the moorish quasi-vassal (they could remain technically at war) statelet could be used as a loophole to trade with the muslims, deal with barbary pirates and a diplomatic back channel without necessarily incurring cristian wrath - a cunning spanish king can recognise its value and keep its legally murky status for just that reason. hong kong comes to mind.
the moorish quasi-vassal (they could remain technically at war) statelet could be used as a loophole to trade with the muslims, deal with barbary pirates and a diplomatic back channel without necessarily incurring cristian wrath - a cunning spanish king can recognise its value and keep its legally murky status for just that reason. hong kong comes to mind.
More or less what I had in mind. At the same time, though, this does alienate the Castillians/Spanish from the Aragonese, who given similar historical trends will be the primary rivals for commercial dominance in the Med with the OE and Milan, as it gives more weight to their rivals. This doesn't preclude the Aragonese from joining whatever *Spanish state results, but it would probably be on less friendly terms for the Aragonese. I would think Castillian-Portuguese allegiance will be the primary realignment that results ITTL.
The ironic result might be the Conversos publicly being forced to adhere to Christianity, but privately encouraging or ignoring their ties to Islam and Muslims in Grenada as a way to profit from the OE.
Deleted member 67076
Thank you!!
Interestingly enough, you have many cases of pragmatic tolerance triumphing over zealotry in this period.ROME RISES AGAIN!
it may not be byzantium, but at least it's a bit more tolerant than most other nations at the time. a bit. it is still the period of zeal and piety.
Ian Almond talks about that in the great book, Two Faiths, One Banner.
Anyways, I've been trying to update soon and finish this timeline, but currently I'm suffering from a massive case of writer's block. :/
Rather late comment, but....
IIRC, the Western Schism was bitter enough that some rulers outside of the Ottoman sphere would consider sticking with their pope over a French puppet... if they do not nominate their own.
Minor nitpick. Anything resembling OTL's Ottomans will keep a (halfway compliant) prelate on the throne of St. Peter... and lean on both Venice and Milan to acknowledge same.
IIRC, the Western Schism was bitter enough that some rulers outside of the Ottoman sphere would consider sticking with their pope over a French puppet... if they do not nominate their own.
Deleted member 67076
Thanks for pointing that out. I'll retcon it to causing more schisms into Christian Europe.
------
The ascension of Orhan was a relatively simple affair, with little pomp and parades. Instead, the new Kayser was eager to for glory, to earn his own place among the greats. Orhan, although nearing 40 at his ascension, was an energetic ruler wanted to make drastic changes to the world. Going along with his father’s motif of Roman Emperors, Orhan presented himself as the new Justinian. He would be the restore of Imperial integratory, retaking wayward lands the were lost to the Romans centuries ago.
His first action was to look east. Orhan knew that further expansion west was not desirable. That would mean antagonizing his allies, or involving himself in far off realms he could not adequately supply. A military man first and foremost, the Kayser knew fully well the importance of logistics and the trap of imperial overreach. Instead, he focused on weaker realms that were more easy to digest.
Less than 3 months of his ascension, he had found his perfect target: The Mamluk sultanate of Cairo. Battered from the Timurid invasion, and subsequent attacks from the Jalayirids and its own internal conflicts, it was left a hollow shell of its former self and just ripe for taking. Now, while the Aq Qoyunlu Tribes would in theory be easier to eliminate, Egypt was just much more tempting of a prize. It was rich, populated and gave access to the Red Sea and thus access to the trade routes of India, something that would drastically please many his Italians subjects, who had been craving the riches of the east.
And so, he set off. Now Syria had been captured by the Jayalrids, who’d been under a resurgence after the battering of the Black Sheep Turkmen to the north. Syria, even its discrepant state, was still rather wealthy, and thus sultanate ensured its garrison was well stocked and staffed with competent men. But a couple thousand horsemen and conscripted levies against the largest and most professionally trained army east of China isn’t a fight.
Its a slaughter.
Syria was overrun in a matter of weeks, its cities falling like dominoes. They Jaylarids attempted to counter attack, but were easily driven out and pushed into Mesopotamia, with their army decimated in pitched battle on the outskirts of Mosul. When news of this loss spread, their neighbors attempted to take advantage, and the Jaylarids were faced with multi sided invasion from the various other Post Mongol states. Peace was made with the Ottomans, who simply decided to take everything east of the Euphrates and continue forward.
