Cinco de Mayo

KingSweden24, did you read any books for the timeline Cinco De Mayo. Reading historical books can give you a greater understanding of what might have been. Twilight of the Valkyrie and Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond had their authors read books in order to portray their scenarios as accurately as possible.
 
Hartington: Britain's First Modern Prime Minister
"...the Liberal Cabinet that the Lord Hartington convened in the spring of 1878 was in many ways the great crop of the Liberal Party of the day. Gladstone was of course one of the grand voices of the party, but in his age and the polarized public opinion around him, Hartington feared giving him too great a platform from which to dominate government; it was thus that the Grand Old Man of the 1860s, who had lost two eminently winnable elections against the Tories (even in accounting for the restricted electorate pre-Reform Act), was made Lord President of the Council, an office that was treated as little more than a sinecure and was interpreted by the embittered Gladstone as such. It was Granville, the party's leader in the House of Lords, that the most important task of running the Foreign Office went. Hartington was convinced that in the last decade of Tory rule, Britain had squandered much of its global leadership role, especially with France and Germany's sudden rise as peer competitors on the continent. He also feared rising Anglophobia in the United States; Carnarvon's dedication to Canada, mixed with fishing and trade disputes lasting back years and memories of the Palmerston government's support for the Confederacy during the independence war, made repairing relations with the booming USA of paramount importance to the new Prime Minister [1]. The esteemed William Harcourt was dispatched to the Home Office, and as Chancellor of the Exchequer a role was found for Hugh Childers. It was a Cabinet led aggressively from the Commons, with an eye on the radical Liberals inspired by Gladstone and organized under the young National Liberal Foundation, led by former Birmingham Mayor Joseph Chamberlain. Hartington viewed Chamberlain warily, and was offended at the ambitious man's request for a Cabinet office, laced with the threat of running Radical candidates outside of the Liberal tent; Chamberlain received the Presidency of the Board of Trade [2], and his ally John Bright the Colonial Office, places where they would be satisfied yet also keep quiet and not bother the government. To oversee the restive Irish Question, with the Land War in full swing, where Hartington was torn in two directions by his sympathy for the impoverished Irishman with the political realities of the unpopularity of Fenianism in England and Wales, he dispatched his cousin Lord Spencer to be Lord Lieutenant, and appointed William Edward Forster to serve as Chief Secretary of Ireland [3]. Finally, to round out his Cabinet, he gave the Secretary of War position to his brother, Lord Frederick Cavendish [4], under the expectation that the younger Cavendish brother would be groomed for a Great Office in due time..."

- Hartington: Britain's First Modern Prime Minister


[1] I was originally going to make Gladstone the Foreign Secretary but realized that that would probably *not* be the most prudently diplomatic choice considering the man's lack of filter, strong opinions, and loud support of the Confederacy in the early 1860s
[2] As in OTL
[3] Those read in Irish history may know him instead as "Buckshot" Forster
[4] Also an important figure in Liberal relationship to Ireland IOTL, albeit for more tragic reasons
 
Wait what? The Tories spent the last fifteen or so years driving the country into a ditch and the voters reward them with a return to power a few years later? One of three things must have happened.

1 - No/very limited electoral reform/franchise legislation between 1878 and the mid 1880s
2 - The Liberals must somehow be worse from 1878 to to the mid 1880s than the Tories were from 1870-1878.
3 - The electorate drank lead paint and it made them forget the 1870s entirely.
It'll be a reason not on this list ;)
 
Did you read any books for research when doing this timeline. You've had a reference list included.
I've read some various academic articles I've stumbled across (and lots and lots of Wikipedia), but I haven't drawn any inspiration from other published works of alternate history. (I've incorporated some thoughts from various discussion threads on this site and have checked out other timelines that cover the same period I'm writing in order to see if there's any historical figures I can use that I haven't uncovered in my own research, though I try to avoid doing that as much as possible)

The footnotes on my posts are there purely as commentary, musings or justifications for the contents of my updates
 
I've read some various academic articles I've stumbled across (and lots and lots of Wikipedia), but I haven't drawn any inspiration from other published works of alternate history. (I've incorporated some thoughts from various discussion threads on this site and have checked out other timelines that cover the same period I'm writing in order to see if there's any historical figures I can use that I haven't uncovered in my own research, though I try to avoid doing that as much as possible)

The footnotes on my posts are there purely as commentary, musings or justifications for the contents of my updates
By books I mean the ones about the Second Franco-Mexican War, the American Civil War and other conflicts and events.
 
By books I mean the ones about the Second Franco-Mexican War, the American Civil War and other conflicts and events.
I've read a fair bit on the ACW. The Second Mexican Empire is largely new territory for me only explored via writing this timeline.
 
Socioeconomics in Mexico: A Study
"...by 1880, between population growth and immigration, Mexico's population was over 12 million, and would grow by nearly 20% over the next decade, driven by two factors: one, continued large scale immigration from Europe, particularly Catholic states to whom the state religion of Mexico appealed, and second, by its high birth rates and burgeoning economic stability. Even the 1882-84 Caudillo War did not displace Mexico's rapid rise.

