The War of Mexican Intervention? (~1995)

Some Quick Ideas....

Blochead said:
Yeah, I thought about the Clinton date, my bad. But there's no electoral college snafu. I kind of blended the 2000 and 2001 events. Can't edit it now though... I'll post a revised TL tomorrow.

Bush basically trades Florida for New Mexico & California, but in the ATL he takes much more involvement in the 'nativist' cause as governor of Texas than previously. He lowers immigration rates severely through National Guard & Minutemen style deployments... And his promise of 'withdrawing US Troops from Mexico' would be in contrast to Davis. Remember the LA attacks... Davis may the US using any means necessary to track down the culpripts. Just as GW might be maligned for advocating US isolationism, a 'curl up and wait' policy in CA might hurt Davis' campaign.


Mexican elections are as scheduled, since due to my absent minded blend of 2000 and 2001 the attack should not have occured till April of 2001.

-Actually the problem is that Governor Pete Wilson (R-CA) was elected in 1994 until 1998. Consider that he will certainly be using the Los Angeles attacks in 1996 as a sign of how the Clinton administration is "ill-equipped" to deal with the issue of immigration.

-Some other issues include the rise of the right-wing militias, especially in light of the Minutement militias:

-1/30/1994-A California official who angered Patriot "common-law" adherents by refusing to vacate an IRS lien is beaten, stabbed and sodomized with a gun. The attack exemplifies the growing violence of common-law adherents.

-9/19/1994-Self-appointed militia "general" Linda Thompson calls for an armed march on Washington, D.C., prompting other Patriots to renounce her as foolhardy and suicidal.

-8/24/1996-More than 500 supporters attend a major meeting of the separatist Republic of Texas' "Provisional Government General Council."

-4/18/1997- A Patriot group files a notice with Maricopa County officials declaring a new "Country of Arizona," separate from the United States, and supposedly recognized by the United Nations as "Indigenous Nation No. 215."

-5/3/1997-A six-day standoff between police and Republic of Texas common-law separatists ends. One man is killed in a gun battle with police.

-3/8/1998-A Texas man with reported separatist views like those of the Republic of Texas, claiming to be armed and carrying explosives, attempts to take over a Veterans Affairs office in Waco. Jason Leigh eventually surrenders.

-5/2000-Texas Constitutional Militia member John Joe Gray holes up with heavily armed family members, refusing to face charges of assaulting two highway patrolmen. Actor Chuck Norris, a Gray hero, fails to broker a settlement. You can certainly see Governor George W. Bush in the negotiations in the ATL....

-2/28/2001-Separatist Republic of Texas members join an anti-immigration group, Ranch Rescue, in trying to halt illegal aliens from entering the country.
This is certainly another event that would be important to President George W. Bush...
 

CalBear

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Blochead said:
Yeah, I thought about the Clinton date, my bad. But there's no electoral college snafu. I kind of blended the 2000 and 2001 events. Can't edit it now though... I'll post a revised TL tomorrow.

Bush basically trades Florida for New Mexico & California, but in the ATL he takes much more involvement in the 'nativist' cause as governor of Texas than previously. He lowers immigration rates severely through National Guard & Minutemen style deployments... And his promise of 'withdrawing US Troops from Mexico' would be in contrast to Davis. Remember the LA attacks... Davis may the US using any means necessary to track down the culpripts. Just as GW might be maligned for advocating US isolationism, a 'curl up and wait' policy in CA might hurt Davis' campaign.


Mexican elections are as scheduled, since due to my absent minded blend of 2000 and 2001 the attack should not have occured till April of 2001.

Su-27's & SU 39's? It is extremely unlikely that the U.S would gently allow the introduction of such aircraft. I would point out that Chavez is alive today solely because the U.S. failed to support a coup against him. Introduce offensive weapons like this and Chavez would likely have long since met his maker.

Even without that being a consideration, how does Chavez manage to unload armor? The first sniff of this and things will get quite exciting on those freighters, what with all the Harpoons and Walleyes going off. Venezuela's freshly bought air force is just as quickly going to become very expensive aluminium scrap waiting to become soda cans. Any forces that manage to get to the beach learn just as quickly that the Iraqi troops were right; the United States DOES make the sky rain steel. God alone will be able to save them; and He had better be having a good day.

I have pointed this out in a different thread: Venezuela is within the UNREFUELED combat radius of virtually every strategic, strike, and air superiority aircraft in the USAF & USN inventory. That means you get multiple strikes a day,by aircraft carrying maximum ordnance loads, piloted byfresh crews, who literally go home at the end of the day for supper with the family. Four, perhaps five, days into this little adventure every worthwhile target in Venezuela is ruined, as are the hopes for a prosperous, successfull, future for Chavez and his supporters.

