A country in despair

As for cannon production, between 1790 and 1808, Sweden produced a lot of heavy artillery - the ships of the line built by af Chapman had been intended to carry 36pdr long guns on their lower battery deck, but these guns were not ready by 1788 and the ships carried 24pdr:s instead. At least ~350 long 36pdr guns were cast between 1790 and 1808 for the ships of the line, with the 24pdr:s being put on frigates or moved to fortifications.

Unfortunately, I don't have reliable data on gun production of the era beyond that.
 
Still not a requirement to have all musket, canons and gunpowder in Finland there.
Well, you’ll probably have something left but requirement for OTL plan was 1,600 cannons and they do need a lot of gunpowder. Between March 20 and 24 the fortress spent up to 1/3rd of its gunpowder supply answering to fire of 46 Russian guns. It seems that the fortress guns had been heavier (48 and 60 pounders) but result of their fire was zero beyond destroying few houses in Helsinki: no damage to the Russian batteries.

If it is the main supply base, then most of the supplies are in it as planned by the King.

View attachment 667229
There are 2 "choke points" in this map, controll those and it is impossible to threaten the sea fortress from land. Atleast during summer, frozen water during winter change the game.
The problem is that as soon as the left defense line is breached then the defenders of Helsinki are doomed and the whole thing is back to OTL. Or even without this Helsinki is under fire.



True.


Only true if the following is true :
1;Supplies in the fortress lasts less than a year of siege.2; The Russian navy can prevent Sweden from sending in more supplies during spring, summer and autumn.

You have to stick to some kind of a consistent logic. If Sveaborg is not the main supply base there is no need to keep a lot of supplies there. In OTL it was storing something like 2 - 3 months worth of them. If it is bigger and has more supplies, then these supplies are absent elsewhere. If Swedish navy keep bringing more supplies to the fortress then the field troops are not receiving these supplies.

It looks like you are pushing toward “the most effective way of losing a war” scenario.



That is possible, he did attack Russia just a few years ago, using Sveaborg in that way.

The more reasons for Russia to consider a continued construction as a hostile activity and to cut allowances.
Is it possible for us to view it in the term of the existing alliance?

Only as a way to break this alliance because only a naval base makes sense within framework of this alliance.

With Kronstadt, Reval and Sveaborg in the same side of an conflict, who decide what ships sail in the gulf of Finland? All capable of providing shelter to the navy, all capable of recieving supplies from land and none easy to defeat by a hostile navy.

See above. The naval defenses are OK but the rest is hardly justifiable by a purpose of the alliance.
Let us just wait and see if he lives to see the fortifications completed.
Sorry, is “he” going to do something outside your will? Or are you regularly traveling into a parallel universe and reporting the findings? 😂
Only if he lives long enough and have enough "power" do decide how it should be used, what should be stored et cetera.
So far he has decided more fortifications should be built.

Yes, it does look like there is a parallel universe. 😂
If warfare changes, are the Swedes obligated to use obsolete tactics because a former ruler decided to build fortifications on a less than optimal site?
The problem is that a monumental stupidity of the past does impact the future: with the huge resources dumped into this “city-wide can opener” the Swedes have limited options because they have fewer resources left to use in a meaningful way.

Making it less costly to run a country is not impossible. Least not if the bureaucratic apparatus is larger than it needs to be, if it is "bad" at managing tax funds, if one person can do what two ineffective officials do and many more things could be improved.

The bureaucratic apparatus is always larger than it need to be and an attempt to decrease its size in most cases results in its growth. And it is “bad” in managing the tax funds just by definition because it keeps trying to spend ever growing portion of these funds on its own maintenance.
An “effective” outsider sooner rather than later would be caught on breaching the law and/or misusing the funds. Or, even simpler, he would be drown in a bureaucratic paperwork.


Just look at our capitalistic world of today, decreasing costs are the least uncomon thing to do if the goal is to increase profit, slightly off topic but you get my point.
Sorry, where exactly did you see the word you are talking about? Definitely, this is not the US: our bureaucracy is growing on all levels and even within a private sector (the big companies are operating as the medium-sized states) and the decreasing cost of production usually comes at the expense of a quality or due to other factors.
 
On gunpowder, I do have more reliable data.

Niter production from Swedish niter barns in metric tons by year. 1809 was a low point due to losing Finland and things mostly collaping.

