"What Madness Is This?" - A Timeline

And on one side by a Great Britain that really doesn't give a darn about its existence and knows that the other NAican countries will probably do nothing to help it if attacked. In fact, Madison and Jefferson would laugh their heads off at the north's misfortune.

Okay, guys, I could use some help here. I want to make the Napoleonic Wars a tie in the end using the current situation going forward. Any ideas? Napoleon I or his successor must be on the throne of France by the end of it, but it can't be an Uber France. I want I draw, where Britain and France finally give up.

Any ideas?
 
The main problem with such an outcome is that it goes against the characters of the main players: Napoleon always ignored the chances he had to stop and the crowned heads of Europe would have never tolerated the "Ogre" to live the rest of his days fat and happy with an Imperial crown on his head, always ready to start everything again at his whim.

A possible solution I could propose is reading Lycaon Pictus's The Dead Skunk TL, which has the Napoleonic Wars ending with Bonaparte Sr. dead, Wellington prisoner of war, Nappy Jr. on the throne but with a powerful and wise Regency Council leading France, who has managed to annex Belgium, Savoy and a strip of German land from Alsace to Mainz during a much-prolonged Hundred Days. So in the end the Bonapartes are still the official rulers, France is larger, the other European powers are in part satisfied after their sworn enemy's death and in part too busy quelling nationalist uprisings to spill other blood. Not a bad deal, and almost what you were looking for.

In the end, the best way IMHO to get a surviving Napoleonic France in Europe is by removing its founder from the equation while the nation is in a position of strength, so that the government can keep the Bourbons away and can't be forced by the ancien regime powers to make too many concessions.
 
The main problem with such an outcome is that it goes against the characters of the main players: Napoleon always ignored the chances he had to stop and the crowned heads of Europe would have never tolerated the "Ogre" to live the rest of his days fat and happy with an Imperial crown on his head, always ready to start everything again at his whim.

A possible solution I could propose is reading Lycaon Pictus's The Dead Skunk TL, which has the Napoleonic Wars ending with Bonaparte Sr. dead, Wellington prisoner of war, Nappy Jr. on the throne but with a powerful and wise Regency Council leading France, who has managed to annex Belgium, Savoy and a strip of German land from Alsace to Mainz during a much-prolonged Hundred Days. So in the end the Bonapartes are still the official rulers, France is larger, the other European powers are in part satisfied after their sworn enemy's death and in part too busy quelling nationalist uprisings to spill other blood. Not a bad deal, and almost what you were looking for.

In the end, the best way IMHO to get a surviving Napoleonic France in Europe is by removing its founder from the equation while the nation is in a position of strength, so that the government can keep the Bourbons away and can't be forced by the ancien regime powers to make too many concessions.

One thing I'm going to do is make George IV stark raving mad. That should put a dent in British respect abroad.

I'm definitely going to check out this Dead Skunk TL. I see what you're getting at: have daddy win the empire, die/get killed and have sonny boy, likely a half-Austrian, take over and become a moderate Victorian ruler.

Thanks for the help! :D
 
One thing I'm going to do is make George IV stark raving mad. That should put a dent in British respect abroad.

I'm definitely going to check out this Dead Skunk TL. I see what you're getting at: have daddy win the empire, die/get killed and have sonny boy, likely a half-Austrian, take over and become a moderate Victorian ruler.

Thanks for the help! :D

Since we're talking about a post-revolutionary National Legislative Assembly (choke-full of politicians who took part in everything from the time of Robespierre to the end of the war) holding all real power, "moderate Victorian" isn't the best way to describe The Dead Skunk's French government.:p:D Let's just say that it won't be as easy to paint this new France as the scary boogeyman of Europe since it won't be keen to export their Revolution (for now...), but won't disdain political experiments that are deemed to radical (or subversive) everywhere else.

