An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

Well let's not paint Ibrahim as a saint. He stirred up ethnic/religious tensions in the Levant just to make a headache for the Romans, and I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure he did some forced relocations of his own in the last war.
He was mutilating prisoners of war before that. I short of doubt the average Greek soldier ever forgot or forgave him that..
 
Ibrahim was certainly not a good man given that he was in charge of an empire built on blood and war like all empires but I think he must be commended for the level of grace he displayed until the very end. Rest In Peace Ibrahim, king of kings.
 
After reading that last series of chapters, and the noble way that Ibrahim conducted himself, contrasted with Roman's actions that are to come in Mesopotamia, I hope that Rome one day pays for what it has done, and Persia would get its revenge. Perhaps Iskander is content to be Romes lapdog, but who is to say that his heirs will feel the same?
Eh, nasty business as it was I think Rome's paid its fair share over the years. I rather hope this will mark the end to the wars between Rome and Persia.
 
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After reading that last series of chapters, and the noble way that Ibrahim conducted himself, contrasted with Roman's actions that are to come in Mesopotamia, I hope that Rome one day pays for what it has done, and Persia would get its revenge. Perhaps Iskander is content to be Romes lapdog, but who is to say that his heirs will feel the same?
I just don't see a reason why Persia would seek to plot revenge against Rhomania, especially if Odysseus and future Roman Emperors continue to seek equal partnership with Persia after the War of Wrath (a very likely possibility given their shared respect for each other as a people). If anything, both Rhomania and Persia are better off trying to maintain the peace for the sake of recovery and trade, especially during The Little Ice Age and the economic depression.

If there's anyone that wants true revenge against Rhomania, it would have to be the Germans, and for good reason.
 
I just don't see a reason why Persia would seek to plot revenge against Rhomania, especially if Odysseus and future Roman Emperors continue to seek equal partnership with Persia after the War of Wrath (a very likely possibility given their shared respect for each other as a people). If anything, both Rhomania and Persia are better off trying to maintain the peace for the sake of recovery and trade, especially during The Little Ice Age and the economic depression.

If there's anyone that wants true revenge against Rhomania, it would have to be the Germans, and for good reason.
The Germans? Who started the war on their perceived so called "right" for the throne of Ceasar's? That Germans?

Make no mistake they got cocky on their continuous string of good luck for like 3 straight centuries. Their present predicament is the culmination of their arrogance and ignorance.

This will be a very endearing lesson to the Germans, "if they managed stay cohesive" as a people and nation. But judging from what I can remember on this ttl, I don't think they will stay united. They will at some point be broken into smaller different pieces.
 
The Germans? Who started the war on their perceived so called "right" for the throne of Ceasar's? That Germans?

Make no mistake they got cocky on their continuous string of good luck for like 3 straight centuries. Their present predicament is the culmination of their arrogance and ignorance.

This will be a very endearing lesson to the Germans, "if they managed stay cohesive" as a people and nation. But judging from what I can remember on this ttl, I don't think they will stay united. They will at some point be broken into smaller different pieces.
Do you think a ttl German thinks even remotely like this?
 
Do you think a ttl German thinks even remotely like this?
Based on the german reaction on the past threadmark, I'd say yes. But seriously its not the Germans who wants true revenge against Rome. Its the leftover arabs that are being genocide in the syria and palastine, who will want true revenge.

The Germans have more immediate problem in the form of Henry and the social problems left in awake by the ravens.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
I honestly don't know if the Ottomans are going to be all that great of allies or supporters of the Arab population, especially once they lose their utility as a fifth column in Rhomania. The Persians and Turks have never exactly been friendly with Arabs, or vice versa when the Arabs were the top dogs in the region. Honestly the best the Arab world can hope for at the moment is for someone uniting the Arabian peninsula and then going neutral, but all three empires have reasons to not want a united peninsula.
 
Based on the german reaction on the past threadmark, I'd say yes. But seriously its not the Germans who wants true revenge against Rome. Its the leftover arabs that are being genocide in the syria and palastine, who will want true revenge.

The Germans have more immediate problem in the form of Henry and the social problems left in awake by the ravens.
Then why did the Germans create entire books and songs about how much the Romans are monsters after Ulm and Wennenden?
From Look to the West: What is Learned in the End:
That is the end of the story. That is what the Germans remember. Not the great battle and clash of arms that was Thessaloniki. That is forgotten in the pointless butchery of Ulm, of the thousands dying for no other reason than Roman bloodlust. German children had been murdered for literally no other reason than that the Romans wanted to murder them. Thessaloniki might’ve taught the Germans to fear the Romans, but Ulm does not.