1730​
106​
1752​
191​
1809​
68​
1816​
280​
1834​
246​
1862​
110​
 
Well, you’ll probably have something left but requirement for OTL plan was 1,600 cannons and they do need a lot of gunpowder. Between March 20 and 24 the fortress spent up to 1/3rd of its gunpowder supply answering to fire of 46 Russian guns. It seems that the fortress guns had been heavier (48 and 60 pounders) but result of their fire was zero beyond destroying few houses in Helsinki: no damage to the Russian batteries.
And TTL must play out exactly as OTL in a possible war with Russia because?
If it is the main supply base, then most of the supplies are in it as planned by the King.
Yes, if.
The problem is that as soon as the left defense line is breached then the defenders of Helsinki are doomed and the whole thing is back to OTL. Or even without this Helsinki is under fire.
Are the Russian army incapable of ever loosing a battle? If so, why does not Russia controll the world?
You have to stick to some kind of a consistent logic. If Sveaborg is not the main supply base there is no need to keep a lot of supplies there. In OTL it was storing something like 2 - 3 months worth of them. If it is bigger and has more supplies, then these supplies are absent elsewhere. If Swedish navy keep bringing more supplies to the fortress then the field troops are not receiving these supplies.
Exactly.
It looks like you are pushing toward “the most effective way of losing a war” scenario.
As per the title...
Only as a way to break this alliance because only a naval base makes sense within framework of this alliance.
And a naval base do benefit from defences to protect it from land based attacks.
See above. The naval defenses are OK but the rest is hardly justifiable by a purpose of the alliance.
Did Reval and Kronstadt lack all types of land based defences?
Sorry, is “he” going to do something outside your will? Or are you regularly traveling into a parallel universe and reporting the findings? 😂

Yes, it does look like there is a parallel universe. 😂
Do you always feel a need to be condescending, or am I just one of the lucky ones?
The problem is that a monumental stupidity of the past does impact the future: with the huge resources dumped into this “city-wide can opener” the Swedes have limited options because they have fewer resources left to use in a meaningful way.
That would be highly dependent on how the fortress was used in war time.
Sorry, where exactly did you see the word you are talking about? Definitely, this is not the US: our bureaucracy is growing on all levels and even within a private sector (the big companies are operating as the medium-sized states) and the decreasing cost of production usually comes at the expense of a quality or due to other factors.
The introduction of CNC-machinery as an example increased quality and made manufacturing alot cheaper, as well as faster.
It is not a universal law that a project aimed at decreasing costs always means the costs go up and the quality go down.
 
As for cannon production, between 1790 and 1808, Sweden produced a lot of heavy artillery - the ships of the line built by af Chapman had been intended to carry 36pdr long guns on their lower battery deck, but these guns were not ready by 1788 and the ships carried 24pdr:s instead. At least ~350 long 36pdr guns were cast between 1790 and 1808 for the ships of the line, with the 24pdr:s being put on frigates or moved to fortifications.

Unfortunately, I don't have reliable data on gun production of the era beyond that.
Interesting information, as always.

But why the need for about 350 36 pdr long guns? Only 7 of af Chapman's "Crownprince Gustaf Adolf" - class remained after the war 1788-1790 and their lower decks had 28 guns.
Did the older ships also have smaller guns than first intended?
 
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Interesting information, as always.

But why the need for about 350 36 pdr long guns? Only 7 of af Chapman's "Crownprince Gustaf Adolf" - class remained after the war 1788-1790 and their lower decks had 28 guns.
Did the older ships also have smaller guns than first intended?
Yes, 7 of them - HMS Wasa, HMS Fäderneslandet, HMS Äran, HMS Försiktigheten, HMS Dristigheten, HMS Manligheten and HMS Tapperheten, each with 26x36pdr guns.

However, the older HMS Konung Adolf Fredrik (26x36pdr guns) and HMS Konung Gustaf III (26x36pdr guns) were also upgraded, and the newer HMS Gustaf den Store recieved 30x36pdr guns when completed 1799.

Also, three Hemmema archipelago frigates were re-armed with 22x36pdr guns.

That makes for a total of 330 guns, but considering the need for spare guns, I'd argue that some 350 might have been made.
 
