An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

Very troubling that Rhomania's status as Europe's economic superpower is under siege. Speaking of debt, what is the approx composition of Roman debt? Domestic or foreign? Also, seeing as they have a central bank, how is the development of bank bills and paper currency? Fractional reserve banking could be one way to continue fueling economic development even as trade declines. Seeing as Demetrios Sideros is shaping up to be a policy and governance savant maybe he could play a role in driving this?

Is the Roman education system still ahead of the competition? Perhaps they can invent something groundbreaking for productivity a few decades before everyone else to keep that economic edge.
 
Very troubling that Rhomania's status as Europe's economic superpower is under siege. Speaking of debt, what is the approx composition of Roman debt? Domestic or foreign? Also, seeing as they have a central bank, how is the development of bank bills and paper currency? Fractional reserve banking could be one way to continue fueling economic development even as trade declines. Seeing as Demetrios Sideros is shaping up to be a policy and governance savant maybe he could play a role in driving this?

People in OTL were experimenting with it around this time period. Rhomania here does have better economic policies that OTL Europe so it could be more successful, and they get a working Central Bank/ Bank Bill system up and running sooner. It would be neat to see the Roman currency become something akin to the OTL Pound-Sterling.

Just out of curiosity, since the New World is split up between many different players will there ever be a Gold/Silver rush that lead to massive inflation in the OTL Spanish Empire?
 

Soverihn

Banned
Its very interesting that every major power is essentially now several decades ahead of the OTL curve of Europe with regards to centralization, military organization and fiscal policy. I know you've mentioned technology is moving faster than in this timeline and I'm glad it is (Its a useful thing to explore in an alternate timeline), and I'm wondering if all this centralization and organization will have the necessary impact of improving education all throughout the continent, whose knock off effects will further improve technological innovation.

Furthermore, we've also a situation where Greater Iran is keeping pace, meaning the diffusion of wealth and innovation (or more likely, just the guns and the agricultural techniques) will spread east into the Iranosphere and the Indian Ocean Rim, from Indonesia to East Africa, causing essentially a revolution of state building and military technologies there. If I had to guess, I'd predict a really dynamic period of state and empire building is coming, which is going to clash with the European attempts to corner the world trading market.
 
Its very interesting that every major power is essentially now several decades ahead of the OTL curve of Europe with regards to centralization, military organization and fiscal policy. I know you've mentioned technology is moving faster than in this timeline and I'm glad it is (Its a useful thing to explore in an alternate timeline), and I'm wondering if all this centralization and organization will have the necessary impact of improving education all throughout the continent, whose knock off effects will further improve technological innovation.

Furthermore, we've also a situation where Greater Iran is keeping pace, meaning the diffusion of wealth and innovation (or more likely, just the guns and the agricultural techniques) will spread east into the Iranosphere and the Indian Ocean Rim, from Indonesia to East Africa, causing essentially a revolution of state building and military technologies there. If I had to guess, I'd predict a really dynamic period of state and empire building is coming, which is going to clash with the European attempts to corner the world trading market.

It definitely looks like Government organisation, technology, fiscal policy, and education is ahead of OTL. At the same time Colonization looks to be slower than OTL, by the 1600s Spain and Portugal had already taken most of Central and South America. Or maybe it's just that updates haven't covered these areas and it's accelerating.
 
It looks like the military pecking order is Roman Guard > Regular Tagma = Everyone's Elites > Everything else. With all the other great powers catching up in terms of organisation and already have more resources than the Romans, how long will it be until Rhomania becomes the weakest of the great powers?
 
Speaking of the Americas, what's going on with Mexico and the Incas? Last I remember Mexico was semi-independent, but I don't remember anything going on further south being addressed. How are they weathering the smallpox epidemics, without the OTL plundering of these areas they're probably taking it much better.
 
Oh boy, the Sleepless Ones...why does that name give me the chills? Well beyond a mix of Lovecraftian horror and the Emperor's Nightmares of 4chan fame.

Still I do wonder why there hasn't been a reference to WH40K thrown in somewhere, especially to Astartes...
 
Speaking of the Americas, what's going on with Mexico and the Incas? Last I remember Mexico was semi-independent, but I don't remember anything going on further south being addressed. How are they weathering the smallpox epidemics, without the OTL plundering of these areas they're probably taking it much better.
If I recall correctly Mexico is ruled by the son of David Komnenos (Youngest son of Andreas Niketas). It's independent, but heavily reliant on Arles for tech, weapons etc. It's just paying its way through with mountains of silver. It would be good to get a brief update on it!
 
I am completely confused - the Romans are both looking at capturing Dalmatia for its wood - and then gives Serbia independence? Either they are looking to support an expansive Serbian buffer state that gives them trade privileges, or someone dun a dumb.

I am surprised that the Romans aren't happy with Russian wood - there should be more than enough there to satisfy Roman needs. Curious.

I do hope the Romans catch a break soon, perhaps a successful invasion gives them a Pannonian, and an Italian despotate? (Well, that wouldn't be so much a break as a complete reversal of fortunes).

I'm also curious as to whether, with the increased number of despotates, and the historical instability around the office of Emperor, whether this Empire is going to go full on Federal, with a greatly dis-empowered Emperor sitting at the head of a union of Despotates.
 
I'm also curious as to whether, with the increased number of despotates, and the historical instability around the office of Emperor, whether this Empire is going to go full on Federal, with a greatly dis-empowered Emperor sitting at the head of a union of Despotates.

