Looks like Wilson's government and Wall Street could being seeing a few of these in their futures.
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A Better Rifle at Halloween
- Thread starter diesal
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- britwank rifles ww1 different
Looks like Wilson's government and Wall Street could being seeing a few of these in their futures.
Faggots are a unit of weight for the measurement of Iron and steel, so they could be used for unfilled bombs, but not filled ones, or oc course for solid steel shot. Possibly for guns and their carriages?
They were all on about carriers, radars, Swordsfish and Albacores, and would you believe Turret fighters! We are now back on track over there having had a brief mention of experimental semi automatic .303 rifles. It is getting hard to tell which thread I'm on.....
I have now finished the project lightening video. The Lewis gun is much heavier the the Farquhar beardmore LMG. I see the Lewis as being an excellent example of a heavy LMG whilst I see the Farquhar beardmore as being more like a bren gun. I think it will be a case of more of both and also a question of the tactical uses.
I an not sure at under 30lb I would ever call the Lewis a heavy machine gun, Maxim's and Vickers are around double that weight and I would consider that the Bench mark for a HMG.
The Bren was only around 5 Lb less in weight than the early shrouded Lewis guns.
The stripped down Lewis as carried by the Home Guard soldier nearest the camera in the back row probably weighs little more than a Bren gun.
The Bren was only around 5 Lb less in weight than the early shrouded Lewis guns.
The stripped down Lewis as carried by the Home Guard soldier nearest the camera in the back row probably weighs little more than a Bren gun.
I wasn't suggesting that the Lewis was a HMG just that it was a heavier light machine gun.I an not sure at under 30lb I would ever call the Lewis a heavy machine gun, Maxim's and Vickers are around double that weight and I would consider that the Bench mark for a HMG.
The Bren was only around 5 Lb less in weight than the early shrouded Lewis guns.
The stripped down Lewis as carried by the Home Guard soldier nearest the camera in the back row probably weighs little more than a Bren gun.
These are the unloaded weights of each weapon for comparison.
Bren
- 22.8 lb unloaded
- 26 lb unloaded
From the Beardmore Farquhar Manual
- 15 1/2 lb unloaded
- It had a 81 round magazine so that may have weighed about 9 or 10 pounds additionally, so lighter than either by a long way. And it you watch Farquhar firing it it is easily controlled by an older man. I suspect it would have bee possible to convert it to a belt feeding mechanism as well.
At Easter Island
15th October 1914, South Pacific.
The South Sea Squadron had finished coaling and making the minor repairs necessitated by the recent battle, Admiral Yamaya had ordered Karuma and Tsukuba to coal first whilst the Asuma patrolled to the north of the island. Once Karuma finished coaling she took over patrol duties while Asuma filled her bunkers. As well as coaling, expedient boiler cleaning and rapid repairs the crews of the three Japanese ships had been dealing with the various prisoners taken. Among the Germans, few of the officers who survived were unwounded, Vice Admiral Graf von Spee had gone down with Scharnhorst. although both of von Spee’s sons had survived, one aboard the Gneisenau when she surrendered and the other plucked from the sea after the sinking of Nurnberg. Nurnberg’s survivors numbered fewer than 100, with another 240 rescued from SMS Scharnhorst. The bulk of the 793 prisoners came from Gneisenau, though many were wounded. The higher seas and the nature of the battle between Asuma and Dresden had resulted in a mere 46 men surviving her sinking.
The German prisoners would be sorted by rank with the sailors to be put aboard the colliers, which were to be returned to Japan under the command of prize crews. The officers, midshipmen and petty officers would all be kept aboard the Japanese ships to prevent them leading any attempts at resistance. After the battle the wrecked hulk of Gneisenau had been stripped of all that was useful, and she would be towed out to sea and scuttled.