Yes, 7 of them - HMS Wasa, HMS Fäderneslandet, HMS Äran, HMS Försiktigheten, HMS Dristigheten, HMS Manligheten and HMS Tapperheten, each with 26x36pdr guns.
You forgot HMS Dygden, she was not lost in the war but in 1793.
And Wasa was a prototype, was she also considered part of the "Crownprince Gustaf Adolf" - class or viewed as a class of her own? She was a little shorter and lower with fewer guns.
However, the older HMS Konung Adolf Fredrik (26x36pdr guns) and HMS Konung Gustaf III (26x36pdr guns) were also upgraded, and the newer HMS Gustaf den Store recieved 30x36pdr guns when completed 1799.

Also, three Hemmema archipelago frigates were re-armed with 22x36pdr guns.
Thank you that information.
That makes for a total of 330 guns, but considering the need for spare guns, I'd argue that some 350 might have been made.
Most likely other guns than 36 pdr long guns was also made during that time.
 
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Winter and spring 1792
Stockholm, early winter 1791

Heated arguments relieved exhausting arguments round and round in what to king Gustav seemed like a never-ending cycle of governmental disagreement. That the commoners seemed to accept the suggested reformation in government and taxes was all but overlooked by most of the government as the nobility did not accept the suggestions. The strengthening of the army and fortifications was apparently only a good thing if the funds came from the current taxes, improvements of the infrastructure was the same. The government was in almost unison that all changes except the tax reform was good things, but things the king should pay for himself. That the changes would make Sweden richer and stronger meant nothing if the nobility had to contribute to the realizations of those projects.

King Gustav started to doubt himself, had he made a terrible mistake? He desperately needed the nobility onboard in the new era to come. He did not know how much more of these argumentations and debates he would have the strength to participate in. If they only could see the greater good in his plans for the future of the realm. But that seemed more and more like an impossibility as the unfulfilling meetings dragged on and on. It was not as much the government that disagreed with him as the government’s knowledge in the opinions of the nobility.



When the king received a letter of disproval from the commander of Sveaborg´s fortress with the commander refusing to start constructions of new forts before funds for those constructions actually came in real riksdaler and not promises. Further the commander had the audacity to demand artillery in sufficient numbers to the existing forts before even a single tree was cut down on a site for a new fort. Luckily the commander would continue the works of connections between the existing forts and improvement to the dockyard within the current funds to the fortress.

That was the last setback the king managed. No more pointless arguments with the government. He was to talk directly to the ones opposing his grand plans. He must speak to the collected nobility in his realm, he was certain they would listen to him and see the reason in the changes. Together with his advisors they pondered on when and where such a meeting should take place. To gather the Riksdag at the same time was seen as a good idea, if they all could be persuaded to change their minds the first step to implement the reforms would be in place. And in November he called for an assemble of the Riksdag to take place in Gävle at the start of the next year.



Gävle, February 1792

For almost a month the Riksdag gathered in Gävle. The small town almost had its population doubled during the occasion and a new hall to house the high number of participants had to be built since no building of sufficient size existed in Gävle. In prince Gustavs mind Gävle was truly a small city, but it was part of his future realm and he visited almost all corners of the coastal town. Sadly, even a trip to Norrland was not enough to save him from his studies. But this time it was not just the usual studies, on top of all other studies a degree examination for the prince took place. God willing, he would soon be free of some of his studies.

For the king the Riksdag was a mixture of success and failure. The peasantry, the bourgeoisie and the clergy agreed to most of the king and governments wishes. The chivalry´s and nobility´s views on the topics could at best be summarized as inconclusive. Gustav held several passionate speeches for the assembled Riksdag and the different social classes and managed to persuade several of the members who had not decided already. A few numbers among the nobility seemed to loosen their rock-hard resistance, others upright refused to listen to him. When the votes was counted a majority in the Riksdag was for the governmental and taxation reform, but a majority within the nobility was against it. Neither the king nor the government wanted to act against a majority of the nobility, afraid they might take more active actions against them should they force the changes. A formal decision on the reformations had to happen later, it was still too soon with not enough support.



Stockholm, March 1792

King Gustav attended a masked ball at the Royal Opera House. During a superb dinner among close friends, he received an anonymous letter describing that he was most likely to be murdered in the hours to come. Gustav who had received numerous threats to his life thought nothing special about this threat.

