Byzantine Fail to retake Crete in 961 / Emirate of Crete survive longer

From 960 to 961 Nikephoros Phokas Byzantine future emperor and brillant military leader lead the Byzantine reconquest of Crete from the Emirate of Crete (824-961) what if the Arab relief force manage to surprise and decisively defeat the byzantine (inverse happened OTL) killing Nikephoros Phokas in the battle and ending the siege of Chandax and Byzantine effort for the time to retake Crete . Also following the victory the Emirate become a Fatimid backed state and manage to hold on Crete for another century . How the power balance and situation in eastern Med is affected ?
 
power balance and situation in eastern Med is affected ?
Crete would be very muslim later on, even they could fend off crusaders too, how this will afect Cyprus? that way we see more muslim prescence on the meditteranean and greek archipelago...that is a massive butterfly itself. Can be enough make bolder or empower Fatimids? plus we bring more chaos the ERE....that will be fun
 
Realistically bardas phokas and John Tzimiskes lead an invasion some years later and win buts that's not fun
I say this because it already happened in 949 so again the Byzantines will try again after they are done in the east in the plus side bardas phokas first rebellion is most likely butterfield if he is made emperor
 
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Cyprus will probably stay in the same weird previous statu quo or be annexed by the Fatimid if they are willing don’t think the ERE could make a move in that situation . Now the true question for me is if the Byzantine resurgence of the period is still more likely to happen (conquest of Bulgaria, Cilicia Northern Syria) ? . I definitely see the Fatimid as more empowered here
 
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Realistically bardas phokas and John Tzimiskes lead an invasion some years later and win buts that's not fun
I say this because it already happened in 949 so again the Byzantines will try again after they are done in the east in the plus side bardas phokas first rebellion is most likely butterfield if he is made emperor

Yep that likely but seeing the ability of the Emirate to defeat and hold against numerous Byzantines tentative i’m guessing that with active Fatimid support they could probably hold for at least another half century
 
Cyprus will probably stay in the same weird previous statu quo or be annexed by the Fatimid if they are willing don’t think the ERE could make a move in that situation . Now the true question for me is if the Byzantine resurgence of the period is still more likely to happen (conquest of Bulgaria, Cilicia Northern Syria) ? . I definitely see the Fatimid as more empowered here
Yep that likely but seeing the ability of the Emirate to defeat and hold against numerous Byzantines tentative i’m guessing that with active Fatimid support they could probably hold for at least another half century
Even Longer i think Crete is a perfect starting point for the medditeranean and they could for Cyprus as the ERE might be busy with the impact of the casualties.
 
Even Longer i think Crete is a perfect starting point for the medditeranean and they could for Cyprus as the ERE might be busy with the impact of the casualties.
I think how long he can hold depend on the situation and how much the Byzantine are weakened but I can see the Emirate survive until 1100 without to much problem and far longer if the ERE is no longer a menace (in a Byz screw scenario) . But the existence of the Emirate would be interesting in possible alter Turkic conquest of Anatolia and crusade
 
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I think how long he can hold depend on the situation and how much the Byzantine are weakened but I can see the Emirate survive until 1100 without to much problem and far longer if the ERE is no longer a menace (in a Byz screw scenario) . But the existence of the Emirate would be interesting in possible alter Turkic conquest of Anatolia and crusade
That is a big butterfly itself, more if took smaller aegan islands too on the meanwhile. the posibilities are endless
 
Yep that likely but seeing the ability of the Emirate to defeat and hold against numerous Byzantines tentative i’m guessing that with active Fatimid support they could probably hold for at least another half century
Yes that is true depends assuming bardas phokas becomes emperor he heads to the east first like nikephoros phokas the east would be defeated Cilicia would be reconquered aside from nikephoros the other comanders where still alive
I don't know for how long bardas would rule but after he reconquered cilicia he migth try for Crete in 970s
Assuming that he is alive he is most likely killed like nikephoros and taking over by John Tzimiskes who would most likely sent another force if one hasn't been launched already
If bardas phokas does become emperor and dies basil wont have to deal with him