Isolationism is one thing, this is very much something else. Even at the height of U.S. isolationist beliefs, Latin America was the exception.This isn't happening half a world away, this is in the front yard. Some fool starts a fire in your front yard you put it out. Then you either call the cops or you kick the snot out of them, maybe both.

Venezuela may want to purchase more arms from Russia, but how does it get there. Not by ship.The old USSR fleet wasn't a decent match for the U.S. Navy 150 miles from the Kola Peninsula, that was BEFORE half of the fleet sank at anchor from lack of basic servicing (and that assumes that Russia was willing to attempt to fight the UNITED STATES on it's porch.) . Not by plane. Not by prayer. Venezuela is about to be as cut-off as it is possible for a nation state to become.

There may be a way to get a communist or extreme socialist state in Latin America (although given the success that the system has have over the last century it seems doubtful). Do it by the sword? Move your wife & kids to Switzerland, give them the numbers to the bank accounts, make sure the life insurance is paid up, and make peace with your maker. Time to die.

This isn't all bad. It will be a lot easier for Unocal, Exxon, & Chevron/Standard (all of whom are great supporters of GW Bush & Dick Cheney, what with them being Texas oil folks & all) to take over, excuse me, "watch over until things calm down" the Venezuelan off shore oil platforms with the entire Venezeulan military has been destroyed in an insane adventure so far from home & so close to the United States.

This short term reality more or less renders moot the later posited combat successes of the invading forces.

Blochead said:
With Venezuelan forces moving ever forward

These forces would be dead men spoiling quickly in the Mexican Sun.

I tend to have a preference for looking at the purely military parts of timelines, as that is where much of my interest lies; however I would be remiss not make a couple of other points:

Would the butterflies resulting from the 1995 - 1999 actions in this TL not have swept GW Bush from his position as accaimed GOP nominee? Bush was selected as much due to the GOP's desire to recapture the White House as any other factor. In a war time enviroment the accusations regarding his military service, regardless of their validity, would have been greatly magnified in the primary process, especially running against a "true American War Hero" such as McCain.

You may also be underestimating the level of anger the American people are capable of, particularly when something frightens them. The most recent historical figure to do this is OBL, to his sorrow.

Hopefully you may find some of this of use.

Best of luck with your TL
 
I don't see it being Bush...

While I can easily see the Republicans going for a retrenchist policy, I just don't see George W. Bush being the front man for it, despite the irony value. The Bush family is heavily connected to the oil industry, and the oilmen would want the socialist rebels in Mexico dead, dead, dead. (They wouldn't be especially averse to overthrowing Chavez, either.) Furthermore, Bush doesn't seem to be terribly nativist on immigration, at least from across the border -- you'll recall he's taken some heat on the matter from the nativist wing of his party OTL. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Some other possibilites could be Pete Wilson of California, though you had him call for the invasion of Cuba, so it may be difficult for him to run as non-intervention candidate, or Senator John Kyl of Arizona, who seems to be pretty nativist. (He'd only have 6 years of experience in 2000, but then so did W.)

Otherwise good stuff, though I too have to wonder how the heck Venezuela snuck in so many troops by sea. (And it'd have to be by sea -- the Central American isthmus is a land bridge pretty much in name only.)
 
Actually...

Fleetlord Hart- Actually, the point of Pete Wilson (R-CA) supporting the overthrow of the government of Cuba might be seen as a centrist move, and would certainly garner a lot of votes from Florida Republicans. It would show he is certainly concerned with American border security, but is opposed to actions against the national interest. It would certainly help him in a presidential bid...

Calbear_ Something that came to mind. If anything, wouldn't the Russians use this opportunity to deal with the Chechnyans in an even more brutal crackdown. As for China, they would use the period to brutally crackdown on Muslim rebels in Xinjiang, Buddhist followers of the Dalai Lama, and the an equal religious crackdown on the Falun Gong. Alll of this would be used to support the effort to "secure their domestic security..."

-Something to add, in 2000, Jack Foote and Casey Nethercott, the right-wing militia leaders of the now largely defunct anti-immigrant group Ranch Rescue, launched "Operation Raven," their first paramilitary exercise in the county. It mostly involved dressing up in khaki fatigues and toting weapons on ranches around Douglas. Operations Owl, Hawk, and Thunderbird followed. (Participants received merit-badge-like "mission patches" as souvenirs.)....
 