He showed the letter to his friends who begged him not to attend the ball and instead leave the opera house. “-Should they be allowed to believe that I am afraid?” was the king’s response as he took of his disguise and walked out to an open opera balcony where he silently stood several minutes before he said “- This was their opportunity to shoot. Come let us go, the ball seems bright and merry” and then walked down to the ball, his friends in close pursuit.

When the king reached the dancing participants several masked men approached him, the king stopped and began to turn around when one of the masked men shot him with a pistol, the bullet went in in his back and continued towards the hip. The king twitched by the shot and when his lifeguards was by his side he said “-I am wounded, take me away from here and catch him!” before he was taken to his quarters.

All exits to the Opera House was sealed and several of the culprits could be captured. The list of potential culprits was to long and they had to narrow it down to a manageable number. The king did not die by the shot, but he was seriously wounded.

From his sickbed king Gustav knew he would die. He asked his most trusted advisors and friends to act as mentors and guardians to his son, to make sure young Gustav was protected. His deathbed seemed to have made his mind clearer as he asked the officials from the war collage to implement the suggested changes but keep them within reason. If things proved to expensive or seemed nearly impossible to complete, find the best solution. When asked of the kings beloved project of Sveaborg he answered them to strengthen it to their best effort. “-If you must choose between a large and strong army or a large and strong fortress, choose the army but make the fortress strong”.

To his son he yet again made it clear that Russia was to be kept as a friend, that Gustav must make a Russian princess as his wife. “-I have heard that they are all beautiful and fair, you will manage” he said with a fatherly smile upon his face. “-Stand by Russia in the wars to come and Russia will stand by your side”. The king spent all time he could with his son in the hopes of having the time to let him hear all he wanted to say to him. “-And Gustav, heal our kingdom. What happened to me must never happen to a ruler of our realm again” the king stated again and again to his son.

On the 29th of March King Gustav died from his wound moments after his last words "-I feel sleepy, a few moments' rest would do me good". The kingdom of Sweden mourned their murdered king.



Sweden, spring 1792

The nobles in the kingdom of Sweden that had stood by their king did their best to let everyone with ears know they were loyal subjects. The ones who opposed the reforms but wanted to reason and talk with the king instead of committing treason loudly claimed they never would have supported such a disgusting deed as to murder their king. And the ones formerly suggesting dethroning or a murder like what had happened tried their best to hide.

The kingdom boiled. Commoners demanding that the age of nobles must come to an end. Screaming for blood. Protest gathered huge amount of common people carrying nooses and chanting of the hanging of the nobility. The king had showed that he wanted the blue-blooded man to share the burden with paying for the state, shared that he wanted to reform the government and give the people the right to vote and started to strengthen the Swedish arms. And those privileged nobles had refused and instead of reason they had murdered the king.

To the nobles wanting to claim the throne or impose a noble rule with the underaged king as a puppet it became clear that such an act would not be easy. The noble officers testified that the common soldiers would not follow if the order to take power by force came, no they wound most likely murder every noble officer in the army should they issue such an order. Some nobles pondered on using the forces in Finland to take power if the troops in Sweden proper would not follow. About half a dozen relatively high-ranking officers had made the mistake to talk of such action to loudly and was found one morning hanging from the buildings around the city square in Åbo, the word “Traitor” carved over their chest and stomach.

It became apparent to the nobility that if they tried to act against the current rule there would be a revolution, the masses would tear them to pieces. There was only one way if they wanted to stay alive and stop the masses from demanding their heads. They must agree to the governmental and taxational reform the majority in the Riksdag in Gävle agreed upon. Paying taxes was after all the preferred option if the other options would result in the loss of their lives.



In April Gustav was crowned as Gustav IV Adolf. The young king was heartbroken by the loss of his father, he nearly refused to be crowned out of fear that they would kill him as soon as he had the crown on his head. The lifeguard had taking what actions they could to prevent such a tragedy from occurring. Svea livgarde, Göta livgarde and Finnish liferegiment together with the liferegiment brigade held Stockholm in an iron grip during the coronation.



At the end of May, the tax reform and new form of government was implemented.

The executive power was with the king.

The taxing power with the Riksdag.

The legislative power: in joint legislative power divided by the king and Riksdag, taxes and appropriations with the Riksdag, economic legislation on authorities with the king, judicial power with the supreme court.

The freedom of press ordinance had all censorship revoked.

Noble land was no longer tax-exempt.

Landless workers and merchant was to be taxed based on income.

