Okay, so a lot of timelines on this site seem to have a rough equivalent to the September 13th attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the White House being carried out by Islamic Terrorists from abroad instead of Neo-Nazis from within the United States.

I did some research on this, and apparently Afghani Dictator Osama bin Laden actually had plans for some remarkably similar attacks by pure coincidence, but scrapped them for whatever reason.

Now, most of the "Islamic 9/13" timelines diverge a lot farther back than just Osama deciding to actually commit an attack similar to 9/13. (Imperium Americanum* for example, is striking in that it diverges from OTL in the 1700s), so this WI simply asks "what if the TL remains pretty much the same as OTL (with a few minor but necessary changes) until 9/13 is carried out by Islamic Terrorists instead of Neo-Nazis?"

*OOC: I made that TL up out of thin air. I have no idea what it's about. Feel free to fill that in as we go on.
 
Okay, so a lot of timelines on this site seem to have a rough equivalent to the September 13th attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the White House being carried out by Islamic Terrorists from abroad instead of Neo-Nazis from within the United States.

I did some research on this, and apparently Afghani Dictator Osama bin Laden actually had plans for some remarkably similar attacks by pure coincidence, but scrapped them for whatever reason.

Now, most of the "Islamic 9/13" timelines diverge a lot farther back than just Osama deciding to actually commit an attack similar to 9/13. (Imperium Americanum* for example, is striking in that it diverges from OTL in the 1700s), so this WI simply asks "what if the TL remains pretty much the same as OTL (with a few minor but necessary changes) until 9/13 is carried out by Islamic Terrorists instead of Neo-Nazis?"

*OOC: I made that TL up out of thin air. I have no idea what it's about. Feel free to fill that in as we go on.
I think to say if it were carried out by Islamists as in Imperium Americanum it would definitely make the US intervene and possibly be stuck there as in IA making unlike the current TL where the KKK and other hate groups are still being hunted down as we speak
OCC: Could the Current TL be the IA TL?
 
I mean... It's hard to say. Sure, 9/13 was a tragic moment, definitely more than Challenger, but to be real how much of a cultural impact did it have? The number of Neo Nazis in the US around that time barely topped 10,000 (and people did deep dives), and hasent gone up since. The most impressive part was how easy it was for even a few wackaloons to get past our non-existent flight security checks, and so quadrupled our time getting into air ports. Nobody, statistically speaking, liked Nazism in this country before and even fewer did after. Islamism, on the other hand... that has adherents all over the world. How on earth can you predict the impact of them getting a bee in their metaphorical Burqua over... what?
 
I mean... It's hard to say. Sure, 9/13 was a tragic moment, definitely more than Challenger, but to be real how much of a cultural impact did it have?

What are you talking about? The cultural impact was huge! I mean, if you look at the number of neo-Nazis in the United States (which I see you did), it hasn't increased, and, in fact has slightly but noticeably decreased, but that's only part of the story.

For one thing, 9/13 caused a second "Brown Scare" in the United States (the first one was in the 1930s). It wasn't as bad as McCarthyism (well, mostly), but it still caused quite a bit of chaos, and it caused American politics to take a sharp turn to the left.

This, combined with the Bush administration's lackluster response to 9/13, basically killed the Republican party's chance of winning the presidency anytime soon (although a lot of Republicans are still getting elected to regional positions or to the House of Representatives, especially in the South), which is why we saw 12 years of Democratic dominance in the White House followed by a literal Socialist (or, at least, a literal member of Socialist Party USA) of all things being elected president* (and no, I still don't know whether this is just a fluke, a sign of the death of the two-party system, or if it signifies the gradual death of the Republican party).

Also, it was a huge wake-up call. We had defeated all enemies abroad who posed a significant threat (although Russia and China still aren't on friendly terms, they tend to keep to themselves and aren't outright hostile towards us), but we'd allowed dangerous and outright evil ideologies to fester within our country. We did have new enemies, but they were domestic, not foreign.

This, of course, had a huge impact on pop culture. It gave a huge boost to the popularity of the Dystopian speculative fiction genre, and even directly led to the film adaptation of Sinclair Lewis' It Can't Happen Here (yes, really. The butterflies of 9/13 never happening would have almost definitely resulted in It Can't Happen Here not being made into a movie, which would, of course, be a huge shame, considering how great of a movie it was).

*OOC: The reason I had a socialist get elected TTL was because radical ideologies (regardless of whether they're left-wing or right-wing) tend to draw young people who are disillusioned with the current system, and with a violent terrorist attack by neo-nazis in the recent past, they'd probably be much more inclined to go left instead of right than OTL. I'm sorry if this is based on faulty assumptions.
 
(OOC:We'll just have to disagree on the assumptions of the setting than. I fail to see how without an earlier POD or some huge insitgating event the Neo-Nazis, who are a tiny and politically and socially impotent group at the time, could be remotely wide spread enough to be the genuine social cancer of the size and threat this setting creates. A heavy handed authoritarian crackdown on anything right of center and the mainstream culture going left would make IT the "current system" as these kids grow up, so if you're suggesting they are bucking the trend and lashing out against conformity and restrictions I'd argue the logical conclusion would be a resurgence of the repressed Right.

It's your thread though)
 
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