AHC - Minor (Surviving/Alternative) religions

zarathustra

Okay, hear me out. Topics such as 'What if [Major Religion] didn't exist?' or 'What if [Region] followed [Different Religion]?, What if [Religion] was Bigger' etc are very common in alternative history circles. These scenarios can drastically alter a given timeline, sometimes creating an almost alien world. Imagine, for instance, a Europe without Christianity.

However, in this discussion, I'd like to entertain the idea of having more 'minor' religions survive to the present day, while avoiding some 'cheap' pitfalls like a "generic unorganized European/Native American paganism just exists". Of course, in our timeline, we have religions like Shinto, Chinese folk traditions, Voodoo (and related) African traditions, Sikhism, Jainism, Caodaism , Spiritism/Kardecism in Brazil etc. These religions are often tied to specific ethnic groups or specific countries/regions with very particular characteristics. The rules here are:
  • All major world religions still exist(Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism ). But you can butterfly away /replace lesser ones
  • A minimum of ~1 million true followers and must have a noticeable and distinguishable demographic .
  • The religion is preferably tied to a specific group(ethnic/linguistic), country, or region.
  • Variations/offshoots of already established religions are very welcome
*This is a pre-1900 thread, but let's try to ignore the rise of irreligion and secularism for the sake of this discussion. Gnosticism/Esoteric stuff is valid

There are some alternatives here. wanking ethnic religions, keep religions in isolated places, and creating some new syncrethic religions. But the hard part is convincing all these people to not change to a bigger already established religion(either by choice or force...).
 

Conan

I can think of 2-3 alternate religions from the top of my head.
Germanic druidism; In a world where the Roman empire did not conquer Britain and instead conquered part of Germania, the remaining Germanic tribes would be forced North and East. In the former case, the native German tribes of the Jutland peninsula might have been pushed out far earlier, either causing them to try and invade the British Isles earlier, or move further North into Norway. In the case of them attempting to invade Britain, then they would have a lot more trouble than they did in OTL, since Brittania before the Roman conquest and Britannia after the Romans abandoned it were very different entities. They may be able to conquer some of the areas on the eastern coast, but it would not be likely they could conquer Britain to the same extent that they did in our timeline. It is also likely that the "British Germans" of this time line assimilate a lot more of British-Celtic culture than the ones of OTL. Why is this important? Because ITTL, the Druids of Britain would not have been wiped out by the Romans. Druids were not only the religious leaders, they were also legal authorities, adjudicators, lorekeepers, medical professionals and political advisors. In the case that TTL's British Germans assimilate more of celtic culture, it is likely that the same would happen to the religion, meaning that it would be likely that "Britannic-German" religion would have their equivalent of Druids. These Germanic Druid Equivalents could then potentially spread to the rest of the Germanic World.
Alt-Celtic Christianity; Also in a world where the Roman empire did not conquer Britain and no Germanic invaders come, but Christianity still spread to the isle anyway and eventually converted it. Historically in OTL, Christianity has shown itself to assimilate itself into the cultures that it converts. It is likely that this alt-celtic christianity would be no different and would likely have priests or monks that take on a similar role to the Druids.
A non-gnostic equivalent of Manicheanism; In our world, Manichaeism was a religion that was founded in modern day Iraq and spread as far west as Southern Gaul and Spain( to the point that Hilary of Poitiers described it as a significant force in Roman Gaul) and as far east as China. It had drawn influence from Zoroastrianism, Buddhism and Gnostic Christianity. In this alternate timeline, Manicheanism does not exist as we would know it. Instead, a similar but different religion (let's call this, religion x) forms. Religion X, like Manicheanism, forms in Mesopotamia, drawing on Zoroastrianism and various other religions, but is not inspired by Gnostic Christianity. Instead, it is inspired by the non-Gnostic variants of Christianity.
 
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Conan

zarathustra said:
Sorry, I don't get why being non-Gnostic would change its fate
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Two words; having children. Sure you can possibly have a religion that discourages procreation and/or is anti-natal survive to the present day (the fact that Manichaeism spread so far East and West IOTL is proof of that), but it's simply a lot harder for it to survive to the present day than one that encourages procreation/is pro-natal, or is at least neutral to the concept (i.e "go forth and multiply").
 
Beatriz

Beatriz

Syncretic religions which emerge in the 19th or early 20th century in colonized or semicolonized regions like Rastafari in the Caribbean or the Cao Dai of Vietnam are an ignored category
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

Conan said:
Alt-Celtic Christianity; Also in a world where the Roman empire did not conquer Britain and no Germanic invaders come, but Christianity still spread to the isle anyway and eventually converted it. Historically in OTL, Christianity has shown itself to assimilate itself into the cultures that it converts. It is likely that this alt-celtic christianity would be no different and would likely have priests or monks that take on a similar role to the Druids.
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Speaking of alternate Christian sects, what could be interesting could be a scenario where Nestorians in China survive as a small but prominent minority.
 

zarathustra

Beatriz said:
Syncretic religions which emerge in the 19th or early 20th century in colonized or semicolonized regions like Rastafari in the Caribbean or the Cao Dai of Vietnam are an ignored category
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Yeah, honestly for me these ones sound the more interesting. Maybe I should made a thread specifically about this in the future
Analytical Engine said:
The Paulicians survived a surprisingly long time. I could see them still being around.
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where they could survive? Thrace? Never had thought about this
Whiteshore said:
Speaking of alternate Christian sects, what could be interesting could be a scenario where Nestorians in China survive as a small but prominent minority.
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A classic one is "the mongols/uyghur become Nestorian" indeed.

Conan said:
Two words; having children. Sure you can possibly have a religion that discourages procreation and/or is anti-natal survive to the present day (the fact that Manichaeism spread so far East and West IOTL is proof of that), but it's simply a lot harder for it to survive to the present day than one that encourages procreation/is pro-natal, or is at least neutral to the concept (i.e "go forth and multiply").
Click to expand...
Honestly I remain skeptical about this "Gnostic religion = anti-natal = doomed to die". It's like saying buddhism could never expand since its intrinsically "anti-natalist"
 

Analytical Engine

zarathustra said:
Honestly I remain skeptical about this "Gnostic religion = anti-natal = doomed to die". It's like saying buddhism could never expand since its intrinsically "anti-natalist"
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Early Christianity was very anti-natalist, because they thought the end of the world was nigh.

That didn't stop it from becoming the biggest religion on Earth.

Religions are pragmatic. Generally, a little leeway is granted to the regular adherents, whilst there might be stricter rules for the actual clergy. After all, monks and nuns are required to be celibate, as are Catholic priests and Orthodox bishops. That doesn't stop people from wanting to be one of those things, and both denominations are very large
 
Whiteshore

Whiteshore

zarathustra said:
where they could survive? Thrace? Never had thought about this
Click to expand...
They were largely in Anatolia, so a possible scenario could be that the Ottomans or Ottoman-equivalent could view the Paulicians as a "loyal minority" and generally leave them alone as "Peoples of the Book" given the right to practice their faith as long as they keep their head down, especially with the millet system the Ottomans had IOTL.
zarathustra said:
A classic one is "the mongols/uyghur become Nestorian" indeed.
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Speaking of which, we could have Tocharians remain a distinct group as a minority by having them stick to Buddhism or Nestorianism even as the Uyghurs adopt Islam.
 
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