Since the battle of Easter Island several distant radio broadcasts had been received, the first two were in a code scheme that corresponded to those of the German Navy, and which were therefore unreadable whilst the third and fourth were in the code of the German Merchant Marine. Yamaya had not captured any books for the Naval codes but the colliers who had wisely surrendered after the battle had disgorged more than just coal into his ships. His signals officer had recovered two copies of the German Merchant marine code, using them he managed to read the message from the distant ship. The message was relatively long, but it stated that SMS Leipzig had received two disrupted radio messages, both stated the ships were under attack before transmission ceased, the message from Dresden was slightly longer and identified her nemesis as a Japanese Cruiser.
The message went on to state, that none of Leipzig’s messages had received a reply from the East Asia Squadron and that the attack warnings were followed later by transmissions in Japanese code. Based on this information Frigate Captain Huan assumed that the Japanese Navy had engaged the East Asia Squadron at their rendezvous, destroying them in the process. Relying on this assessment, Leipzig would instead proceed south, coaling at a neutral port prior to running the straits of Magellan and attempting to return to Germany.
The South Seas Squadron was not in a position to easily intercept the Leipzig if she proceeded south at full speed, however Admiral Craddock’s squadron would certainly be able to intervene. Yamaya had received an update on the locations of Royal Navy detachments from Tokyo and knew that at least part of Craddock’s squadron was in Punta Arenas searching for German Commerce Raiders. Yamaya was aware that the British squadron was weaker than this own, though it had been recently reinforced by HMS Defence.
Admiral Yamaya ordered his signals officer to send another report to the Japanese Admiralty providing detail on the radio intercepts, with a specific request that it be passed onto the British Admiralty as quickly as possible. Yamaya continued to think about his options, it was possible that Leipzig might head north, or slip past the British ships. Yamaya lacked a copy of any British Naval codes, so he was unable to signal to Admiral Craddock directly, likewise he could not send the British a signal in clear as that might be read by the German Ship. All his ships were coaled and ready to sail, he would add to his report that his squadron was going to continue the pursuit of Leipzig, thereby finishing what he had done at Easter Island. He would sail for South America to add his force to the search for this last German light cruiser.
Admiral Yamaya was not strictly motivated solely by military necessity, he was also aware of the importance of politics, both within the Empire and without. The Navy was locked in a struggle for primacy with the Army, both services sought to maximise their support within the Court and Diet but also amongst the Japanese people. The crushing victory at Easter Island would justify the spending increases of the 6-6 law, but following the victory up by dispatching a powerful force to the America’s would show Japan’s global reach. The Empire would never be the plaything of other powers but would take her place at the top table when decisions were to be made.
The South Sea Squadron had finished coaling and making the minor repairs necessitated by the recent battle, Admiral Yamaya had ordered Karuma and Tsukuba to coal first whilst the Asuma patrolled to the north of the island. Once Karuma finished coaling she took over patrol duties while Asuma filled her bunkers. As well as coaling, expedient boiler cleaning and rapid repairs the crews of the three Japanese ships had been dealing with the various prisoners taken. Among the Germans, few of the officers who survived were unwounded, Vice Admiral Graf von Spee had gone down with Scharnhorst. although both of von Spee’s sons had survived, one aboard the Gneisenau when she surrendered and the other plucked from the sea after the sinking of Nurnberg. Nurnberg’s survivors numbered fewer than 100, with another 240 rescued from SMS Scharnhorst. The bulk of the 793 prisoners came from Gneisenau, though many were wounded. The higher seas and the nature of the battle between Asuma and Dresden had resulted in a mere 46 men surviving her sinking.
The German prisoners would be sorted by rank with the sailors to be put aboard the colliers, which were to be returned to Japan under the command of prize crews. The officers, midshipmen and petty officers would all be kept aboard the Japanese ships to prevent them leading any attempts at resistance. After the battle the wrecked hulk of Gneisenau had been stripped of all that was useful, and she would be towed out to sea and scuttled.