Mr_ Bondoc said:
-Something to add, in 2000, Jack Foote and Casey Nethercott, the right-wing militia leaders of the now largely defunct anti-immigrant group Ranch Rescue, launched "Operation Raven," their first paramilitary exercise in the county. It mostly involved dressing up in khaki fatigues and toting weapons on ranches around Douglas. Operations Owl, Hawk, and Thunderbird followed. (Participants received merit-badge-like "mission patches" as souvenirs.)....

I always felt that militias could create troubles... Imagine if the radical ones where given a secret 'a-ok'....
 
But Consider This...

The Ubbergeek said:
I always felt that militias could create troubles... Imagine if the radical ones where given a secret 'a-ok'....

But consider the even bigger media outcry and public outrage if the public found out that the government allowed the activities of right-wing militias, especially considering many of them are white supremacist!!

Also consider a major poltical fight in California, considering the Speaker of the Assembly (1994-1998), Cruz M. Bustamante (D-CA) is Mexican-American from Fresno, CA. If anything this could make things ugly. Another problem could come from Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (D-TX) Henry Cisneros, who is another very public Mexican-American figure. Both would certainly be pivotal figures in any public debate in regards to the Democratic Party....
 
CalBear said:
Su-27's & SU 39's? It is extremely unlikely that the U.S would gently allow the introduction of such aircraft. I would point out that Chavez is alive today solely because the U.S. failed to support a coup against him. Introduce offensive weapons like this and Chavez would likely have long since met his maker.

Even without that being a consideration, how does Chavez manage to unload armor? The first sniff of this and things will get quite exciting on those freighters, what with all the Harpoons and Walleyes going off. Venezuela's freshly bought air force is just as quickly going to become very expensive aluminium scrap waiting to become soda cans. Any forces that manage to get to the beach learn just as quickly that the Iraqi troops were right; the United States DOES make the sky rain steel. God alone will be able to save them; and He had better be having a good day.

I have pointed this out in a different thread: Venezuela is within the UNREFUELED combat radius of virtually every strategic, strike, and air superiority aircraft in the USAF & USN inventory. That means you get multiple strikes a day,by aircraft carrying maximum ordnance loads, piloted byfresh crews, who literally go home at the end of the day for supper with the family. Four, perhaps five, days into this little adventure every worthwhile target in Venezuela is ruined, as are the hopes for a prosperous, successfull, future for Chavez and his supporters.

Isolationism is one thing, this is very much something else. Even at the height of U.S. isolationist beliefs, Latin America was the exception.This isn't happening half a world away, this is in the front yard. Some fool starts a fire in your front yard you put it out. Then you either call the cops or you kick the snot out of them, maybe both.

Venezuela may want to purchase more arms from Russia, but how does it get there. Not by ship.The old USSR fleet wasn't a decent match for the U.S. Navy 150 miles from the Kola Peninsula, that was BEFORE half of the fleet sank at anchor from lack of basic servicing (and that assumes that Russia was willing to attempt to fight the UNITED STATES on it's porch.) . Not by plane. Not by prayer. Venezuela is about to be as cut-off as it is possible for a nation state to become.

There may be a way to get a communist or extreme socialist state in Latin America (although given the success that the system has have over the last century it seems doubtful). Do it by the sword? Move your wife & kids to Switzerland, give them the numbers to the bank accounts, make sure the life insurance is paid up, and make peace with your maker. Time to die.

This isn't all bad. It will be a lot easier for Unocal, Exxon, & Chevron/Standard (all of whom are great supporters of GW Bush & Dick Cheney, what with them being Texas oil folks & all) to take over, excuse me, "watch over until things calm down" the Venezuelan off shore oil platforms with the entire Venezeulan military has been destroyed in an insane adventure so far from home & so close to the United States.

This short term reality more or less renders moot the later posited combat successes of the invading forces.



These forces would be dead men spoiling quickly in the Mexican Sun.

I tend to have a preference for looking at the purely military parts of timelines, as that is where much of my interest lies; however I would be remiss not make a couple of other points:

Would the butterflies resulting from the 1995 - 1999 actions in this TL not have swept GW Bush from his position as accaimed GOP nominee? Bush was selected as much due to the GOP's desire to recapture the White House as any other factor. In a war time enviroment the accusations regarding his military service, regardless of their validity, would have been greatly magnified in the primary process, especially running against a "true American War Hero" such as McCain.