In Cairo, the Mamluks knew what was coming, and did all they could to prepare for the inevitable. They knew they were weak, but they also knew of Egypt's natural defenses. And so they fortified what they could and prepared for the inevitable. But still, they knew what was coming.
The year after, Orhan struck. His host striking deep into the fold, with a naval assault on Alexandria and a march right through the Sinai and into Cairo. Like his father, Orhan had a knack for attacking with superior firepower. And like his predecessor, it was a successful policy that had not failed him yet. The Mamluks, already battered from the mauling Timur gave them, civil wars and the succession of the Hedjaz, were overwhelmed by the Ottoman forces.
Orhan indeed finished what Timur started. The ailing Mamluk sultanate was broken and dissolved.
Deleted member 67076
Gracias!
Thank you!What he said.
Good luck.Basiliea Rhomaion shall have her revenge(in my EU4 game
SOON....
Legions? Maybe, probably not. As a bit of propaganda, I could see infantry units (maybe based off Swiss Pikemen) called "Legions", but the old school doctrine of the legions won't be copied directly. That'd be rather implausible.
I'm a bit leaning towards no with regards to the senate. The office and title seems to have vanished after 1350, and while the Ottomans are likely to be familiar with the title, at best they'd regard it at just a symbol of nobility, not necessarily an institution. However, Renaissance Italy was very Romanophilic, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was a petition or two to design a new senate building and give out the title. It really depends on the Romanization/Italianization of the Ottoman dynasty and government.
SPQR is almost entirely out of the question. That title brings back thoughts of a republic, which there is little reason for the Ottomans to promote that, lets that cause rebellions. Also, it promotes the senate as an institution with power, which is a direct threat to the absolute power of the Kayser-Caliph.
Deleted member 67076
Arcvalons: Re-Reconquista is out of the picture. Spain and Portugal are too strong and the area is mostly Christian up to Cordoba. At most, Grenada might be expanded, but that's it. And attacking Provence is just opening up to French intervention, so its not really a smart idea.
Danowest: That's a pretty interesting idea. I think it could happen.
I hate writer's block. Ugh, at this rate I'll never finish.
----------
With the end of the Mamluks and the acquisition of Egypt, we to the world at hand. While Orhan begins the grueling task of integrating his vast new domains into the Ottoman system and centralizing Egypt, the world was continued its vast flux. To the north, in the vast patchwork of states known as the Holy Roman Empire, war lingered as its states attempted to expand their dominion. In Austria, the Habsburg dynasty continued to ever so gradually expand its domains south and west.
To the west, France finally ended the long, century-long struggle with its northern neighbor with a resounding victory over the English forces. Out of this France emerged far different nation than when it had entered. Decades of war have changed nearly every single facet of life in the nation. The feudal armies that have so characterized warfare for centuries have made way to the establishment of a standing army by professional troops. The powerful French aristocracy have finally bent the knee to the king, who is quickly embracing his new-found power. Constant war has given way to magnificent advances in weaponry and a shift in battlefield doctrine. No longer were heavy cavalry seen as the most important facet in conventional warfare.[1] But perhaps the most important change was one that could not be seen. The French spirit had been awakened, leading to the birth of the modern French identity and a sort of proto-nationalism amongst the land of Gaul. Nonetheless, despite all that had occurred, France ended the war tired.Its population had been ravaged by plague, battle, financial ruin, a depressed economy and just plain exhaustion on all fronts. Regardless of all the victories and progress that had been made, the nation needed time to rest and repair, to recuperate and replenish. And so peace returned to the land.
Further west the changes in the Iberian peninsula were more subtle but no less important. Portugal had rounded the coast of Africa and had discovered a new route to India. With this, they have found a means to transport the spices of Asia to European markets without resorting to Muslim middlemen, cutting them out from the transaction and increasing the Portuguese profits.
Although both the profit and product moved was a tad miniscule compared to the investment, it is a worrying prospects for many in the Ottoman Empire as time went on as the Portuguese are able to transport the spice more efficiently through use of African outposts and colonies from Angola to the Cape to the Swahili coast. In the early 1500s, the Venetians were growing so desperate that they began to lobby to the Kayser to rebuild the Pharaohs canal in order to keep up with the competition.