Since the battle of Easter Island several distant radio broadcasts had been received, the first two were in a code scheme that corresponded to those of the German Navy, and which were therefore unreadable whilst the third and fourth were in the code of the German Merchant Marine. Yamaya had not captured any books for the Naval codes but the colliers who had wisely surrendered after the battle had disgorged more than just coal into his ships. His signals officer had recovered two copies of the German Merchant marine code, using them he managed to read the message from the distant ship. The message was relatively long, but it stated that SMS Leipzig had received two disrupted radio messages, both stated the ships were under attack before transmission ceased, the message from Dresden was slightly longer and identified her nemesis as a Japanese Cruiser.
The message went on to state, that none of Leipzig’s messages had received a reply from the East Asia Squadron and that the attack warnings were followed later by transmissions in Japanese code. Based on this information Frigate Captain Huan assumed that the Japanese Navy had engaged the East Asia Squadron at their rendezvous, destroying them in the process. Relying on this assessment, Leipzig would instead proceed south, coaling at a neutral port prior to running the straits of Magellan and attempting to return to Germany.
The South Seas Squadron was not in a position to easily intercept the Leipzig if she proceeded south at full speed, however Admiral Craddock’s squadron would certainly be able to intervene. Yamaya had received an update on the locations of Royal Navy detachments from Tokyo and knew that at least part of Craddock’s squadron was in Punta Arenas searching for German Commerce Raiders. Yamaya was aware that the British squadron was weaker than this own, though it had been recently reinforced by HMS Defence.
Admiral Yamaya ordered his signals officer to send another report to the Japanese Admiralty providing detail on the radio intercepts, with a specific request that it be passed onto the British Admiralty as quickly as possible. Yamaya continued to think about his options, it was possible that Leipzig might head north, or slip past the British ships. Yamaya lacked a copy of any British Naval codes, so he was unable to signal to Admiral Craddock directly, likewise he could not send the British a signal in clear as that might be read by the German Ship. All his ships were coaled and ready to sail, he would add to his report that his squadron was going to continue the pursuit of Leipzig, thereby finishing what he had done at Easter Island. He would sail for South America to add his force to the search for this last German light cruiser.
Admiral Yamaya was not strictly motivated solely by military necessity, he was also aware of the importance of politics, both within the Empire and without. The Navy was locked in a struggle for primacy with the Army, both services sought to maximise their support within the Court and Diet but also amongst the Japanese people. The crushing victory at Easter Island would justify the spending increases of the 6-6 law, but following the victory up by dispatching a powerful force to the America’s would show Japan’s global reach. The Empire would never be the plaything of other powers but would take her place at the top table when decisions were to be made.
Well Wilson might have a way with bringing some people together. Between having the Anarchists and Red agitators that were the undesirables in Europe and now having the Japanese sending a Squadron of ships to South America, in what might be a violation of the Monroe Doctrine, and could even threaten US interests in the Far East, he now can take that to the American people and use that to get laws passed like they did in the Red Scare and improve the US's Navy and Army. Since Vera Cruz predates the start of this time line, what is going on down there in Mexico?
Thank you for the post. Wilson’s problems are escalating, I don’t know if the American response to japans visiting South America will be any stronger than their response to the battle of Easter island . In Mexico the Americans are as normal so far but the Mexican the various groups are going to actually meet so Mexico’s
Civil war is going to be delayed. Pancho Villa hasn’t broken with the rest yet so no incursions into US yet. The Japanese have not yet formulated the 21 demands so they are seen in the uk as a very capable ally.
The Prince, the Viscount and the Sergeant
17th October 1914, Dilbeek.
The siege of Brussels had begun in earnest, the German Garrison had withdrawn entirely inside the built-up areas, no longer making any attempt to contest the open ground where the disparity in artillery support was at its worst. Instead, they had chosen to take advantage of the defensive positions offered by a large city. Brussels was a city of brick and wood; high explosives readily demolished the buildings leaving mounds of rubble which both blocked the narrow streets and provided a chaotic topography which favoured the defender. This was the only real advantage possessed by the defenders and they would use it ruthlessly, their limited stocks of artillery and machine guns were being used carefully. As much as possible the Machine guns were not being hazarded directly on the front line rather, they were being positioned in buildings back from the fighting line, those with sufficient elevation to enable them to engage the attackers from relative safety.