You may also be underestimating the level of anger the American people are capable of, particularly when something frightens them. The most recent historical figure to do this is OBL, to his sorrow.

Hopefully you may find some of this of use.

Best of luck with your TL

Well, about your military comments: Venezuela can easily get away with buying weapons, as long as they aren't doing so with a US ally. America has pretty much let Russia sell to whoever they want, and I was planning to order a USN blockade after the invasion, when the Venezuelan air force would actually run out of spare parts (though most of their air force is cut to ribbons.). But at the time the US is not actively hostile with Venezuela... Venezuela really does not become interested in stopping this conflict (or the Venezuelan government) until 2000 when Chavez takes office. Revised TL with map coming sometime today.

I will revise some of the political events, most likely with McCain winning.
 
1994- EZLN command structure is located through bribery of the newspapers that publish them and some (possibly US assisted) bushwork. In January of 1994, a Mexican helicopter gunship in Chiapas strafes and kills Subcommander Marcos and about a dozen other EZLN fighters. Kill is confirmed by Mexican Army regulars.

EZLN, in outrage, begins more radical actions. Suspected contact with the FARC and possibly financial support out of the newly released Hugo Chavez and his MVR movement later in the year spurs military action.

1995- Violence intensifies in Chiapas. Mexican Army embarrassed when several soldiers defect and aid ambushes on Mexican Army troops. Clinton issues a condemnation of the Zapatistas. But the US does see some effect as the chicano movement is encouraged in the Southern United States. The US classifies the Zapatistas as a terrorist group after the Mexican government claims they have killed negotiators. Zapatistas deny the allegations and continue their insurgency.

The Zapatista movement spreads outside Chiapas and into major cities. Mexican Army incapacitated by violent and non-violent protest. Mexican Army declares martial law in all effected areas and promises to punish any media publishing EZLN declarations.

The turning point comes when Mexican oilfields are seized in a daring raid in December. Among them are several American consultants. US demands they be released while some protest that this group has nothing to do with the EZLN and is likely FARC attempting to instigate conflict. The raiders say they will release the hostages on the condition that US halt all trade effected by NAFTA and remain neutral.

Clinton, knowing the election is coming up, does what he hopes will encourage US voters. US Navy SEALS are sent in and free all hostages, except for a Mexican and American who were hit by a ricocheting slug of unknown origin and a Zapatista bullet, respectively. The US, outraged, makes a joint statement with the Mexican government that they will classify the Zapatistas as terrorists and sends over 3,000 US SPECFOR and soldiers into Mexico to assist Federal troops.

1996- US troops are deployed into Chiapas and the surrounding territories, using Mexican intelligence agents to pinpoint targets for precision strikes. Laser-Guided Bombs are dropped in the dozens during the initial days of the strike, while US Army Rangers hunt down Zapatistas in the brush. The US Army is very successful despite some warning that the jungles of Chiapas could become 'a new Vietnam'.

In retaliation, Zapatistas encourage Chicano groups to revive the brown berets. They cross the border and in three coordinated strikes, body-armored, assault rifle toting men seize a Bank and shopping mall in the Los Angeles area. The LAPD's intial response teams are shredded to pieces at the bank, where, using two hostages as a shield, an unknown man used a belt-fed machinegun to destroy entire patrol cars. The LAPD SWAT was called in, and in a coordinated sniper and assault team strike, killed all 5 of the terrorists. However, the massive automatic weapon crossfire resulted in the deaths of 3 hostages. At the shopping mall, the attack was a bit more successful, though had a much more profound psychological impact. TV crews and security cameras recorded chilling images: polished tiles smeared with the blood of rent-a-cops, armed gunmen exchanging shots with the LAPD, and hostages screaming for their lives. No hostages were killed though a police officer lost his life when a high-powered .308 bullet hit him in the head. In his honor the 'Schumaker Bill' was passed by Californian legislation, adding several thousand assault rifles to the inventories of border-city Police Departments.

Meanwhile, the US began an extensive campaign to track down and prosecute those involved in the logistics and planning of the act. FBI agents stormed the barrios, though two suspects (including a drug-lord who'd used his connections to acquire many of the rifles used in the act) fled to Cuba.

The election year rolled forward, with Clinton promising to uphold the rights of Latin American citizens and secure Mexico, while Dole argued the NAFTA act was too damaging to be upheld, essentially through violence. Democrats snapped back saying that this selfish attitude would only allow Mexico to destablize more, and may even increase illegal immigration beyond the rising levels due to a Mexican flight from dictatorship.

