An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

The justification made by the Spanish king for the death of his favourite son, whom he blamed the Romans for. Both sides in their respective territories in the east have been planning on attacking each other. But the key difference is what instigated it and the justifications around it.
The reasons are the same for both powers. Control of the trade in East Indies. The death of the prince just served as an extra incentive for the Spanish king.
Moreover, as mentioned in the previous update, the Roman's have already planned to attack Malacca, even if the Spanish would have not sent the fleet, which would trigger a major Spanish response. So this response would happen either way. The Spanish simply preemp it
 
The reasons are the same for both powers. Control of the trade in East Indies. The death of the prince just served as an extra incentive for the Spanish king.
Moreover, as mentioned in the previous update, the Roman's have already planned to attack Malacca, even if the Spanish would have not sent the fleet, which would trigger a major Spanish response. So this response would happen either way. The Spanish simply preemp it
I already acknowledged that both were planning on attacking each other. But like I said the key difference is the spark that led the spanish attacking earlier.
 
I already acknowledged that both were planning on attacking each other. But like I said the key difference is the spark that led the spanish attacking earlier.
That key difference was an emotional response quite like Andreas had in the Venetian sack of Smyrna. Granted, they are not on the same scale, but the principle is the same. One vowed revenge against Venice, the other, revenge against the greeks.
 
That key difference was an emotional response quite like Andreas had in the Venetian sack of Smyrna. Granted, they are not on the same scale, but the principle is the same. One vowed revenge against Venice, the other, revenge against the greeks.

There is that "minor" issue of Venice having spent at the time of the sack of Smyrna the last 250 year invading Greek lands. Instead the empire was actively helping the Spanish complete the reconquista just a few years earlier.
 
There is that "minor" issue of Venice having spent at the time of the sack of Smyrna the last 250 year invading Greek lands. Instead the empire was actively helping the Spanish complete the reconquista just a few years earlier.
The point is Andreas came to personally hate Venice because he lost family or something to the venetians. The spanish king came to hate Byzantium because he blames them for the death of his son, it´s the same emotional response.
From what i remember from previous updates, they actively delayed the reconquista by placing Andalus under their sphere when they seceded from the Marinids. And later on, they just didn´t cared at all of what was happening in the peninsula
 
I’m sure the opponents of France were really frustrated when Napoleon showed up. I’m sure the opponents of the Mongols were frustrated when Genghis Khan showed up. I’m sure when the Ottomans invaded Habsburg territory in the early 1700s and Eugene of Savoy ran them over they were frustrated. And I’m sure the opponents of Rhomania were frustrated when Andreas Niketas showed up.

Societies don’t produce geniuses consistently. Compare French martial leadership in the Napoleonic Wars versus the Franco-Prussian Wars for just one of many examples. Rhomania has produced some geniuses both IOTL and ITTL, but frankly other societies get their turns too, and some of those societies can get them at times and places that can be really frustrating for the Romans. Rhomania does not have a monopoly on competence and innovation, and for it to have one ITTL would be utterly unrealistic.

And bad luck happens. The explosion of the magazine at Belgrade is identical to an OTL event that occurred during the Peninsular War, allowing the French to take a Spanish fortress. The Byzantines IOTL lost a battle with the Bulgarians because the Byzantines were winning but then their commander needed to pee. He dismounted to do so, and his horse escaped and ran through the Byzantine lines. Seeing their commander’s rider-less horse, they thought he’d been killed and panicked, allowing the Bulgarians to regroup and then rout the demoralized Byzantines. There’s a reason why the more crazy stuff that happens ITTL I endnote with the OTL inspiration to show that it’s not out of bounds of reality.

Rome lost literally hundreds of ships and tens of thousands of men to storms during the First Punic War. Weather can make or break a campaign, especially in pre-industrial times without motorized transport. Also having issue with a Roman siege failing because of an early monsoon (which is a thing; the Earth’s climatic cycle has patterns but it’s not an atomic clock) while repeatedly expecting a storm to sink the entire Spanish fleet definitely looks like a double-standard.

And sometimes the ‘bad luck’ is from a system that is flawed, such as the current setup of the eastern Katepanates, but systems always have flaws, either intentional or unintentional, and while sometimes they can be ignored, other times they are a real problem. Or the system prioritizes values that are inappropriate for changed circumstances. As @JSC pointed out, the Drakid-era army prioritized loyalty first and bravery second, and only then competence. This makes complete sense for an administration traumatized by the Time of Troubles and anxious to avoid a repeat. In that it succeeded, but its focus on loyalty first became a problem in the new circumstances of Theodor’s invasion.

Sometimes bad things just happen because the world is a chaotic system and people can only control so many variables. Sometimes bad luck happens because it flows organically from a flawed system that exists for in-setting reasons. Neither of those are ‘deus ex machina’. A deus ex machina would be an asteroid falling out of the sky and sinking the Roman fleet, or the monsoon showing up three months early.

Speaking of badasses, firstly they’re overrated. Subotai himself, properly briefed for 1940s tech and warfare, couldn’t have turned the tide for Imperial Japan once it was fighting the US. The material disparity was far too massive, just as Subotai couldn’t have won in his own time if Kievan Rus had turned out for battle with machine guns instead of medieval weaponry. This is especially prevalent moving into modern times where the ability to mobilize resources for long conflicts is key. Rhomania won because it had a superior system as opposed to superior individuals, which is far more reliable for success. The reason Theodor got as far as he did was because he lucked into having a generation of brilliant military leaders, which is not a reliable mechanism for victory, and he still lost.