Edward, The Prince of Wales had got his wish, he was about to go into action with the Grenadier Guards, the battalion had suffered casualties in the fighting, numbers had been somewhat made up by men called back from the special reserve, but the battalion was not at full strength. He had been given command of 9 platoon in C Company, its previous commander having been severely wounded only days before. Unusually the platoon was at full strength, it had been made up with transfers from other platoons. Edward was displeased that the battalion commander had felt this necessary, but he was also pragmatic enough to not fight it. He knew he was being protected, but he would fight, if he was to rule he must also serve, he had been raised on the stories of the Duke of Cumberland at Culloden and George the Second at Dettinghem, this war demanded so much of the men who were called to fight. Not just of the professionals for whom it was a job of work, but also the territorials pulled from factory and farm to defend Britain’s interests and even more importantly those men who were volunteering in a flood, joining the colours in the Empire’s hour of peril. Men from every corner of the empire, from the Lewis to Kent and from Banff to Dunedin. He had been impressed by the massed ranks of Indian Army troops that he had inspected; he would earn their respect in Belgium.
The company commander, Captain the Viscount Gort, had been blunt, “I do not want you here Your Highness, but now that you are here we must make the best of it, you are not properly trained for what we are doing” carrying on in the same view he then said “Your time at Dartmouth is all well and good, but with the greatest of respect to the Senior Service, that hasn’t really prepared you fully for the fighting here in Belgium”
He then mellowed somewhat as he realised that the prince knew he wasn’t ready but was determined to do what he saw as his duty anyway. “Sergeant Barrett is fine man, he has been with the battalion since South Africa and knows his business, you would be well served by listening to his advice” his voice rose slightly as if to emphasis his point he stated “Do not engage in cheap heroics, I don’t want to have to do for you what I did for your grandfather”, realising he was in danger of pomposity Lord Gort cut himself off, finishing by saying “The Regiment was with George the 2nd at Dettinghan, discipline and leadership won the day then and it will win the day now”
The Prince of Wales was then dismissed, saluting sharply he turned on his heel and marched out of the room that his Company commander was using, he collected the Sergeant who had been waiting patiently outside. The Sergeant at 6’ 4” tall towered over the prince, he looked every inch the experienced long service Guards NCO, his father had been a Guardsman and as had his grandfather before him. The surfeit of nobility within the regiment had somewhat inured him to royalty, the Prince of Wales was only just 20 years old and very inexperienced, and the Sergeant had been dealing with green Subalterns for years. Prince Edward had trained with enthusiasm since joining the battalion in June but had been left out of battle in a staff billet since the fighting began.
The Sergeant was unsure as to how best to deal with the challenge he had been presented with the Prince of Wales was determined to fight, but his inexperience in what was some of the most dangerous fighting there was, would put him at risk. He decided to be completely frank, better to run the risk of offending the prince than a misunderstanding leading to his death. “Sir, as Lord Gort would have told you we are trying to winkle the Hun out of the city” he stated as something of a preamble, “fighting in a city is hard, half the time it is just a single section brawling in some basement or attic. We are going in with fixed bayonets and pistols or revolvers for those who have them. I see you have a side arm, but ditch your sword sir, that is next to useless in a fight in some Belgians kitchen. Take a rifle sir, I know you can shoot with it, we have all seen you training.” The Prince weighed up the Sergeants advice “Sergeant I have another Pistol in my baggage, it was a gift from my father so that will give me two, I will use a rifle if we are in the open, but I think I will keep the sword, I have been training with them since I was a boy at Osborne, then Dartmouth and aboard Hindustan”
Both the sergeant and the Prince were slightly surprised by this, the Prince was frustrated that he was being treated like an amateur, he was willing to listen and take orders but he would not be treated like a puppy. The sergeant was pleased that the prince would be an active participant in the platoon, he had been concerned that he was going to have to carry him, now it seemed more likely that he would have to restrain him.