Ulm teaches the Germans to despise the Romans.

As early as mid-1636 the song is making the rounds across Germany. Even as Triune armies march across the Rhine, the arch-fiend is the Greek.

‘Sleep, my child, don’t cry,
The Greek’s going by,
He killed your father at his door,
He made your wretched mother poor,
Keep very still, if you’d be wise,
Or he’ll find ways to shut your eyes.
Sleep, my child, don’t cry,
The Greek’s going by.’ [1]
As early as 1638 words are being spoken about striking against the Romans. The allied intervention in Italy in 1638 is viewed as an ideal moment to destroy the base from which the Romans initially launched their assault on Germany. A pan-German crusade against the Butchers of Ulm would be, it is argued by Manfred von Nimitz, the German noble and philosopher, an ideal way to forge German unity, a prerequisite for then pushing back the Triunes. Nothing comes of this proposal in 1638 because Germany lacks the means, but a lot of Germans think von Nimitz is on to something.
Admittedly they are in a very weak position after The Great Latin War and the Ravens' Rebellion, so they can't do anything against Rhomania at the moment, but saying that they do not desire revenge against the Romans is utterly preposterous.

Even if the Germans do not strike out against the Romans in the near future, they're certainly in a far better position to do so than the Arabs in Syria and Mesopotamia. It's fairly likely that if Odysseus and Iskander do not stop The Great Crime, it's possible that the Arabs will be almost exterminated from those regions, so any sort of revenge by the Arabs will be moot. Even if Iskander saves the Sunni Arabs during peacetime, it's very unlikely they will move Persia towards attacking Rhomania for The Great Crime alone.

In the end, their voices do not matter if there is no one willing to listen and support them.
 
Based on the german reaction on the past threadmark, I'd say yes. But seriously its not the Germans who wants true revenge against Rome. Its the leftover arabs that are being genocide in the syria and palastine, who will want true revenge.

The Germans have more immediate problem in the form of Henry and the social problems left in awake by the ravens.
b444 made a big point about how the Romans earned the perpetual ire of the Germans. Your reasoning for how they think does not seem to address that psychological scar the Romans inflicted upon the German zeitgeist. Rather it instead seems to be the opinion of a person who is being logical, analytical, and has access to full information rather than the reaction of a human in this time period and beyond. Which would be illogical, emotional, and have a source of information which is biased, incomplete, or even outright incorrect. The ravens are a short term problem that affects social and economic organization. It will not impact the German perception of Romans in any significant manner. A perception which will undoubtedly persist, not turn around into earnest self-reflection and self-loathing upon their own hubris, luck, or other failings. No it's much much easier for a state to blame someone else, especially a foreigner, rather than itself, its leaders, or any sort of systemic failings.

And yes the Arabs will also be angry that's not part of what I'm asking you. That is a separate issue worthy of its own discussion.
 
I just don't see Arabia forming a large threat any time in the next century or two. There's no demographic explosion that's about to happen, so their manpower will never be a match for Rhomania. At best they can strike opportunistically while Rhomania is pre-occupied. They are not going to be at the cutting edge of the industrial revolution, lacking just about every necessary resource. And Rhomania has friendly powers in Egypt, Ethiopia and Oman surrounding the peninsula. Hell in this timeline they don't even have the same monetary resources coming in from the Hajj since the Kaaba has been removed from Mecca. They will be rightly furious at Rhomania, but not in a position to challenge them in any meaningful way.

Germany on the other hand can and will prove a threat in the future as others have pointed out. However, it will be some time before they do. They are bankrupt, depopulated and at war with their neighbors and their peasants. Rhomania has set up a series of buffer states to absorb any blow that comes at them as well. Odysseus's future conflicts lie in the far east and in the western Mediterranean.
 

Cryostorm

Monthly Donor
Have the Omanis been involved in this war? I'm curious about the political developments in the rest of the Arabian peninsula outside the Levant and Mesopotamia after the collapse of Ibrahim's forces. I assume some have struck out on their own, some switching to the other side (albeit in lesser numbers since they aren't Persian) while some continue to hold out against who they perceive to be an Eternal foe while Rhomania doesn't see them as worth crushing.
Last update said they were sitting out since they wouldn't be able to get Hormuz or the island of Qeshm.
 