As for worse case scenario assuming that Jonh becomes emperor maybe bardas phokas rebels I mean he did so because very specific reasons under basil and sure did he did rebell after jonh but thar was mooching of nikephoros success as Emperor
When bardas rebelled for a second time he dealt with an unexperienced basil and even that that civil war didn't collapse the empire
His first rebellion was even shorter as the other dealt with him quite quickly so yeah
This is why unless the Arabs of Crete have full support from the Fatimid caliphate they would be in trouble on the other hand the butterflies could mean a longer living John Tzimiskes and or no bardas phokas rebellion
 
I have something interesting...
- the failure of reconquest leads to more islamization of the island
- Between 1000 and 1050 AD some Normans invade the island
- If successful, the Normans consider converting to islam

Boom! Islamic Normans in the Eastern Mediterranean. The Fatimids offer formal protection though if the Seljuks still enter and successfully keep most of Anatolia and the Coast, they may be the new protectors of the islands.
 
I have something interesting...
- the failure of reconquest leads to more islamization of the island
- Between 1000 and 1050 AD some Normans invade the island
- If successful, the Normans consider converting to islam

Boom! Islamic Normans in the Eastern Mediterranean. The Fatimids offer formal protection though if the Seljuks still enter and successfully keep most of Anatolia and the Coast, they may be the new protectors of the islands.
Eh unlikely but possible I mean they conquered placed like Antioch and Sicily also I don't think 200 years is enough for islamization I mean Sicily was just that ruled for more than 200 years and the normans stayed Catholic when they conquered it
 
Eh unlikely but possible I mean they conquered placed like Antioch and Sicily also I don't think 200 years is enough for islamization I mean Sicily was just that ruled for more than 200 years and the normans stayed Catholic when they conquered it

Not entirely but enough to form the biggest group.
 
Yes that is true depends assuming bardas phokas becomes emperor he heads to the east first like nikephoros phokas the east would be defeated Cilicia would be reconquered aside from nikephoros the other comanders where still alive
I don't know for how long bardas would rule but after he reconquered cilicia he migth try for Crete in 970s
Assuming that he is alive he is most likely killed like nikephoros and taking over by John Tzimiskes who would most likely sent another force if one hasn't been launched already
If bardas phokas does become emperor and dies basil wont have to deal with him

As for worse case scenario assuming that Jonh becomes emperor maybe bardas phokas rebels I mean he did so because very specific reasons under basil and sure did he did rebell after jonh but thar was mooching of nikephoros success as Emperor
When bardas rebelled for a second time he dealt with an unexperienced basil and even that that civil war didn't collapse the empire
His first rebellion was even shorter as the other dealt with him quite quickly so yeah
This is why unless the Arabs of Crete have full support from the Fatimid caliphate they would be in trouble on the other hand the butterflies could mean a longer living John Tzimiskes and or no bardas phokas rebellion
ok let’s say the loss of an army at Crete and the renowned Cretan menace with a little more hamdanid success make a slower reconquest of Cilicia say in 968-968 and a short civil war between between Phokas and john in 963-964 ?
 
Eh unlikely but possible I mean they conquered placed like Antioch and Sicily also I don't think 200 years is enough for islamization I mean Sicily was just that ruled for more than 200 years and the normans stayed Catholic when they conquered it

I think it would be a little more likely here because the Norman were already based on southern Italy when they conquered Sicily if the hypothetical Norman are more a isolated group who served as mercenary as mercenary that might be possible even if improbable
 
I think it would be a little more likely here because the Norman were already based on southern Italy when they conquered Sicily if the hypothetical Norman are more a isolated group who served as mercenary as mercenary that might be possible even if improbable
speaking of wich how to the normas conquer it with out a base unless they are hired as mercenaries by the romans and backstab them taking the island even the island still has plenty of chirstians by the time nikephoros II reconquered 50 plus year make the island muslim majority unless the arabs are scared enough that they do a massacre and forced convertions on the locals.
 
speaking of wich how to the normas conquer it with out a base unless they are hired as mercenaries by the romans and backstab them taking the island even the island still has plenty of chirstians by the time nikephoros II reconquered 50 plus year make the island muslim majority unless the arabs are scared enough that they do a massacre and forced convertions on the locals.
In my mind the Norman are hired by the Emirate and after being here for quite some time somehow end up in power and a 100 year survival would be better for Norman Muslim
 
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