Though it was not the sole campaign issue, Clinton won the election.

1997- The dominant news story out of Southern California is race riots regarding several arrests and trials from the LA terrorist attacks of the previous year. OJ Simpson goes relatively unnoticed for quite some time.

On October 17, after the burial of Che Guevera with full military honors, the Cuban government says they will not hand the suspects unless the death penalty will be ruled out by the Californian governor. The Californian governor refuses to make such an agreement and demands that the 'Cuban government hand over these murderers lest they share in the stain of innocent blood'.

Cuba refuses.

On October 26 the Californian governor says 'America should do anything necessary to take these terrorists out of Cuba'. The next day, combined with the Asian financial crisis, the stock market plummets.

1998- The Monica Lewinsky scandal somehow manages to overshadow the Mexican conflict, if briefly. In an attempt to distract attention and out of complete frustration with Cuba, Clinton gives Cuba until March 20th to hand over the suspects.

The world watches with baited breath.

On March 18th a gunfire exchange takes place at Guantanamo Bay. Cubans say they saw a Marine crossing the border, Americans say the Cubans fired in error, and simply returned fire. The gunbattle ends with Cuban forces besieging Guantanamo Bay. The USS John F. Kennedy, which had ended a 6-month deployment in 1997, was quickly refitted for duty and called into the Carribbean. The Kennedy began immediate strikes on Cuba in retaliation. On March 20th a pair of F/A-18 Hornets supposedly kill Castro with a laser guided bomb. Soon after many members of the Cuban army desert and the US breaks out of Guantanamo, fighting skirmishes with guerillas and the Cuban army along the way.

By April American forces were at the edges of Havana, where the Cuban diehards were making their last stand. The USMC, after a massive 'precision' bombardment by American strategic aircraft, completes the assault. As a PR gesture, cameras roll as Cuban-Americans and anti-Castro Cuban guerillas raise the Cuban and American flags in Havana, though the Cuban one is ordered to fly higher. This is effectively the end of major resistance in Cuba. The rest of the island is gradually won over by Alberto Franqui, who becomes interim President of the Republic of Cuba. He promises not to remove the current healthcare given to Cubans, but makes an agreement to join NAFTA 'in the near future' as he begins programs to help develop Cuba into a free-market society.

Meanwhile, the rest of the world was shocked by the US invasion. Many agreed that the downfall of Castro was good, but they condemned the US violence. China and Russia began vetoing US pleas to help stablize Cuba or Mexico in the UN.

The African Embassy bombings are met with Operation Infinite Reach, and out of sheer luck, Osama Bin Laden is presumed killed, as he never appears in any audiovisual record again. Al-Qaeda never again adopts a rallying symbol. Desert Fox is also made in response to Hussein.

Socialist guerillas begin flooding into Mexico as Venezuela and several other nations condemn the US invasion of Cuba. Venezuela also begins negotiation for the purchase of fighter aircraft from the former Soviet Union. America discourages it but with no evidence to link the Venezuelan government to the incident the US grudgingly lets the deal go through.

Venezuela also begins talks with other South American nations about the possibility of a strengthened alliance bloc, though most nations are reluctant to do so or completely abhorr the idea.

1999- Republican governorships and senators win every US border state, as Republicans adopt a new platform of 'non-intervention'. Republicans angry at US intervention in Mexico are only moreso enflamed by conflicts in Cuba, Iraq, Sudan, the Balkans, and Afghanistan.

"For Clinton, love is war. And it's pretty clear by now he can't stand to stick with just one of either"
-Caller on FOX News, Jan 2nd 1999

But it seems the War in Mexico is slowing down. Many of the Zapatistas withdraw back into Chiapas and the Southern provinces, but increased illegal activity occurs near the borders. Texas and California deploy National Guard units and 'Minutemen Volunteer Groups' to monitor the border for crossing terrorists. In California, many illegal (and legal) immigrants are rounded up and arrested, and then held without trial for months. The Supreme Court rules in Marquez v California that the Californian government may not suspend habeas corpus and orders immediate trials for all arrested.