Last update said they were sitting out since they wouldn't be able to get Hormuz or the island of Qeshm.
Wonder whether the other Ottoman vassals on the peninsula are fair game, since it's referred to as a sideshow compared to the richer territories and core states. Border "adjustments" can be passed off as internal matters with a lack of opponent assertion. Defections can be maintained as diplomatic matters as no troops need to be mobilized.
 
b444 made a big point about how the Romans earned the perpetual ire of the Germans. Your reasoning for how they think does not seem to address that psychological scar the Romans inflicted upon the German zeitgeist. Rather it instead seems to be the opinion of a person who is being logical, analytical, and has access to full information rather than the reaction of a human in this time period and beyond. Which would be illogical, emotional, and have a source of information which is biased, incomplete, or even outright incorrect. The ravens are a short term problem that affects social and economic organization. It will not impact the German perception of Romans in any significant manner. A perception which will undoubtedly persist, not turn around into earnest self-reflection and self-loathing upon their own hubris, luck, or other failings. No it's much much easier for a state to blame someone else, especially a foreigner, rather than itself, its leaders, or any sort of systemic failings.

And yes the Arabs will also be angry that's not part of what I'm asking you. That is a separate issue worthy of its own discussion.
Ah I see the Germans may very well attack again but right now their in no position to even return the favor. I still think that the chances of the HRE still surviving to wage another war is practically over. Its going to broken up into probably two to three states.

Maybe they will reunify but that's in the future, by that time however their chances for that war is a close avenue. With the exception of a world war, whichever state is rulling Germany. That will be the only chance they ever get for fighting their perceived slight that they created.

Mind you Rome also did the same as the Germans in both otl and ttl. Blaming another for their perceived slight only for it hit their face even harder. The Germans haven't realized it yet, and I hope they do cause it will end only badly for them. Look at the Romans they shoot their foots more times than their enemy did, and paid a steep price for their recovery.

The only difference I see, by the time they do realize it, millions are already dead.
 
I’m really glad people enjoyed Ibrahim’s final scene. That was a joy to write. It was also an interesting challenge since when I wrote Demetrios’s curse scene, I was planning for Ibrahim’s death to be humiliating. But I had since changed my mind regarding that, but I also didn’t want to break with Demetrios’s curse. This was the result of my way out of the conundrum.

The Great Crime: The Great Crime is going to get an update(s) devoted specifically to it. Since I’m doing this, I need to at least face it squarely and openly. For now, it’s just been a few occasional references because right now I want to focus on the expedition story itself and follow it through to the end; it just works better for storytelling purposes. The references are a reminder that the Great Crime is happening concurrently, but is ‘off-camera’. But once this thread is over, it will be ‘on-camera’.

Latin Europe’s reaction: Frankly, they really aren’t paying that much attention. This is all happening far away, with information being sparse and taking a long time to get to [insert Latin city]. And they’ve got their own much more immediate fish to fry. Romans mucking around in Persia or India doesn’t make the front page with the Triunes rampaging through Germany.

After reading that last series of chapters, and the noble way that Ibrahim conducted himself, contrasted with Roman's actions that are to come in Mesopotamia, I hope that Rome one day pays for what it has done, and Persia would get its revenge. Perhaps Iskander is content to be Romes lapdog, but who is to say that his heirs will feel the same?

This was unintentional on my part originally, although now that I realized it I’m leaning heavily into it. In terms of timing, the Romans commit the Great Crime in the early 1640s, and in the mid-1640s the Little Ice Age comes in with a vengeance. The TTL Romans would not find that a coincidence. It smacks far too much of divine judgment.

Eh, nasty business as it was I think Rome's paid its fair share over the years. I rather hope this will mark the end to the wars between Rome and Persia.

Almost. This is the second-to-last of the Romano-Persian wars.
 
Almost. This is the second-to-last of the Romano-Persian wars.
Let the speculation begin. For the Romano-Persian wars to finally end it would need some kind of détente that sticks, which is Odysseus and Iskander's goal. It would seem that there needs to be at least some successful period of it for the states to want to return to that status after a subsequent war. I'd like to think that someone's son or grandson gets a little ambitious and tries to break the peace only to be quickly thrown back while a palace coup put his more sensible brother on the throne to resume the previous policy of coexistence. But I have a feeling it'll all be much more dramatic than that and Mesopotamia will be destroyed...again.
 
I wonder if Goa is the main port for Vijayanagara since it's the closest natural harbour to their capital. Even if other cities like Chennai or Cochin are bigger because of more mercantile activity, Goa has the ability to surpass OTL's status.
 
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