The Sergeant continued “Sir, we are going to have some practice today and tomorrow, we will be working on how to fight in built up areas before we go back into the line. There is no sign these Huns are going to surrender so we will just have to go in and kill them all”
The siege of Brussels had begun in earnest, the German Garrison had withdrawn entirely inside the built-up areas, no longer making any attempt to contest the open ground where the disparity in artillery support was at its worst. Instead, they had chosen to take advantage of the defensive positions offered by a large city. Brussels was a city of brick and wood; high explosives readily demolished the buildings leaving mounds of rubble which both blocked the narrow streets and provided a chaotic topography which favoured the defender. This was the only real advantage possessed by the defenders and they would use it ruthlessly, their limited stocks of artillery and machine guns were being used carefully. As much as possible the Machine guns were not being hazarded directly on the front line rather, they were being positioned in buildings back from the fighting line, those with sufficient elevation to enable them to engage the attackers from relative safety.
Edward, The Prince of Wales had got his wish, he was about to go into action with the Grenadier Guards, the battalion had suffered casualties in the fighting, numbers had been somewhat made up by men called back from the special reserve, but the battalion was not at full strength. He had been given command of 9 platoon in C Company, its previous commander having been severely wounded only days before. Unusually the platoon was at full strength, it had been made up with transfers from other platoons. Edward was displeased that the battalion commander had felt this necessary, but he was also pragmatic enough to not fight it. He knew he was being protected, but he would fight, if he was to rule he must also serve, he had been raised on the stories of the Duke of Cumberland at Culloden and George the Second at Dettinghem, this war demanded so much of the men who were called to fight. Not just of the professionals for whom it was a job of work, but also the territorials pulled from factory and farm to defend Britain’s interests and even more importantly those men who were volunteering in a flood, joining the colours in the Empire’s hour of peril. Men from every corner of the empire, from the Lewis to Kent and from Banff to Dunedin. He had been impressed by the massed ranks of Indian Army troops that he had inspected; he would earn their respect in Belgium.
The company commander, Captain the Viscount Gort, had been blunt, “I do not want you here Your Highness, but now that you are here we must make the best of it, you are not properly trained for what we are doing” carrying on in the same view he then said “Your time at Dartmouth is all well and good, but with the greatest of respect to the Senior Service, that hasn’t really prepared you fully for the fighting here in Belgium”
He then mellowed somewhat as he realised that the prince knew he wasn’t ready but was determined to do what he saw as his duty anyway. “Sergeant Barrett is fine man, he has been with the battalion since South Africa and knows his business, you would be well served by listening to his advice” his voice rose slightly as if to emphasis his point he stated “Do not engage in cheap heroics, I don’t want to have to do for you what I did for your grandfather”, realising he was in danger of pomposity Lord Gort cut himself off, finishing by saying “The Regiment was with George the 2nd at Dettinghan, discipline and leadership won the day then and it will win the day now”
The Prince of Wales was then dismissed, saluting sharply he turned on his heel and marched out of the room that his Company commander was using, he collected the Sergeant who had been waiting patiently outside. The Sergeant at 6’ 4” tall towered over the prince, he looked every inch the experienced long service Guards NCO, his father had been a Guardsman and as had his grandfather before him. The surfeit of nobility within the regiment had somewhat inured him to royalty, the Prince of Wales was only just 20 years old and very inexperienced, and the Sergeant had been dealing with green Subalterns for years. Prince Edward had trained with enthusiasm since joining the battalion in June but had been left out of battle in a staff billet since the fighting began.