Clinton splits both parties. Anti-War Democrats and many Republicans say that he is fostering 'American Imperialism.' But many pro-business Republicans and neoliberal Democrats say that the wars were abseloutely necessary to American security and preserving democracy. The rifts only continue when Bush and McCain announce their bids for the 2000 Presidency against Al Gore, who is quickly voted in by Democratic Primaries and nominated. McCain ran as what the Op-Eds were calling 'Pax Americana moderates'. McCain's position on Mexico was outlined thusly:

"[There are] dangers implicit in failing to properly monitor traffic crossing the Mexican border, and there are certainly dangers in this war. Yet, Mexico is one of our largest trading partners, and it is in our best interest to maintain as open a border and as stable a nation as possible. It is a careful balancing act. [We should] ensure that we are doing everything we can to stem the flow of illegal drugs and Zapatista terrorists without impeding the flow of legitimate commerce. I think that its clear now the Mexican government needs our nation's aid to maintain that balance."

As the race begins, in November 30th clashes occur outside the Seattle WTO conference, many linking it to 'unjust US action in Mexico and Cuba'. There are no deaths but it illustrates growing anti-American sentiment from the Old Left and antiglobalizers, who compare the current US Carribbean wars to the Mexican American War. Rather than gaining territory for slaves, they argue the current government seeks to gain more territory for 'wage-slaves' and 'economic imperialism'.

As the race continues, Venezuela finds that virtually every anti-war candidate has been voted out of office. Though the rebellion is calming, Chavez will have none of it. Venezuela begins a mobilization of troops, and then the Zapatistas begin a last bid for freedom. Chiapas and other sections of Zapatista controlled territory hold a vote, and say that they are now the independent People's Republic of Chiapas. America is not amused, and refuses to recognize the nation. But the UNSC vote to send peacekeepers is again shut down by Russia and China, who ironically state the US is undermining the democratic process. The actual validity of the votes is never revealed but the Zapatistas do enjoy exceptional support.

The first nation to recognize the People's Republic is Venezuela. The next is China, who are seeking to solidify their oil partnership. Then a slew of other socialist nations fall in, all saying a new vote should be conducted with heavy UN monitoring.

It is scheduled for February of 2000.

The Mexican government and people, which has elected Vincente Fox on a heavy 'United Free Mexico' platform, refuses to recognize the People's Republic but knows it has virtually no control over the South. They sign a cease fire for the duration of the vote and demilitarize sections of Mexico, with the UN breathing down their necks.

2000: The vote goes smoothly, but for all the wrong reasons. With the uprising virtually every anti-Zapatista has fled the area, resulting in a landslide victory for the independence ballot.

The United States is outraged, and vetoes every UNSC measure to support the small nation.

Huge amounts of the Mexican Army from the far South desert, and the Mexican government, its troops already worn down by attrition, is desperate to raise enough troops. In late March the Mexican Army launches a last ditch offensive into disputed territory, but finds it bogged down by guerilla attacks and unexpected support of the Zapatista guerillas and the newborn Chiapas Army in disrupting the supply chain. The Mexicans quickly find themselves in the 'DMZ' with an offensive that, due to a combination of emotionally-fueled and ill-considered planning, incompetent leadership, and low troop morale, has driven itself into the jungle and mud with no escape in sight.

The US can do nothing in the DMZ. Cries for air support are heard but never met, as Venezuela begins shipping air defense into the small nation through the Yucatan. The Interim Governing Council of Chiapas decries the attack and requests Venezuelan military support in a 'purely defensive role'.

The two nations reach a standoff. America cannot afford a massive war with Venezuela, or so many argue. Already the 1998 fervor is slowing down in the nativist Republicans and anti-war Democrats. Over the summer of 2000, the US maintains a shaky relationship as an 'aid race' occurs over Mexico. As Venezuela moves troops into Chiapas, America sends more and more men into Mexico. China sends humanitarian aid to the new nation but refuses to take part in any military conflict.

Though a vote in the Organization of American States fails, the US threatens quarantine on Chiapas. The world protests, saying a quarantine on Chiapas is throwing it to the hungry wolves in the Mexican leadership. McCain wins the presidential election, and as the curtains close on the tumultous Clinton administration, both American and Venezuela prepare for war.

2001:


The new 'Chiapas Air Force' (crewed by Venezuelan pilots in Venezuelan planes) begins shooting down all Mexican aircraft that enter 'Chiapas Air Space'. Both nations are now ignoring the DMZ, though it is Mexico who is struggling to reform their military.

McCain's inaugural is a fiery speech about protecting Mexico and promoting freedom. In April, the unthinkable happens. Over some DMZ Border dispute, Mexican helicopter gunships 'accidentally' strafe several pro-Chiapas villagers. This is the last straw for many in the cities, and the pro leftist poor begin nearly complete rebellion. Fox refuses to leave, and instead calls his forces into the capital and other major cities to silence the rebellion.

