most of the capitalist nations at that time, still subscribed to Mathusian economics and would have preferred another war to reduce their population as required, but the Mutually Assured Destruction policy prevented them from that. Still that didn't stop dictators like Pinochet in South America from 'culling' non-capitalist sentiment from the people of his country.
That is true, while India did do effective Family planning measures, it did come along with strict and totalitarian measures. especially against Religious leaders as well as tribal populations in north west of India, where tribal regions are almost rebelled
 
That was pretty much (quite ironically) the effect of Buddhist-Communism commonly practiced as secular spirituality in their midst (in contrast with Soviet Union). According to their interpretation, Siddhartha Gautama was the first Communist and the Sangha is his attempt to bring "Enlightenment" to the masses peacefully.

Yeah, Buddhism is not treated as religion (or at least a harmless one), and while religious-bent Bilkhu exists, the usage of Buddhism as common secular spirituality has been successful in bringing common history between China and India, with many myths being reinterpreted with Marxist-Leninist worldview.
Yes, That is true, Buddha was technically an Atheist and as such, it can be used for something positive, It does show how hypocritical these Governments could be, For example, China Invaded the Buddhist nation of Tibet, when the Dalai Lama and his followers fleed to India, all of them except were killed, ending the Dalai Lama Practice that had been going on since 1300s, and has caused an Innumerable Harm to the Indian Religions and Culture, Indian Religions and Monks(collectively called Hindus) had been reduced to Ashes in India as they were seen as the progenitors of Caste System and were killed, Hindus had to flee to UK, USA and Australia to survive and even though most of Hindu teachings are preserved in these western Countries, Most in India has been destroyed.
Islam Suffered even more than Hinduism, It's Black and White Stance on Atheism and Strong Adherence to Monotheism meant that they were Targeted, Especially the Religous Elites, who were targeted and killed by ex-muslims communists, Islam went from 30% of the population to less than 5% of the population, many centers of Islamic Culture Such as Bengal, Punjab and Uttar Pradesh were wiped out and replaced by a Atheistic Culture, with other following suit, It is actually really impressive how much Religiosity Communist Party of India has reduced in the country
 
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