Goods that could be domestically produced was to have an import tax.

All males above the age of 20 with a taxable value of their lands of at least 1,000 Riksdaler or a yearly income of at least 800 Riksdaler would have the right to vote for parliament.
 
And TTL must play out exactly as OTL in a possible war with Russia because?

The TTL does not have to get such a war to start with because if whoever rules Sweden at that time is not an ideological maniac who is considering Nappy to be an Antichrist, there is no war. Notice that in OTL by 1810 (Finland is lost) the Swedish government was quite eager to please the former Antichrist all the way to asking his endorsement for candidacy of the future crown prince. Needless to say that in 1810 chance for getting Finland back was quite slim because Nappy and Alex still had been, at least formally, friends and by that reason Nappy formally refused to get directly involved in the selection process.

Or Alexander may decide not to start a war on OTL schedule or just to use more troops from the very beginning.

The same goes for a possible TTL war: if it happens, it may be conducted differently by both sides. For example, Alexander could appoint somebody more capable than Buxhoevden and then Knorring.

Not sure what anything of the above has to do with the geography or the caliber and range of Sveaborg artillery which is seemingly being placed there by 1791 and, at least the calibers mentioned as used to bombard Helsinki, being seemingly too heavy (48 and 60 pounds) for a conventional field usage.


OK, it is fine. The Swedes built a huge and expensive fortress intended to serve as a supply base and then abandoned (or almost abandoned) it.

Are the Russian army incapable of ever loosing a battle?
Happened more than once but you keep proposing a lame duck scenario on the Swedish side so it is rather hard to imagine how the Russian defeat could be achieved taking into an account that in OTL leadership wise Russia was already operating under the worst case scenario and had problems with getting a siege artillery moved over the snow all the way from St-Petersburg. Notice that on the Russian side it’s number was minuscule comparing to what the Swedes had.

If so, why does not Russia controll the world?

Please, try to be consistent. Either you have an expanded Sveaborg as a functioning fortress or you don’t. You simply can’t have both scenarios simultaneously because they are mutually contradicting.

If expanded Sveaborg is maintained up to the existing plan, then attack on its isolated land sector is logical thing to do if whoever is in charge on the Russian side decides to do so. Starting from Vauban’s time taking a fortress was just a matter of time. If he does not, Helsinki is within range of the Russian artillery and can easily be burned. Artillery of the island part is useless in the terms of supporting your “chocking points”.

If expanded Sveaborg is not fully maintained then attack on the land sector is much easier.

But if the whole thing is about Sweden losing a war then I’m not sure why do you insist on the Russian defeat at Sveaborg.



.

Did Reval and Kronstadt lack all types of land based defences?
1626719522583.jpeg

By the early XIX Kronstadt (above) was completely lacking the land based fortifications so Sveaborg would not be unique, both of them being the island-based fortresses.

AFAIK, Reval fortifications, at least the surviving ones, belong to the 14-15 century. Did not see any more recent fortifications on the land side (below).

1626720000826.jpeg

That would be highly dependent on how the fortress was used in war time.

The introduction of CNC-machinery as an example increased quality and made manufacturing alot cheaper, as well as faster.
It is not a universal law that a project aimed at decreasing costs always means the costs go up and the quality go down.
You did not quite get what I was trying to say. Of course, there is a general technological progress since XIX century, who doubts it? The point is that there is no “pure capitalism” based exclusively upon efficiency anymore and that neither government nor the big companies are good in being efficient (after working for some of the big ones, I got some experience in that area). But this is rather XX-XXI centuries phenomena.
Getting back to your initial idea, the XVIII century saw more than one monarch trying to fight a corruption and make things more efficient and, at least in Russia, all of them failed. Even a much smaller Sweden is still too big for a ruler being able to be present everywhere and control everything and the reliable substitutes who are just as dedicated, unselfish and capable as that ideal ruler are not growing on the trees and their number is quite limited. They also can’t oversee everything personally and have to rely upon the paper work. And as soon as the paper work is in place, the bureaucracy is kicking in. And the first law of bureaucracy is “CYA”, the 2nd is “expand” and the 3rd “don’t make waves”. And I did not even start with the personal interest. Something can be pushed through but usually situation resulting from the government-based interferences is just getting more messy.
 
