Wasn't Olympic armed even when trooping?

As I recall the Olympic class don't really suit armed cruiser role since they are not really fast enough to outrun U-boats.
No no, the AMC was not really ideal for fighting against U-Boats (I think that role was more in line for Q-ships), but more for convoy defense against either warships or German merchant raiders, to which liners had quite superior speed to warships of the time.

And yes, I found out that Olympic, whilst as a troopship, was equipped with 12-pounders and 4.7-inch guns in 1915, and later equipped with 6-inch guns in 1917.
 
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I can see Olympic and Titanic working together as troop transports while Britannic/Gigantic stays as a hospital ship.

Without Titanic sinking there's not gonna be the regulations that made lifeboats for everyone onboard mandatory, so a lot more people would die if one of them is sunk like Britannic OTL, or even worse on Lusitania which could prompt earlier US intervention in WW1. Though the idea of the three sisters working together well into the 20s and 30s is quite nice in my opinion.
 
I am not sure about that, in wartime conditions I suspect they would still ram the decks with life boats simply cos you don’t want to risk the troops loss…

All three Olympic class ships will have to be careful indeed during the war. It would be unrealistic to say they see no action, but it is plausible they all make it out.

IF Roosevelt gets the 1912 election thanks to help from Major Butt, then I could see America involved much earlier so the Olympic Class might only ever be troopships.
 
Hays getting the transcontinental railroad made should make Canadian settlement easier. Also move troops faster. If White Star did make a deal then I could their ships going to Halifax with more immigrants than OTL as the line promoted the inter-rail connection.

Well the loss of the Empress of Ireland should see changes to ship design or even retrofitting features such as automatic watertight doors.

Changes to lifeboats may happen, but given the circumstances of not even being able to launch them it might be the davits mechanism that changes not the boats.
 
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I can see Olympic and Titanic working together as troop transports while Britannic/Gigantic stays as a hospital ship.

Without Titanic sinking there's not gonna be the regulations that made lifeboats for everyone onboard mandatory, so a lot more people would die if one of them is sunk like Britannic OTL, or even worse on Lusitania which could prompt earlier US intervention in WW1. Though the idea of the three sisters working together well into the 20s and 30s is quite nice in my opinion.
Mind you with the way that Lusitania sank, it doesn't really matter if she had enough lifeboats or not. Only 6 were successfully launched in OTL.
 
I wonder if Titanic could goto Lusitanita’s rescue or would std operating procedure be to sail on past?

Also as White Star are owned by an American company could IMM ships fly the US flag?
 
Crippling or sinking an American owned or possibly flagged liner in this universe could prematurely bring America into the war.
 
But there is one war time role that Titanic could maybe find itself in, if it wasn't made into one of those two.
An armed merchant cruiser (armed with QF 4.7-inch guns mainly).
How about converted into a Sea Plane carrier to serve with the Grand Fleet when Campania proves useful but less than reliable?
 
You could say Captain Murdoch instead of ‘former first officer’ in the opening. Seems clunky otherwise.

If Titanic is in the same-ish location as Lusitania was they are only a few miles from the Irish coast, an SOS will get help quickly.

Any 4 compartments and she will float. Depending on her changes post iceberg and how many doors her shut she should be ok if damaged. It is also against regulation to be sailing into a war zone with the watertight doors and any portholes open- someone as paranoid as Murdoch is portrayed here would never have allowed regulation to be breached.

I doubt Murdoch will try and make a run for the coast since he knows this will drive more water inside Titanic and risk a capsize.

I find it unlikely Titanic would be carrying war materials like Lusitania may have been simply cos White Star never have the relationship with the UK govt and Royal Navy Cunard did.

Titanic will be damaged, from that location hit plan, but not as warped as Britannic was OTL or likely to get a secondary explosion as Lusitania.

I say she will survive, if down a lot and can be towed into Cobh.
 
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You could say Captain Murdoch instead of ‘former first officer’ in the opening. Seems clunky otherwise.

If Titanic is in the same-ish location as Lusitania was they are only a few miles from the Irish coast, an SOS will get help quickly.

Any 4 compartments and she will float. Depending on her changes post iceberg and how many doors her shut she should be ok if damaged. It is also against regulation to be sailing into a war zone with the watertight doors and any portholes open- someone as paranoid as Murdoch is portrayed here would never have allowed regulation to be breached.

I doubt Murdoch will try and make a run for the coast since he knows this will drive more water inside Titanic and risk a capsize.

I find it unlikely Titanic would be carrying war materials like Lusitania may have been simply cos White Star never have the relationship with the UK govt and Royal Navy Cunard did.

Titanic will be damaged, from that location hit plan, but not as warped as Britannic was OTL or likely to get a secondary explosion as Lusitania.

I say she will survive, if down a lot and can be towed into Cobh.

I agree, when I read originally I wondered why Murdoch did not, at least have below waterline watertight doors shut. Doors in damaged compartment can spring but it, retain 80% watertightness, pumps in other compartments should hold. IIRC Titanic did not have a centerline bulkhead, so she should, as OTL, not take a severe list but flood the compartments the full width of the ship.
 