At the same time, the Holy Roman “Empire” once again resumed war as factions continued to vie for power and influence. It is most interesting that the major victor in all this was the unlikely candidate Switzerland. This small, Alpine confederacy, initially created as a mutual defense pact was on an expansion streak, pushing its borders throughout all sides and making major gains in the south of the Holy Roman Empire. [2] With its trademark infantry maneuvers and anti-cavalry specialty, the Swiss carved as swath through the south of Germany. But they also did something particularly noteworthy. They caught the eye of the Kayser. When Orhan finished up in Egypt after thoroughly, er, integrating the province, he returned to Italy by matters of the Swiss. Apparently, his Milanese vassals (in his eyes) had called for aid. The Swiss had stopped expanding north, and in a fit of victory disease, had attempted to push their boundaries south into Italy. Their forces managed to decisively defeat the Milanese, despite all odds, and were in the midst of marching straight into the city.
And so, Organ set sail for Italy, landing in Venice and hoping to intercept the Swiss before they arrive, and maybe even increasing his ring of vassals. While the next string of battles eventually ended in Ottoman Victory, it was a pyrrhic one to say the least. Swiss forces managed to decimate the Ottoman troops through excellent use of the terrain and infantry. The battle near Milan would see the first check to Ottoman expansion in nearly 100 years. The Swiss infantry had defeated both the Ottoman Heavy Cavalry and a squadron of Janissaries. This shocked Orhan to the core, and he gave up any pretext of outright conquest. A man of good instincts, he knew when to fold ‘em, and made peace with the Swiss, paying an indemnity in exchange for alliance and friendship. While many initially questioned the wisdom of such a thing, what with it showing that the Ottomans were NOT unbeatable, leading to renewed raids from both the Aragonese, Hungarians and even the Barbary states of North Africa, it had for all intents and purposes further secured the Ottoman border into the more defensible Alps, and granted them access to a deadly new weapon: Swiss Mercenaries.
Like the Varangian guard before them, the contingent of Swiss troops would serve as an elite unit in the Ottoman Army, although not always trusted with protecting the emperor’s life. In addition, they would be often settled in mountain passes; especially in the frontier regions of the state. A few decades from the end of the Ottoman-Swiss war, it would not be entirely uncommon to see a Swiss German guarding a pass in Armenia,[3] or serving in a fort in the Caucasus to guard against nomadic incursions. These mercenaries would be well paid, and in time fiercely loyal to the Ottomans state. (probably because they pay the most and when you’re stationed in some far off place that you know absolutely nothing unlike in Europe rebellion might not be the smartest idea.)
[1] For like 10 years because then we see a rebirth of heavy cavalry that dominated until around the 1520s IIRC.
[2] Before the mid 1500s IIRC, the Swiss were actually an expansionist power. Now, seeing as I utterly detest the cliche of small neutral Switzerland, I’m going to do everything in my power to end any possibility of that.
[3] And of course a few might decide to stay in Armenia and the Middle East, eventually marrying into and forming their own little communities, with all the cultural mixing you’d expect.
Danowest: That's a pretty interesting idea. I think it could happen.
I hate writer's block. Ugh, at this rate I'll never finish.
----------
With the end of the Mamluks and the acquisition of Egypt, we to the world at hand. While Orhan begins the grueling task of integrating his vast new domains into the Ottoman system and centralizing Egypt, the world was continued its vast flux. To the north, in the vast patchwork of states known as the Holy Roman Empire, war lingered as its states attempted to expand their dominion. In Austria, the Habsburg dynasty continued to ever so gradually expand its domains south and west.
To the west, France finally ended the long, century-long struggle with its northern neighbor with a resounding victory over the English forces. Out of this France emerged far different nation than when it had entered. Decades of war have changed nearly every single facet of life in the nation. The feudal armies that have so characterized warfare for centuries have made way to the establishment of a standing army by professional troops. The powerful French aristocracy have finally bent the knee to the king, who is quickly embracing his new-found power. Constant war has given way to magnificent advances in weaponry and a shift in battlefield doctrine. No longer were heavy cavalry seen as the most important facet in conventional warfare.[1] But perhaps the most important change was one that could not be seen. The French spirit had been awakened, leading to the birth of the modern French identity and a sort of proto-nationalism amongst the land of Gaul. Nonetheless, despite all that had occurred, France ended the war tired.Its population had been ravaged by plague, battle, financial ruin, a depressed economy and just plain exhaustion on all fronts. Regardless of all the victories and progress that had been made, the nation needed time to rest and repair, to recuperate and replenish. And so peace returned to the land.