The TTL does not have to get such a war to start with because if whoever rules Sweden at that time is not an ideological maniac who is considering Nappy to be an Antichrist, there is no war. Notice that in OTL by 1810 (Finland is lost) the Swedish government was quite eager to please the former Antichrist all the way to asking his endorsement for candidacy of the future crown prince. Needless to say that in 1810 chance for getting Finland back was quite slim because Nappy and Alex still had been, at least formally, friends and by that reason Nappy formally refused to get directly involved in the selection process.

Or Alexander may decide not to start a war on OTL schedule or just to use more troops from the very beginning.

The same goes for a possible TTL war: if it happens, it may be conducted differently by both sides. For example, Alexander could appoint somebody more capable than Buxhoevden and then Knorring.

Not sure what anything of the above has to do with the geography or the caliber and range of Sveaborg artillery which is seemingly being placed there by 1791 and, at least the calibers mentioned as used to bombard Helsinki, being seemingly too heavy (48 and 60 pounds) for a conventional field usage.



OK, it is fine. The Swedes built a huge and expensive fortress intended to serve as a supply base and then abandoned (or almost abandoned) it.


Happened more than once but you keep proposing a lame duck scenario on the Swedish side so it is rather hard to imagine how the Russian defeat could be achieved taking into an account that in OTL leadership wise Russia was already operating under the worst case scenario and had problems with getting a siege artillery moved over the snow all the way from St-Petersburg. Notice that on the Russian side it’s number was minuscule comparing to what the Swedes had.



Please, try to be consistent. Either you have an expanded Sveaborg as a functioning fortress or you don’t. You simply can’t have both scenarios simultaneously because they are mutually contradicting.

If expanded Sveaborg is maintained up to the existing plan, then attack on its isolated land sector is logical thing to do if whoever is in charge on the Russian side decides to do so. Starting from Vauban’s time taking a fortress was just a matter of time. If he does not, Helsinki is within range of the Russian artillery and can easily be burned. Artillery of the island part is useless in the terms of supporting your “chocking points”.

If expanded Sveaborg is not fully maintained then attack on the land sector is much easier.

But if the whole thing is about Sweden losing a war then I’m not sure why do you insist on the Russian defeat at Sveaborg.




View attachment 667401
By the early XIX Kronstadt (above) was completely lacking the land based fortifications so Sveaborg would not be unique, both of them being the island-based fortresses.

AFAIK, Reval fortifications, at least the surviving ones, belong to the 14-15 century. Did not see any more recent fortifications on the land side (below).

View attachment 667402

You did not quite get what I was trying to say. Of course, there is a general technological progress since XIX century, who doubts it? The point is that there is no “pure capitalism” based exclusively upon efficiency anymore and that neither government nor the big companies are good in being efficient (after working for some of the big ones, I got some experience in that area). But this is rather XX-XXI centuries phenomena.
Getting back to your initial idea, the XVIII century saw more than one monarch trying to fight a corruption and make things more efficient and, at least in Russia, all of them failed. Even a much smaller Sweden is still too big for a ruler being able to be present everywhere and control everything and the reliable substitutes who are just as dedicated, unselfish and capable as that ideal ruler are not growing on the trees and their number is quite limited. They also can’t oversee everything personally and have to rely upon the paper work. And as soon as the paper work is in place, the bureaucracy is kicking in. And the first law of bureaucracy is “CYA”, the 2nd is “expand” and the 3rd “don’t make waves”. And I did not even start with the personal interest. Something can be pushed through but usually situation resulting from the government-based interferences is just getting more messy.
Have I claimed that the Russian forces would meet their doom at the walls of Sveaborg, or that Sweden would be capable of withstanding a dedicated Russian invasion of Finland.

As I recall the only time a possible war (in the time line) with Russia has been mentioned the general concensus was that Russia is post war of 1788-1790 precieved as an existential threat to Sweden.

I for one see that as a statement that I find it unlikely that Sweden ITTL are capable of beating Russia in a war.
 
I really like your story.
Will you do something with the united scandinavia movement?
Allso if the marriage between Gustav and Alexandra is working out. She can do what Karl XVI did in the OTL and introduce that it is possible to eat mushrooms in Sweden.
 
I really like your story.
Will you do something with the united scandinavia movement?
Allso if the marriage between Gustav and Alexandra is working out. She can do what Karl XVI did in the OTL and introduce that it is possible to eat mushrooms in Sweden.
Thank you, hope it is not too obvious that I am no writer and not a native english speaker.