Secondly, there have been Roman ‘badasses’ anyway. People are reaching back nearly 50 years for examples of bad Roman luck, while ignoring the likes of Manuel Philanthropenos and even young Odysseus who are recent TL characters.

Thirdly, the whole cult of badassery is questionable in its own right, focusing on sheer fighting prowess at the expense of all else. The Spartans are hailed as amazing badasses, which makes people overlook the fact that Spartan society was literally one of the monstrous and inhumane societies in all of history, including the twentieth century. Seriously, it’d be better to be a slave in the antebellum American south than to be a Spartan helot. At least in the American south they didn’t require the elite boys to kill a slave as part of their rite to become a man.

As for consequences being unfairly skewed against the Romans, consider the settings. A Roman army went on a rampage in southern Germany, destroying a major anti-Triune force, which allowed the Triunes to turn around and destroy the other major anti-Triune force. The Romans have, regardless of intent, substantially aided the Triunes in their conquest of the Rhineland, and are also making noises about annexing northern Italy. The Spanish meanwhile are sending forces to a colonial area. One area is a much bigger deal than the other, so actions there matter much more and so earn greater consequences. France trying to grab the Rhineland is a much bigger deal than France grabbing Vietnam. Threatening metropole and metropole-adjacent areas is going to get a much bigger backlash than threatening colonies literally halfway around the world.

I’m still writing, and the story will continue, but Rhomania will have good leaders and bad ones, and good luck at times and bad luck at others, and good systems at times and bad systems at others, and so will all their neighbors, be they friend or foe. And that interaction, the mix of those possibilities and the myriad of outcomes they can generate, is, I think, an important factor in creating a compelling and interesting story.
 
Excellently worded. There are so many eastern Rome wanks if you want to see them kick ass without too much obstical. Part of what makes this tl so great in my eyes is that we have to see our favorite empire to suffer to see success. The arduous valleys rome faces make the top of the hills look so much more beautiful and awe inspiring
 
Excellently worded. There are so many eastern Rome wanks if you want to see them kick ass without too much obstical. Part of what makes this tl so great in my eyes is that we have to see our favorite empire to suffer to see success. The arduous valleys rome faces make the top of the hills look so much more beautiful and awe inspiring
Hell, just look at where Rhomania's at now. My memory's foggy, but doesn't it have control of pretty much everything from Sicily to the Levant and then some? That alone is better than where a lot of OTL empires were at at the time. And a bunch of that's been incorporated so well it's already beyond being realistically split. Rome is doing fine.
 
Hell, just look at where Rhomania's at now. My memory's foggy, but doesn't it have control of pretty much everything from Sicily to the Levant and then some? That alone is better than where a lot of OTL empires were at at the time. And a bunch of that's been incorporated so well it's already beyond being realistically split. Rome is doing fine.
Oh yeah they are doing more than fine rn and im pretty sure they're gonna be on the up and up for the near future. They will prolly stagnate again eventually but that's how our Romie homies work
 
Oh yeah they are doing more than fine rn and im pretty sure they're gonna be on the up and up for the near future. They will prolly stagnate again eventually but that's how our Romie homies work
Speaking about how much Rome's got, I can't help but wonder what people actually think of when they hear "Greece" now. Surely they must imagine an area larger than Greece itself, given how thoroughly certain areas have been assimilated.
 
Well my guess is that Romans will associate greece with the area associated with classical greece. Or they might associate it with the European portion of the empire
 
I apologise for my part in reigniting what we can agree is a contentious issue, comment was made in good fun.

Wanted to say that is a superbly written story, and the level of commentary is just a reflection of how invested I’m in the world and characters.
 
Well my guess is that Romans will associate greece with the area associated with classical greece. Or they might associate it with the European portion of the empire
Yeah, that sounds about right. Like Bulgaria's only existed as a historical footnote ITTL and since Constantinople and the surrounding areas were never Turkified it makes sense that they'd be thought of as "basically-Greece". Give it awhile, I bet we'll see some Romans trying to claim that Anatolia and Sicily in a "Magna Graecia" sorta way.
 
Yeah if you wanna talk about shit luck in this tl look at Bulgaria. Dudes got fucked over so many times they just stopped existing lmao
 
Honesty ,I think Rhomania career in colony mostly is lucky,this time was a little setback.Go back to homeland,revenge to Latin has enough to the early defeat.But I think after time of trouble,overall Ottoman front in a way of going down,Alexandar style victory maybe anachronistic,but can fit in story. And also need a majoy victory to Morocco
 
Honesty ,I think Rhomania career in colony mostly is lucky,this time was a little setback.Go back to homeland,revenge to Latin has enough to the early defeat.But I think after time of trouble,overall Ottoman front in a way of going down,Alexandar style victory maybe anachronistic,but can fit in story. And also need a majoy victory to Morocco

The model is probably this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman–Safavid_War_(1623–1639)

Compared to OTL the Persians start of course already in control of Iraq, while Georgia unlike OTL is a major player in its own right. But you certainly could look at Iskandar as an Abbas I the great on steroids for example.
 
I got my eyes on fashion right now.

This is the 17th century, but I gotta wonder. Do the Rhomans follow western fashion traditions from OTL or do they have a trend independent of what we experienced in real life? Get some nice pantaloons good sir!
 
I got my eyes on fashion right now.

This is the 17th century, but I gotta wonder. Do the Rhomans follow western fashion traditions from OTL or do they have a trend independent of what we experienced in real life? Get some nice pantaloons good sir!
I personally doubt the Romans would want to look anything like the latins. I don't find it unlikely that fashion trends would be similar to otl with both having lots of eastern influence. Perhaps we could see them looking something like this
 

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