Further west the changes in the Iberian peninsula were more subtle but no less important. Portugal had rounded the coast of Africa and had discovered a new route to India. With this, they have found a means to transport the spices of Asia to European markets without resorting to Muslim middlemen, cutting them out from the transaction and increasing the Portuguese profits.
Although both the profit and product moved was a tad miniscule compared to the investment, it is a worrying prospects for many in the Ottoman Empire as time went on as the Portuguese are able to transport the spice more efficiently through use of African outposts and colonies from Angola to the Cape to the Swahili coast. In the early 1500s, the Venetians were growing so desperate that they began to lobby to the Kayser to rebuild the Pharaohs canal in order to keep up with the competition.
At the same time, the Holy Roman “Empire” once again resumed war as factions continued to vie for power and influence. It is most interesting that the major victor in all this was the unlikely candidate Switzerland. This small, Alpine confederacy, initially created as a mutual defense pact was on an expansion streak, pushing its borders throughout all sides and making major gains in the south of the Holy Roman Empire. [2] With its trademark infantry maneuvers and anti-cavalry specialty, the Swiss carved as swath through the south of Germany. But they also did something particularly noteworthy. They caught the eye of the Kayser. When Orhan finished up in Egypt after thoroughly, er, integrating the province, he returned to Italy by matters of the Swiss. Apparently, his Milanese vassals (in his eyes) had called for aid. The Swiss had stopped expanding north, and in a fit of victory disease, had attempted to push their boundaries south into Italy. Their forces managed to decisively defeat the Milanese, despite all odds, and were in the midst of marching straight into the city.
And so, Organ set sail for Italy, landing in Venice and hoping to intercept the Swiss before they arrive, and maybe even increasing his ring of vassals. While the next string of battles eventually ended in Ottoman Victory, it was a pyrrhic one to say the least. Swiss forces managed to decimate the Ottoman troops through excellent use of the terrain and infantry. The battle near Milan would see the first check to Ottoman expansion in nearly 100 years. The Swiss infantry had defeated both the Ottoman Heavy Cavalry and a squadron of Janissaries. This shocked Orhan to the core, and he gave up any pretext of outright conquest. A man of good instincts, he knew when to fold ‘em, and made peace with the Swiss, paying an indemnity in exchange for alliance and friendship. While many initially questioned the wisdom of such a thing, what with it showing that the Ottomans were NOT unbeatable, leading to renewed raids from both the Aragonese, Hungarians and even the Barbary states of North Africa, it had for all intents and purposes further secured the Ottoman border into the more defensible Alps, and granted them access to a deadly new weapon: Swiss Mercenaries.
Like the Varangian guard before them, the contingent of Swiss troops would serve as an elite unit in the Ottoman Army, although not always trusted with protecting the emperor’s life. In addition, they would be often settled in mountain passes; especially in the frontier regions of the state. A few decades from the end of the Ottoman-Swiss war, it would not be entirely uncommon to see a Swiss German guarding a pass in Armenia,[3] or serving in a fort in the Caucasus to guard against nomadic incursions. These mercenaries would be well paid, and in time fiercely loyal to the Ottomans state. (probably because they pay the most and when you’re stationed in some far off place that you know absolutely nothing unlike in Europe rebellion might not be the smartest idea.)
[1] For like 10 years because then we see a rebirth of heavy cavalry that dominated until around the 1520s IIRC.
[2] Before the mid 1500s IIRC, the Swiss were actually an expansionist power. Now, seeing as I utterly detest the cliche of small neutral Switzerland, I’m going to do everything in my power to end any possibility of that.
[3] And of course a few might decide to stay in Armenia and the Middle East, eventually marrying into and forming their own little communities, with all the cultural mixing you’d expect.
So Switzerland is to the Ottomans like Nepal was to British India ITTL. Interesting.
I don't think that's an accurate analogy actually. Unless I'm misreading something, it looks like the Ottomans have done nothing to interfere with the fact that the Swiss are still nominally part of the HRE. They're a valuable intermediary within the HRE and more importantly make a great bulwark against potential problems coming from north of the Alps, meanwhile the relatively poor mercenary-exporting regions would be thrilled to send some men off to gain riches from the Ottomans, and a noticeable amount will find it easier to just take permanent employment and settle in different areas of the Empire. They're not a "martial race" or princely state of the Ottoman Empire, like the Ghurkas to the Raj, but a natural ally for imperial policy. I'd say Anglo-Japanese relations would be a better analogy (to an extent).