George IV like George III? I love when someone creates new family traditions!:cool:
 
Since we're talking about a post-revolutionary National Legislative Assembly (choke-full of politicians who took part in everything from the time of Robespierre to the end of the war) holding all real power, "moderate Victorian" isn't the best way to describe The Dead Skunk's French government.:p:D Let's just say that it won't be as easy to paint this new France as the scary boogeyman of Europe since it won't be keen to export their Revolution (for now...), but won't disdain political experiments that are deemed to radical (or subversive) everywhere else.

George IV like George III? I love when someone creates new family traditions!:cool:

Yikes, definitely not then. I want the emperor (César in this) to have a goodly amount of power, like the Austrian Kaiser, the King of Prussia, etc. I found Dead Skunk and am reviewing it now. :D

Oh, yeah, George IV in this is outright flipping out. Far worse than OTL George III. :eek: I might have several successive British monarchs be totally or partially insane to butterfly away some of Britain's power.
 
Yikes, definitely not then. I want the emperor (César in this) to have a goodly amount of power, like the Austrian Kaiser, the King of Prussia, etc. I found Dead Skunk and am reviewing it now. :D

You know, I still have to find a European nation where Child-Kings are allowed to actually rule. If Nappy II gets his father's crown before being of age someone has to take the reins of the country and in France's case my money is definitely not on the Austrian Empress Mother. And it's not like a NLA-filled Regency Council would abolish the monarchy or anything else, not when the nation survived thanks to the Bonapartes after the Directory almost had run her to the ground. Just consider that really great rulers were the ones who surrounded themselves with the smartest advisors, and there was no scarcity of sharp political minds in that period's France.
 
Gotta do something else, so I'll just post this bit I wrote up. :)

1803-1815

It was 1805, about four years after the United States had been ripped asunder. Things had changed. Spain, in its war with Britain, had invaded Canadian territory, distracting King George and making him unable to conquer the nascent Green Mountain Republic and giving Napoleon's France a loophole to go on an absolute rampage in Europe.

Napoleon had become the
César de la France, the Caesar of France, in 1804, restoring France to monarchy, and George III finally cracked shortly thereafter. George, overwhelmed with stress, collapsed in his palace, died, and was replaced with his son George IV. George IV was, unfortunately, completely and utterly bonkers. Not just crazy like his father, but absolutely stark raving mad. This was terrible for Britain's wartime morale and the overall leadership of the country. Britain's royal family became a joke internationally, with its own allies mocking it. The Bonaparte family, meanwhile, was doing just fine. Even Prussia came to respect Napoleon more than any Englishman, even if they hated his Corsican guts.


220px-GeorgeIV1792.jpg


"The Mad King George IV"


Napoleon constructed embassies in all the North American countries except West Florida and Vermont. Virginia and Maryland were quite friendly, but it was Georgia that fell in love with the French emperor. The tightening relationship between the two countries improved Georgia's relationship with Spain, since the Spanish were an ally of France. Georgia began to realize that joining Napoleon's alliance, if even unofficially, it could possibly become the dominate independent country in North America. Prime Minister Bulloch thought that sounded great. In the few years since the destruction of the US, the various new countries had started to disdain each other far more, and if he could stick it to "the Northern buzzards" (which now included the Confederation of the Carolinas and Virginia), then it would be an awesome day in his book. So, in 1806, Georgia began patterning itself after France. French uniforms, French music, French food, French everything. It was the beginning of a beautiful friendship that suited Georgia's right-wing militarists just fine.






 

Faeelin

Banned
I love how everyone thinks early americans were one step away from eating each other in the ruins of the Constitution.
 
The updates look good. I'll try and read them tonight.

Mad King Geogre IV? :eek: Didn't see that one coming! I must say though Napoleon, based on your timelines, you seem to be a fan of screwing the British Empire/Ottoman Empire and wanking the French. :p

I agree with vault boy, the "Kill the Bugger" line is just too awesome. :D

Here is new and final version of the info-box. I'll post the final version of the meme later. The errors were minor, but I take allot of pride in my work. :p :D.

Franco-American War Infobox.PNG
 
I love how everyone thinks early americans were one step away from eating each other in the ruins of the Constitution.

Ah, these aren't OTL Americans, though, my good Faeelin! Like I said in the beginning beginning, they never even have the Constitution. ITTL, Americans have a much greater regional pride.