But the Chiapan Republic seems to be eager for blood. They begin an immediate, full out assault into provinces as far as Vera Cruz. Old, but effective cruise missiles pound Mexico City, and the Mexican air force finds itself in no capacity to stand up to PRCAF equipment. The offensive scrambles towards Mexico City as their goal, where Vincente Fox attempts to flee. His aircraft is destroyed by Zapatistas using an SA-18 missile.

America is swift to respond. Within two days the 3rd Armored Cavalry has reached the battlefront, and utterly obliterates the Chiapan advance. The US Air Force achieves complete air superiority, and within 24 hours bombs rain on every inch of Chiapas. However, they do find that the hardcore Zapatistas, as the Vietnamese, were in no mood to roll over. Guerilla fighting bogs down US forces in Central Mexico as the US demands immediate Venezuelan troop withdrawal.

Chavez responds by saying they will not withdraw troops from Chiapas until the US sends its forces out of Mexico. With the Mexican government in shambles, Northern Mexico throws in the towel. In all US bordering states and Durango, state governments and people alike vote to become part of the US. Durango is the last to vote, with the official results being proclaimed in 2002. McCain heartily encourages the result of the vote. Though he remarks it is saddening that the Mexican government has failed, he believes the US and Mexico alike could have significant security and economic gains from the Mexican states joining the Union. By 2002, Congress passes the 'Southern Ordinance', which puts each region as a semi-autonomous territory for 5 years while infrastructure is put up and the US bureaucracy is established. Few vote against the measure, but many say it will help alleviate the immigration problems. Increased US business activity and new minimum wage laws will not result in the original US states being swamped with labor, say proponents, and the senate also offers a plan to naturalize all Mexican illegal immigrants. The US Mexican Territories all set up measures to help bring US business there, and also establish special task forces for cleaning out the crime and corruption left over from the old government. Ultimately, a homogenization begins. With the former border porous, many Mexicans go home to try and take advantage of US businesses setting up in former Northern Mexico, while many Americans are drawn to Mexico by cheaper land prices and a growing infrastructure. Though the US will likely have to condense some of the territories into larger states, many are optimistic.

Texas governor Bush now finds himself under intense scrutiny for his support of the militias, who now have no border to guard and are angry about Mexican integration, along with many other nativists. Many see their political careers going down as pro-war and pro-integration politicians get the victories they have been campaigning for. Many will need to make adjustments to their policy if they hope to survive upcoming elections. With the 2008 elections still an option for many politicans, it seems the new Mexican states may hurt their chances of the Presidency if the Mexican states still have bitter memories of nativists.

Map!

mex5cf.png
 
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CalBear

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Donor
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Interesting rewrite.

The military response is much less robust than what would seem to be indicated, however, it is well within the span of a big butterfly's wings. I would question the comparison to the Viet Nam situation; times, weapons & locations are very different, once again this is more of a quibble than a stopper.

Question: What slew of socialist states are you referring to?

I look forward to the next chapter.
 
Some Ideas to Consider....

-First, consider that the House Representative for Los Angeles, CA is Loretta Sanchez (D-CA), a second-generation Mexican-American. Consider that when she was elected in 1992, she narrowly defeated Representative Robert "B-1 Bob" Dornan (R-CA), a fierce supporter of the aerospace and defense industries in Orange County, CA. In OTL, Dornan lost by a larger electoral margin, despite charges of "illegal immigrants" voting in 1996. In the ATL, consider with the Los Angeles riots in 1996, this could be a problem. This was important because in 1996, Saqnchez helped to deliver Hispanic votes to Bill Clinton in the CA region...

-Second, that in the midst of such a cultural backlash, consider the following characters "butterflied" out of the pop culture limelight. In music, consider the music of Jennifer Lopez, Shakira, Christina Aguillera, Ricky Martin, Enrique Iglesias, Marc Antony, et al. would be considered too risque considering the nature of the fighting. Also consider that film would lose Jennifer Lopez, Antonio Banderas, Robert Rodriguez, Salma Hayek, Rosario Dawson, Jessica Alba, et al. due to a strong anti-Latino/Chicano backlash in Hollywood, CA.

-Third, consider that you have 25 members of the House of Representatives who are part of the Latino/Chicano-American Congressional Caucus. If the Republicans continue to bash the war in Mexico and Cuba, they risk sending 5 Representatives to the Democrats, giving them a clear majority in the House of Representatives.b Also consider that you will have Loretta Sanchez (D-CA) and Henry Bonilla (R-TX) leading the House in protest....
 
CalBear said:
Interesting rewrite.