First plan I had was to end it after the OTL napoleonic era. If I were to be true to that it is to early for Scandinavianism to hit. With my ideas for the nordic countries I believe that it can start a little sooner, but Denmark will be a little grumpy for a while.
It was really close that Gustav and Alexandra married OTL, so highly likely it will happen when Gustav III said what he did to his son on his deathbed.
The mushroom thing I have zero knowledge about, if it was part of the Russian diet and the Russian court munched schrooms, well why not.

I am happy to take ideas from people reading this and I am not to proud to change my first plans if something come up that will make the story "better".
 
I wonder if the reforms will shrink the numbers of people that emigrated from Sweden to America under the 19th century?
 
I wonder if the reforms will shrink the numbers of people that emigrated from Sweden to America under the 19th century?
It is really close to the form of government of 1809. Probably needs some more improvements besides the right to vote for a few "lucky" ones to prevent them from moving to Montana.

Any suggestions?
 
The famine between 1867-1869 was a factor why many people left the country. So if the government handles that better fewer people will leave. But that is a little long into the futur.
 
Summer 1792
Stockholm, June 1792

King Gustav IV´s uncle duke Karl became the regent in Sweden until Gustav came of age. Both had a full time to learn all that was needed to rule the country. To keep himself occupied and not think to much of his father’s assassination Gustav decided to learn how to speak Finnish. With French, Swedish and Russian in the progress Finnish seemed like the next natural step, many of his subjects did after all speak Finnish and the ability to speak with all his subjects seemed like a good thing in Gustav´s mind. Later he even started to learn Latin, Gustav was to be one of the most multilingual kings in Swedish history.

In May, just after the new form of government had been applied, Gustav together with his uncle Karl attended a briefing with the head of treasury. The income for the state for the year 1791 had been 6,400,000 Riksdaler with a surplus of barely 200,000 Riksdaler. Still not the real ruler Gustav asked if the funds to complete his fathers grand project of having Sveaborg and Svartholm finished to Ehrensvärds plans was within what the state could afford. The head of treasury honestly answered that it was not, ongoing construction for several decades and it was possible, but not in the 12-year plan Gustav III wanted. The workforce was available but not the finances. There was a royal decree to complete the fortresses, so they decided to for now go along with a low-scaled construction program.

40,000 rubles in Russian subsidies was to come for the first time this year. Gustav and Karl were informed of the existing trade deal with Russia and for the first time during his rule as king Gustav showed that he understood economy when he suggested an improvement that most likely would benefit both Sweden and Russia. Instead of selling 200,000 rubles worth of hemp annually to Sweden and giving Sweden 40,000 rubles annually, in reality giving Sweden money to buy the hemp. Would it not be a better solution to give Sweden 40,000 rubles worth of hemp and selling 160,000 rubles worth of hemp duty free? The head of treasury said he would contact the Russian ambassador with this solution.



The governmental assembly in June became a heated meeting. War had broken out in Europe. France had declared war on Austria. Prussia and Sardinia joined the Austrian side in the conflict. If Russia decided to join, Sweden most be ready. None wanted to actively start preparations as that might be seen as a hostile move and force the kingdom in to war. The best solution was seemed to be to plan for war but no reinforcements to Swedish Pomerania or Wismar was to be sent, for now.

When the government discussed the workforce for the fortresses and upcoming road-project the unemployed landless people seemed to be the best ones to utilize. However, the two regiments currently stationed at Sveaborg was more than enough for the small-scale improvements currently taking place. The decision became that the unemployed was to be used when the states finances improved enough to commence large-scale constructions on the fortresses and for when the project for improving of the current road system and for building new roads.



Stockholm, July 1792

The Russian ambassador in Sweden called for a meeting with the king, regent and minister of foreign affairs. The Swedish government was certain Russia would join the war against France and now came to activate their alliance. The meeting took place at Stockholm castle. And after welcoming the Russian ambassador regent Karl wanted to show Sweden’s dedication to the cause by saying.

“Ambassador, Sweden is ready to join in a war against France. We can ship forces to the continent in short time. Together we will crush the republic and reinstall the Bourbon dynasty.”

“I appreciate your dedication duke Karl”
the ambassador answered “but that is not why I called for this meeting, Russia will not be going to war, at least not now.”