The updates look good. I'll try and read them tonight.

Mad King Geogre IV? :eek: Didn't see that one coming! I must say though Napoleon, based on your timelines, you seem to be a fan of screwing the British Empire/Ottoman Empire and wanking the French. :p

I agree with vault boy, the "Kill the Bugger" line is just too awesome. :D

Here is new and final version of the info-box. I'll post the final version of the meme later. The errors were minor, but I take allot of pride in my work. :p :D.

There are waaay too many TL's where Britain gets everything, and it's boring. And heaven's no, France is not going to get anything great in the long run. Like I said awhile back, I intend ITTL for everyone involved to end up sorry things ever happened. :eek: No one is going to be the winner.

Looks awesome! Great work! I appreciate your effort. :D
 
A lot of new parts. Any comments or suggestions welcome. :)


1803-1815
b72f73894596.jpg

Louisiana Rebels lay down their weapons (1812)

Things had changed. Spain, in its war with Britain, had invaded Canadian territory, distracting King George and making him unable to conquer the nascent Green Mountain Republic and giving Napoleon's France a loophole to go on an absolute rampage in Europe.

Napoleon had become the
César de la France, the Caesar of France, in 1804, restoring France to monarchy, and George III finally cracked shortly thereafter. George, overwhelmed with stress, collapsed in his palace, died, and was replaced with his son George IV. George IV was, unfortunately, completely and utterly bonkers. Not just crazy like his father, but absolutely stark raving mad. This was terrible for Britain's wartime morale and the overall leadership of the country. Britain's royal family became a joke internationally, with its own allies mocking it. The Bonaparte family, meanwhile, was doing just fine. Even Prussia came to respect Napoleon more than they did any Englishman, even if they hated his Corsican guts.


220px-GeorgeIV1792.jpg


"The Mad King George IV"


Napoleon constructed embassies in all the North American countries except West Florida and Vermont. Virginia and Maryland were quite friendly, but it was Georgia that fell in love with the French emperor. The tightening relationship between the two countries improved Georgia's relationship with Spain, since the Spanish were an ally of France. Georgia began to realize that by joining Napoleon's alliance, if even unofficially, it could possibly become the dominate independent country in North America. Prime Minister Bulloch thought that sounded great. In the few years since the destruction of the US, the various new countries had started to disdain each other far more, and if he could stick it to "the Northern buzzards" (which now included the Confederation of the Carolinas and Virginia to a lesser extent), then it would be an awesome day in his book. So, in 1806, Georgia began patterning itself after France. French uniforms, French music, French food, French everything. It was the beginning of a beautiful friendship that suited Georgia's right-wing militarists just fine.

Meanwhile, in the Republican Union, a new form of government took power: the Consulate, which patterned itself somewhat after Napoleon's France (before he had been crowned Caesar, of course). Instead of just three consuls, like in France, however, there were two for each state(titled Consuls of the Republic), elected every four years There was no president, but two consuls each year were elected as Chief Consuls of the Republic. State or Territorial Consuls (one per state) fulfilled the role of governors. At the capital city, the Republican Consuls would meet and discuss national policy in fair and open debates, debates which often turned ugly or hostile.

A new constitution was being written as early as a week after the Treason Trials, but was not completed until 1805, following a grueling "convention" in Philadelphia that lasted three years. Democratic-Republicans insisted that freedom be guaranteed by the government and pushed for the abolition of slavery. The new party, the Centrist Party, largely made up of politicians from the smaller or less-populous states, demanded a strong government be created that did not base itself within the borders of any existing state. A new capital should be created. They also pushed for a large army to be raised to defend the country from Britain, Spain, and its southern neighbors.