View attachment 902946
Death on the St. Lawrence
As rail was laid down across Canada, the Canadian Pacific Steamships or CPR would commission a new ship for the North Atlantic Route between Liverpool and Quebec City. Empress of Ireland would be a part of the company's self-proclaimed “World’s Greatest Transportation System”.

The second ship of her class, work began in 1904 at Fairfield Shipbuilding and Engineering in Glasgow, Scotland. Originally named Empress of Germany and Empress of Austria, their names changed to Empress of Britain and Ireland respectively after a new policy which had it that any new Canadian Pacific ship named empress would be given a name based after a dependency or colony of the British Empire.

Empress of Ireland was launched on 27 January 1906.

For her final crossing, the Empress of Ireland departed Quebec City for Liverpool at 16:30 local time (EST) on 28 May 1914. For many, this was a return journey home to see family in a very diverse background of immigrants from across Europe. Few were of first class, totaling 87 compared to 253 in second class amongst whom were a large part of the Salvation Army members and their families, numbering 170 in all who were looking forward to the 3rd International Salvation Army Congress in London.

Third class was the largest, booking around 717 passengers nearing full capacity. In Command was Henry George Kendall, promoted Captain of Empress of Ireland just at the beginning of the month, and this would be his first trip down the Saint Lawrence River in command of the Empress.

The Empress of Ireland would reach Pointe-au-Pere in the early hours of May 29 1914, where the harbor pilot left the ship. Resuming a normal outbound route course, whereupon she sighted the masthead lights of SS Storstad, a Norwegian collier, on her starboard bow at a distance of several miles. In turn, Storestad, was abreast of Metis Point and virtually reciprocal course and spotted the Empress masthead lights.

These first sightings were made in clear weather, however an intense fog rolled in and enveloped the two ships in a thick blanket that obscured their view. Repeating the use of each other's fog horns, the ships continued on whilst attempting to make their way through the fog. Suddenly lights would be sighted, with Storstad bearing down on the Empress.

As Captain Kendall stood at the helm, he continued to squint his eyes in an attempt to see where the other vessel was. After ordering the ship's foghorn to blare once again, a reply came back. But neither Captain was any closer to finding the other ship. Tension was felt in the air as the wall of gray mist continued to surround the Empress as her Captain searched for the other ship. “Sir?” the helmsmen spoke, tense as well by his grip on the wheel. The Captain, not wanting to frighten the poor man anymore by showing concern, simply turned and gave a firm nod. “Don’t worry, the fog will likely clear out soon. Just stay the course, and we shall be safe once more.” Reluctantly the helmsmen nodded, turning his gaze back out towards the windows and the quiet and dark world outside.

Finally, Kendall reached for the ship's telegraphs and pulled the handles back then forward, setting the speed too slow as the ship continued on through the Saint Lawrence seemingly alone. Just after he did, it happened. As Captain Kendall and the helmsman heard the foghorn of Storstad, which was much closer now, the two watched in horror as lights appeared out of the mist and were heading right for the Empress. “Full ahead!” Kendall was quick, ordering the ship full ahead to move her whilst the helmsman desperately sought to turn the ship.

On Storstad, Captain Alfred Toftness, ordered for the ship to go full astern and the helm hard over, however it was too late and at 1:56 local time Storstad crashed into the Empress of Ireland’s starboard side at around midships. Storstad remained afloat despite the forward bow's damage, however the Empress was left with a gaping hole on her side. Kendall, quickly getting to his feet and finding his balance after being forced to the ground from the impact, retrieved a megaphone and shouted to the crew of Storstad to keep her Engines at full as to keep the latter in the Empresses side and keep the the stricken ship afloat. Unfortunately, due to still having forward momentum and the currents, the two ships separated after just about five seconds.

Crew down below struggled to try and close the ship's watertight doors. An unfortunate flaw with the Empresses watertight doors was the lack of a central switch to shut them, instead the doors needing manual crew to close them. The Empress of Ireland lurched hard to her starboard and began to settle by her stern. No time was given to close her watertight doors, and soon screams could be heard from the countless women and children onboard. Water quickly began entering through open portholes, originally intended for ventilation, now sentenced countless passengers and crew to death by drowning.

On the upper decks, many were awoken from the collision and desperately sought to board the ships lifeboats, however in this proved a near futile effort. Within just a few minutes, the ship listed hard onto the starboard side that the port lifeboats could not be launched. Attempts to do so only lead to the lifeboats smashing against the ship and dumping the occupants into the freezing water below. Only five lifeboats on the starboard side would escape, a sixth capsizing during the attempt to lower.

The lights went out, failing five to six minutes after impact and plunging the ship into darkness. By roughly ten or eleven minutes, the ship lurched violently onto her starboard side, allowing roughly 700 passengers and crew to crawl out of portholes and decks on her port side. She laid on her side for a minute or two longer, before her bow rose up and she went down. Hundreds of people were thrown into the near-freezing water, resulting in the death of 1,030 people (excluding crew) out of 1,542 passengers. Crew totaled 420, with 172 lost where 248 were saved. Only 3 children out of 138 survived.