The Sergeant was unsure as to how best to deal with the challenge he had been presented with the Prince of Wales was determined to fight, but his inexperience in what was some of the most dangerous fighting there was, would put him at risk. He decided to be completely frank, better to run the risk of offending the prince than a misunderstanding leading to his death. “Sir, as Lord Gort would have told you we are trying to winkle the Hun out of the city” he stated as something of a preamble, “fighting in a city is hard, half the time it is just a single section brawling in some basement or attic. We are going in with fixed bayonets and pistols or revolvers for those who have them. I see you have a side arm, but ditch your sword sir, that is next to useless in a fight in some Belgians kitchen. Take a rifle sir, I know you can shoot with it, we have all seen you training.” The Prince weighed up the Sergeants advice “Sergeant I have another Pistol in my baggage, it was a gift from my father so that will give me two, I will use a rifle if we are in the open, but I think I will keep the sword, I have been training with them since I was a boy at Osborne, then Dartmouth and aboard Hindustan”
Both the sergeant and the Prince were slightly surprised by this, the Prince was frustrated that he was being treated like an amateur, he was willing to listen and take orders but he would not be treated like a puppy. The sergeant was pleased that the prince would be an active participant in the platoon, he had been concerned that he was going to have to carry him, now it seemed more likely that he would have to restrain him.
The Sergeant continued “Sir, we are going to have some practice today and tomorrow, we will be working on how to fight in built up areas before we go back into the line. There is no sign these Huns are going to surrender so we will just have to go in and kill them all”
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An Emperor lies dying
17th September 1914, Vienna
The old man was slipping away, the doctors had been and said they could do no more, the rattle and rasp of days before had become pneumonia. He had seemed to rally a few days ago but now he was in Cheyne-Stokes, the doctors were summoned along with the Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Fredrich Gustav Piffl, who had given the dying Emperor Extreme Unction. The Emperor’s heir Charles was present, his face a mask of piety and sorrow, sentiments magnified by the daunting task that would soon befall him.
The old man was slipping away, the doctors had been and said they could do no more, the rattle and rasp of days before had become pneumonia. He had seemed to rally a few days ago but now he was in Cheyne-Stokes, the doctors were summoned along with the Archbishop of Vienna, Cardinal Fredrich Gustav Piffl, who had given the dying Emperor Extreme Unction. The Emperor’s heir Charles was present, his face a mask of piety and sorrow, sentiments magnified by the daunting task that would soon befall him.
No, other way around. A bullet can generally only kill one or two people at maximum. Enthusiastic young officers can get entire units killed.
This is where the sergeant needs to point out to Edward that the sword will make him a target to the enemy.
More to the point, it will make those around him a target for the enemy. That's why Prince Harry never deployed to Iraq, and why he subject to a medial blackout in Afghanistan then withdrawn as soon as it leaked. He's unlikely to listen to advice that he's in danger, but hopefully will to advice that he's putting his men in danger.
Not necessarily. The sword will not label him as "royal" but as "officer", as would, though perhaps less obviously, a revolver. A rifle would label him as "soldier". If anything, giving the enemy an obvious high value local target to fire at might give him men a slight, if brief respite.
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Half right, if they are going into urban combat then some non officers could be carrying a revolver, shotgun or some other item of what became known as trench stores instead of a rifle. Swords, for infantry, different for Cavalry as everyone had one, had already been shown to be a bullet magnet in South Africa and ordered there to be withdrawn to depot. It was therefore some form of utter madness/incompetence that allowed them to be carried by Infantry officers in the early days of WW1.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
The British Army hadn't yet lowered its standards enough to allow an officer to dress as an Other Rank. Statistically a subaltern was more likely to be killed than a ranker so the move made perfect sense, although probably causing aneurisms at Horse Guards.
Half right. Not all officers would be wearing swords, I grant you, in fact most would not have been, for the very cogent reasons you so correctly quote. However everyone seen to be carrying a sword would definitely be taken to be an officer though possibly a very silly one. Perhaps some soldiers would not shoot at an officer beariang a sword as would self evidently be an idiot and doing his side more harm than good., although I doubt it.