The ambassador continued “The reason why I called for this meeting is that it has come to our knowledge that you have undertaken or at the very least plan to undertake large constructions on your fortresses closest to our border. May I ask why you feel inclined for such actions at the very border to your ally? The Russian leadership is concerned by these actions, and if you are to continue, we will view it as a severe provocation”

The room fell silent, this was not what the Swedish government thought would be discussed during this meeting. After several silent minutes duke Karl took to words.

“Honored ambassador, is it the Russian empires view that we cannot construct fortifications of defensive nature? I assure you that the completion of Sveaborg and Svartholm are nothing but the kingdom fulfilling the dying wish of our murdered king, and not in any way a provocation aimed at our ally”

“Well of course not your royal highness”
the ambassador stated “obviously Russia is not to command you on what forts you build and where. The forts on the islands near our borders was there when we formed this alliance. And if you were to complete, strengthen or modernize those we would see that as you merely doing maintenance, and that could hardly be seen as a provocation. It is your plans to construct new forts at land close to our borders we have objections about”

There was a few moments of silence once again before the young king decided to speak.

“Honored ambassador, I assure you that our plans for the fortifications is as my uncle stated, us fulfilling the last wish of my father. Our good relation with the Russian empire is of high importance to us, and we will obviously not partake in projects that could damage our good relations. We will of course reconsider how and what we improve on our eastern fortifications. I thank you for addressing this issue in good time before we started something that Russia could not accept.”

A warm smile came over the face of the ambassador as he said “I will send words to the empress that our trusted ally has changed their minds and listened to our reasonable objections. I assure you she will be placed to hear this. As a sign of good faith, we agree on giving Sweden hemp instead of money as subsidies, and we will give you 45,000 rubles worth of hemp each year for the 12-year duration of the subsidies. And you will still have the opportunity to buy 160,000 rubles worth of hemp each year for the duration of the subsidies, the last years of our trade deal you can once again buy 200,000 rubles worth of hemp yearly.”



Stockholm, August 1792

Some weeks after the meeting with the Russian ambassador the government was assembled along with the army’s and navy’s high officials and officers to discuss how to deal with this new information. At one side they had the royal decree to complete the fortresses, on the other side they did not want to provoke Russia, and the king had in his deathbed changed his mind some on the fortifications, as well as the statement in the royal decree that small changes to was allowed if it improved the defensive abilities. Not angering Russia was indeed an improvement to the overall Swedish defensive ability.

There was indeed a consensus in the government that forts on the land side of neither Sveaborg nor Svartholm was possible as that apparently would provoke Russia, possible ending the alliance. As Russia did not see total completion, improvements and modernization of the forts on the islands as a provocation they agreed that constructions, armament and improvements was to be confined to the island forts, and no fortifications on land was to be built. The head of treasury was rejoiced as that meant the cost of the project would decrease by a huge amount of money. The army and navy was pleased that more resources could be spent on the fleet and army instead of draining them of funds to pay for a huge fortress. And all of the government was pleased since Russia could accept improvements on the existing forts, maintaining the good relations and the alliance.

When the armament of the forts came up for discussion a total of 1,100 guns was needed for both fortresses, and more fortifications, ships and army units needed more and newer guns. The eastern fortifications was to have one forth of the yearly production of guns, meaning it would take about 10 years to arm them fully, only then could a replacement of the older guns start, which probably would take some more years.

It was at this time rear admiral Rajalin, who by being the general superintendent of the navy was present during this governmental meeting, presented a solution. 10 ships of the line was to have their lower gundecks rearmed from 24-pdr´s to 36-pdr long guns and 4 hemmema class archipelago frigates was to be rearmed to 36-pdr long guns. This would free 260 24-pdr, 64 12-pdr and 16 3-pdr guns. The 324 heavier guns could go to Sveaborg, decreasing the time needed to fully arm the fortress while the 3-pdr easily could be refitted and sent to the army´s brigade artillery companies who was to be armed with 3-pdr´s.

The government decided to complete all bastions on the island forts in the east, complete the dockyard and storages in Sveaborg as well as have all forts properly armed. One forth of the gun production was to be allocated to the fortresses and the left-over guns from the upcoming rearmament of the ships was to be sent to Sveaborg and the smaller pieces to the army. The states finances would indeed greatly improve by this new decision as would the relations with the Russian empire.
 
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