Consider - the period between the declaration of the Empire in 1862 (it would take some time for Maximilian of Hapsburg-Lorraine to be coronated and feel truly comfortable in his new land, of course) to the outbreak of the Revolt of the Caudillos was the longest period of stability and prosperity in Mexican history up until that point. Silver mining became a commodity export that drove European (and, after French military presence in Mexico declined, American) investment in the 1860s, the Tehuantepec Railway gave the New World her most efficient connection between Atlantic and Pacific in the 1870s, and after a decade of small-scale exploitation, the sophistication of the oil industry burgeoned at the end of that decade and by 1890 Mexico had the second-largest oil industry in the world, behind only the United States (where Standard Oil's monopoly under John D. Rockefeller was only increasing). Mexico had limited power projection via her Navy but from the ports of Acapulco and Guaymas had a considerably more prominent Pacific squadron than the United States at this point and by the late 1880s was establishing a fairly robust trade network with the Far East thanks to her partnership with the Spanish via Manila.

Of course, it is important to remember that despite Mexico's success with silver, rail infrastructure, light industry and petroleum, it was still a profoundly unequal country economically, culturally and geographically. European immigrants were able to join the growing middle class with ease, while mestizo families were definitively a class below, to say nothing of indigenous persons. The country's forested, Maya-inhabited south and its vast, poor north along the border with the Confederacy had seen remarkably little improvement in their state of affairs despite the abolition of peonage and Mexico's celebrated economic vibrancy in this era; departments such as Sonora, Oaxaca, Chiapas, or Nayarit were the backbone of anti-monarchist and anti-industrialist sentiment in this time, where large hacendados and the Church dominated the populace like they always had. Far from the wide European-style boulevards of Mexico City and Guadalajara, and the teeming docks of Acapulco and Veracruz, was the other Mexico; where families had as many children as they could due to infant mortality, where they still sent their children to Catholic-operated schools, often Jesuit, rather than the secular
gimnasias in the Altiplano where criollo and "continentale" families sent their children to be intellectually challenged and prepare for a life in the new Mexican bourgeoisie. It was in this fertile garden that the shoots of opposition to the Imperial government began to grow again, nearly twenty years after the defeat of the Republican armies and death of liberal leader Benito Juarez..."

- Socioeconomics in Mexico: A Study

EDIT: Based on my math regarding Mexico's population in a later update, I have retcon Mexico's population to be 12 million here rather than just 9. Whoops!
 
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Frederick and Victoria: Consorts of Germany
"...Fritz's first task was to heal a grieving nation and present a front of stability to a wounded Germany. In that sense, it was business as usual - the Iron Chancellor chose the path forward and dedicated himself to it. Having already mulled ending the Kulturkampf, now the monarchy itself was in danger and Bismarck needed the support of all of Germany's conservatives, including the Catholic ones in the Center Party, to forge ahead. And so the Kulturkampf ended with a whimper, having brought South German Catholics into politics as a voting bloc and turned the country's bishops to the ultramontanist camp, complicating his foreign relations as negotiations over the Papacy's return to Rome threatened to plunge Italy into civil conflict. While this was of course a move that would be considered liberal by today's standards, it was in fact a concession Fritz was profoundly unhappy about. Famously anticlerical in his time, though that aspect of his personality is largely forgotten now, the new Kaiser had sought to break the influence of the Church in Germany even further. Bismarck's next move further ruined the strained relationship between Kaiser and Chancellor when he abolished the Socialist Party and passed a number of laws severely restricting socialist activity. Fritz was appalled, and Empress Victoria suggested he sack Bismarck as a show of strength. The move was well-received enough by the public, and the country was still reeling after the Old Kaiser's death; another crisis early in Frederick's reign was thus avoided, and their mutual grief eventually brought the frosty relationship between the two men to a begrudging understanding..."

- Frederick and Victoria: Consorts of Germany
 

dcharleos

Donor
KingSweden24, did you read any books for the timeline Cinco De Mayo. Reading historical books can give you a greater understanding of what might have been. Twilight of the Valkyrie and Wrapped in Flames: The Great American War and Beyond had their authors read books in order to portray their scenarios as accurately as possible.
Is that supposed to sound as smug as it comes across?
 
Danger of what? took 4 years of war and a country meddling when was not called to collapse...
A socialist capping the uniter of Germany would probably lend to a different contemporary attitude, but that's just me *shrug emoji*

Chalk it up to hyperbole haha
 
A socialist capping the uniter of Germany would probably lend to a different contemporary attitude, but that's just me *shrug emoji*

Chalk it up to hyperbole haha
One time i would wrote that Friederich III anglophila got his ousted but alas...is not the time
 
One time i would wrote that Friederich III anglophila got his ousted but alas...is not the time
I think you could make an interesting TL with a surviving Friedrich III and his Anglophilia doing him in! That's not quite the direction we'll go here, though, since Germany would probably like having Britain as a bulwark against the Iron Triangle in this case, Italy being a basket case and their "ally" Russia having just been punched in the mouth by the Ottomans, of all people
 
Longtime reader here, I was wondering what the immigration situation is in the USA, the CSA, and Mexico: who is winning the title for 1880’s Melting Pot of Nations?
 
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