The Tragedy of the Empress of Ireland struck Canada, with Canadian Pacific announcing its charter of the Allan Line’s Virginian to fill the void in service left by the loss of the Empress. Despite the outbreak of the First World War only months later, the Empress still made headlines and is remembered for the tragic loss of life even today. The wreck was declared a site of historical and archaeological importance and thus became protected under the Cultural Property Act and was listed in the register of Historic Sites of Canada. A number of memorials and commemorations took place in the decades since.

Well Clive Cussler still has at least one plot line....
 
Am dissapointed Gigantic went down exactly like OTL. I would have hoped changes in design and operating procedure after Titanic’s near loss x2 would have allowed Gigantic to survive, even if beached.

I would have been nice to have White Star have their functioning trio into the 20’s esp since Cunard have their ships.
 
RIP Britannic/Gigantic, unfortunate we won't see all three go into the postwar period. But Titanic and Olympic together as troop transports is nice to see
 
I am suprised a 1912 Roosevelt win has not been followed with quiet reforms and a build up of the American Army and Navy once WW1 broke out given it was in need of it.

It should not take as late as OTL for America to get invovled in WW1 this time with this President, even without Lusitania.

No Wilson is a very good thing for race relations and civil rights in the US also.

I see Gigantic beached herself now, thus she will be back, which is good, though I suspect it will be a while and thus White Star still get a German liner to compensate.

Actually perhaps the German liners goto Canadian Pacific Steamships instead of Cunard and White Star which would increase Atlantic competiton a lot.
 
I am suprised a 1912 Roosevelt win has not been followed with quiet reforms and a build up of the American Army and Navy once WW1 broke out given it was in need of it.

It should not take as late as OTL for America to get invovled in WW1 this time with this President, even without Lusitania.

No Wilson is a very good thing for race relations and civil rights in the US also.

I see Gigantic beached herself now, thus she will be back, which is good, though I suspect it will be a while and thus White Star still get a German liner to compensate.

Actually perhaps the German liners goto Canadian Pacific Steamships instead of Cunard and White Star which would increase Atlantic competiton a lot.
I did leave it ambiguous in regards to legislation Roosevelt passed didn't I? I didn't want to get too focused on the domestic/political front in the US.

As for why its taking so long here, well, has to do with the fact Titanic didn't go down, though that doesn't mean US entry isn't going to happen in 1916. Plus, I have been considering adjusting the years this is all happening in.

Gigantic will likely be out for sometime, both being beached and needing repairs. However I don't think White Star will need a German liner to compensate, but your last two comments have gotten me thinking a bit.
 
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Good chapter!

Violating US neutral space like that is going to really rile up the public.

Spotted a typo: “only able to take onboard fire class passengers.”

If one the U boat Commander had waiting a little longer he’d have got Cymric on its own…

Long term thinking- if America joins the war physically in 1916, the Germans are not as exhausted yet, but the time could turn quickly. If Germany collapses does that prevent the Revolution in Russia?

The Tsar isn’t gone, but he is on shaky ground, if Germany starts collapsing in 1916 the war is won. Feb Revolution might still happen, but the Provisional Govt would be in a much stronger position without the war.

One possibility is Germany makes a treaty with Russia once things start looking bad in the west. Possibly giving Poland freedom as a ‘buffer state‘? Russia might agree to this just to get the war done.

As for Austria, I am not sure what an early American arrival would do there, vis a vis Russia/Ukraine. They might pull out if Germany did?

Certainly with Roosevelt in charge the Middle East will go differently in the peace talks. Maybe the Ottoman Empire will survive?

Just some thoughts.
 
Good chapter!

Violating US neutral space like that is going to really rile up the public.

Spotted a typo: “only able to take onboard fire class passengers.”

If one the U boat Commander had waiting a little longer he’d have got Cymric on its own…

Long term thinking- if America joins the war physically in 1916, the Germans are not as exhausted yet, but the time could turn quickly. If Germany collapses does that prevent the Revolution in Russia?

The Tsar isn’t gone, but he is on shaky ground, if Germany starts collapsing in 1916 the war is won. Feb Revolution might still happen, but the Provisional Govt would be in a much stronger position without the war.

One possibility is Germany makes a treaty with Russia once things start looking bad in the west. Possibly giving Poland freedom as a ‘buffer state‘? Russia might agree to this just to get the war done.

As for Austria, I am not sure what an early American arrival would do there, vis a vis Russia/Ukraine. They might pull out if Germany did?

Certainly with Roosevelt in charge the Middle East will go differently in the peace talks. Maybe the Ottoman Empire will survive?

Just some thoughts.
Thanks for spotting that typo, much appreciated.

That's what is gonna spark some controversy, as it will be debated after the fact if the SS Cymric was in the neutral zone, or had just left it.
Kinda similar to what occurred during the Falklands War with the General Belgrano.

As for what happens with Russia? Its up in the air for now, though considering how the public within Russia were feeling about the wars continuation, I would say another Revolution is still likely regardless.
 
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