It is time for the USSR? United Sovereign States of Rhomania?
 
It is time for the USSR? United Sovereign States of Rhomania?

Probably United Sovereign States of Rhomanion, with Rhomania as one of the states, but y'know. Good joke is good :D

Heck, we've already got institutions like the War Room that would already be in place to organise federal war plans - I just doubt that the USSR would spread beyond the Med.

Although if the USSR regained Andalucia and took Mecca - those two sovereign members would be interesting to have.
 

Arrix85

Donor
Given this roman "fatigue" I guess the romans won't manage to go beyond the liberation of Serbia (some check will be needed to avoid another Vukasin) so I wonder if they will be really able to get Dalmatia and Istria. Let's see how far the lombards go. It would be nice to get those regions, securing at last a more firm connection with Venetia (however powerful I've always thought of it as too isolated).

I'm no expert on economy issue, but given the prolonged period of crisis which essentialy cut off Rhomania from the East, I guess a decline was to be expected (a bit like Venice declined after the Ottoman rise). To counter this Rhomania, aside from internal reforms, should have a long period of peace, but sadly that's not coming for a while. So a renewed drive to the East could be a long time coming (although securing the parts of Egypt that matter is very nice).
 

Arrix85

Donor
Many times was this question asked, and many times the answer given.
Basileus444 doesn't make many maps, it takes him too much time.

Probably he's going to make one for 1625 (at least that's what he wrote a while back). If I'm not mistaken there is a 1600 map in the Finished timelines section (it should be in B444's signature).

EDIT: found it. here's the link.

The Revival of Rhomaion: An Age of Miracles
 
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I can't help but notice that both Leo Neokastrites and Demetrios Sideros are rapidly rising stars of the Military and Government respectively, as well as having POVs in updates. Seeing as both of them should be around Constantinople more (Guard Tagma and at Court) will they come into contact? Based on the way things are shaping up they will be huge players, especially as the Roman succession war will shake everything up.
 
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I can't help but notice that both Leo Neokastrites and Demetrios Sideros are rapidly rising stars of the Military and Government respectively, as well as having POVs in updates. Seeing as both of them should be around Constantinople more (Guard Tagma and at Court) will they come into contact? Based on the way things are shaping up they will be huge players, especially as the Roman succession war will shake everything up.

It would be pretty great if they end up mentoring the future Andreas III in both military and governance, create the most well-rounded monarch to guide the Empire out of the succession war and onto world domination. Speculating is fun :biggrin:
 
I do wonder at the overall narrative of the TL, now that Rhomania has long since passed it's final peak under Niketas. The "Revival of Rhomania" had a great narrative thrust, with a suitably Roman self-limiting civil war. But where are we going now? The "Retirement of Rhomania"? A 4 century long decline into a comfortable second rank? That would certainly be interesting, but so far IMO there has not been much overall structure to the story, narratively speaking.
 
I do wonder at the overall narrative of the TL, now that Rhomania has long since passed it's final peak under Niketas. The "Revival of Rhomania" had a great narrative thrust, with a suitably Roman self-limiting civil war. But where are we going now? The "Retirement of Rhomania"? A 4 century long decline into a comfortable second rank? That would certainly be interesting, but so far IMO there has not been much overall structure to the story, narratively speaking.

I don't know what Bas444 is planning - but I expect that there will be another great period for the Empire when line infantry starts to become a major element. Niketas had the rise of the cannon on his side, but we haven't yet seen massed gunpowder infantry (unless I've missed that).

The Romans are probably the first in the Mediterranean who would have access to this, or develop it. Once they start having line infantry to put against their neighbours, I'd expect a Niketas Reborn (if the Emperor is particularly good), or a very successful expansionist who brings North Africa and Mesopotamia into the fold as Despotates (perhaps S.Spain too, I forget who controls that, Arabia would be grand in the long run as well). After that, I expect that northern Europe, with their control over the new world, will start to outpace the Romans economically, with the Empire and the Despotates lacking access to the New World for resources. I would expect that the wars that the Romans get involved in with the new powers in Europe would be primarily defensive, rather than expansionist, turning to focus on the East Indies once again.

After that long period as a second-tier power that can project power in the Med and the East Indies, rather than additionally in the New World (and maybe India), I could see them become prominent again as those Empires start to crumble, oil becomes valuable, and they build a true Suez Canal. That would change the economic game in their favour, and add that to their touch and go control over the main trade routes in the East Indies is great for the long game.

The biggest factor IMO? The Romans have already gone through the stage of acknowledging they can't control everything from Constantinople - that respect of the need to decentralise and sophistication of governance may leave them to last, or be accepting of a federal model in the long term, which would reduce the rise of independence movements on themselves.

I don't see them as the number one power all the time, but more like a stalwart power. Sometimes eclipsed by Empires that burn brighter (like the British or Mongol Empires), but always persisting. Eventually reaching the point where it is one of the (at least 3) super powers, alongside China (potentially Indonesia), and an alt-USA (or Brazil).
 
I strongly doubt the Empire will ever look to conquer more N.Africa, or venture into Hispania, or go at it with the Ottomans again for Arabia, which is in the end a giant desert. At least not until the internal combustion engine comes around at least.

I can totally see them crushing the Idwaits and the Yemeni to make damn sure no one threatens the Red Sea route again though.
 
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