The long-lasting hatred that the North would have for the South was not quite in full swing. The Southerners disdained the north and blamed the horrific failure of the United States on them. The North was more concerned in its own problems and was content for the moment to push their "hillbilly cousins" onto the back burner for now. Slavery was a rather touchy subject, though, and any suggestions by consuls for closer relationships with the Southern republics were usually shot down by fire-and-brimstone New England abolitionists (or those pretending abolitionists to score political points). Many present historians now claim that without slavery-or if the North had had many themselves-the USA might have recovered after the Treason Trials, but the increasingly foreign cultures developing between the former British colonies was largely unavoidable. Given a few decades at most, and the USA would have likely sank into civil war. The withdrawal of the South had come at just the right time to avoid entering that likely self-destructive conflict.

There were some Union citizens, though, that began thinking of the Southern republics as "rightful Union land." The captain of this philosophical ship was Aaron Burr, the middle-aged Consul of New York. He served with Willard Crawford as the first two Chief Consuls, and during that time made his revanchist feelings known. While military force was not taken seriously at this point to force the Southerners back under the North's wing, Burr's way of thinking set the stage for further problems.

245px-Vanderlyn_Burr.jpg

Aaron Burr

List of Consuls of the Republic (1801-1805):


  • Willard Crawford - New Hampshire
  • William Whipple - New Hampshire
  • Aaron Burr - New York
  • George Clinton - New York
  • George Clymer - Pennsylvania
  • William Jackson - Pennsylvania
  • Joseph Bloomfield - New Jersey
  • William Livingstone - New Jersey
  • Gunning Bedford, Jr. - Delaware
  • Richard Basset - Delaware
  • John Samuel Peters - Connecticut
  • Oliver Wolcott, Jr. - Connecticut
  • James Fenner - Rhode Island
  • Nehemiah Knight - Rhode Island

 
Consul? Thank God that Jackson's not in this America, or he'll become King... :p

BTW, who's Willard Crawford?

Lol, I was waiting for someone to crack that joke. :D

Crawford ITTL led the anti-government forces during the Downfall. IRL he's a fictional character I'm grooming up a backstory for. :cool:
 
Lol, I was waiting for someone to crack that joke. :D

Crawford ITTL led the anti-government forces during the Downfall. IRL he's a fictional character I'm grooming up a backstory for. :cool:
So, who's going to be the OTHER American King? Willard Crawford himself?

BTW, who does he look like? William H. Crawford?
 
Hello. I'm currently typing up a little essay comparing this with another timeline "Gold Democrats and Silver Populists", and when I'm done, I'll post a link.

EDIT: Here. Its still partly-finished... Link.
 
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Nice updates. :cool: Of course, Napoleon did mentioned all parties would be screwed, so in the long run, things aren't gonna be pretty for France. ;) Also, about Aaron Burr's revanchism causing future problems; I have a feeling the Republican Union will fall apart in the future as a result of this.

Some questions, why was nothing written about the Republican Union of America in the "United States Shatters" chapter? Also, whats going on with the Louisiana Rebels? Also, how is Spain able to invade Canada? Through Louisiana I imagine, but still the battles would probably be skirmishes at the worst.

Also, another Wikibox! :D If there's any errors let me know.

USA..PNG
 
So, who's going to be the OTHER American King? Willard Crawford himself?

BTW, who does he look like? William H. Crawford?

Haha, no kind ITTL, at least not at this point. If there is going to be a monarch of any country, it'll be a joke, where he's so deluded and unimportant no one cares.

I do need to find a suitable picture. I'll get right on it!

Some questions, why was nothing written about the Republican Union of America in the "United States Shatters" chapter? Also, whats going on with the Louisiana Rebels? Also, how is Spain able to invade Canada? Through Louisiana I imagine, but still the battles would probably be skirmishes at the worst.

Also, another Wikibox! :D If there's any errors let me know.

'Cause during that point nothing I wrote would be interesting; they're mopping up after the executions and such. Plus, I'm trying to make this TL faster-moving than American King. :D

The last chapter isn't complete, and Louisiana hasn't been brought up yet. ;)

Yep, just skirmishes and the like, but Britain thinks it more important to defeat them than go on a meaningless expedition to pound nascent Vermont and such.

You misspelled Congress once, but it looks bloody fantastic! However you're making those Wiki-sized flags is a much better technique than I have used.
 
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