The military response is much less robust than what would seem to be indicated, however, it is well within the span of a big butterfly's wings. I would question the comparison to the Viet Nam situation; times, weapons & locations are very different, once again this is more of a quibble than a stopper.

Question: What slew of socialist states are you referring to?

I look forward to the next chapter.

Socialist states isn't necessarily explicitly socialist (Perhaps anti-globalist would be a better term?), but those nations that have been against globalization or US foreign policy. Germany and France, for example, both recognize it, but stop short of supporting them as a nation. But Sri Lanka, North Korea, and South American nations like Argentina are recognizing it and vocally supporting it. (I Should probably talk about that in my next update, since many South American governments would be influenced by an anger at the US attempting to crush a small, anti-capitalist nation.
 

corourke

Donor
My only issue is that I think that lower Baja California would vote to join the US as well. It's just as integrated as upper Baja.
 
Yeah, it will. Part of the caveat is that they'll need to have organized votes and official tallies. Lower Baja California and a few of the former Mexican (but not Zapatista-influenced) states will vote in late 2002 and early 2003.
 
A Major problem...

-First, before there is any thought into annexation, consider that one major argument against annexation is the large narcotics networks in the regions that are possibly looking at U.S. annexation. These drug catels have a heavy traffic of marijuana, cocaine, and heroin from Hermesillo, Chihuahua, and Monterey, all areas that are looking at annexation. To make matters worse, according to Rep. Silvestre Reyes (D-TX) (8/19/1997), many of these drug cartels are actually hiring right-wing militia members to act as enforcer and bodygaurds. This will create a poilitical nightmare for those calling for annexation...

-Second, to make matters worse, according to the Miami Herald(8/11/2003), you have the additonal problem of Russian Maffiya members aiding the Mexican drug cartels with weapons in the region of Tiajuana, MX/San Diego, CA. Apparently Benjamín Arellano-Félix and Amado Carrillo Fuentes, heads of the Juarez cartels have, since 1997, been using surplus Soviet military aircraft as smuggling craft for both drugs and weapons. This will also cause a major nightmare for the U.S. military forces...
 
Yep, it's going to be hard. But the idea of pushing integration is that the United States will have complete and undisputed power to fight these narcotics networks. No more extradition laws, no more leaving things to corrupt Mexican Army and police units. That's why one of the first things mentioned in the Southern Ordinance is the creation of a (primarily American) Special Task Force for purging the territories of the drug gangs. Combined with the fact the US now has the authority to blow any aircraft it wants out of the sky over Mexico, the annexation could be argued as a way to decrease narco-trafficking.
 
Blochead said:
Yep, it's going to be hard. But the idea of pushing integration is that the United States will have complete and undisputed power to fight these narcotics networks. No more extradition laws, no more leaving things to corrupt Mexican Army and police units. That's why one of the first things mentioned in the Southern Ordinance is the creation of a (primarily American) Special Task Force for purging the territories of the drug gangs. Combined with the fact the US now has the authority to blow any aircraft it wants out of the sky over Mexico, the annexation could be argued as a way to decrease narco-trafficking.

Consider that this is tantamount to the establishment of the "no-fly zone" over Iraq in 1991. As such, many leaders are going to wonder, why the United States went the extra mile of annexation? Consider that this would be like the USSR annexing Afghanistan on the sole justification that it would help secure the borders of the country in c.1980-1985. Another good example would be if the UK invaded and subsequently annexed Ireland after the "Troubles" in Belfast and Derry in c. 1972-1977. This would actually inflame tensions in the United Nations against the United States. To make matters worse, consider other nations will use similar justifications for their actions (e.g. North Korea, India, Pakistan, Belarus, Iran, et al.)...
 
Right. But the idea is, the greatest justification was never voiced by US leaders. The Mexican states, after having their nation dismembered and decapitated, vote to become part of the US. The US does not need any justification, it only needs to offer benefits to the constituents of the Congress. Consider the situation... A lot of the world has recognized Chiapas' independence over a vote, logically they have to accept a nation voting to be a part of another.
 
Actually...

Blochead said:
Right. But the idea is, the greatest justification was never voiced by US leaders. The Mexican states, after having their nation dismembered and decapitated, vote to become part of the US. The US does not need any justification, it only needs to offer benefits to the constituents of the Congress. Consider the situation... A lot of the world has recognized Chiapas' independence over a vote, logically they have to accept a nation voting to be a part of another.

This rings hollow as an explanation. This would be like the British Dominion of Canada annexing and taking over New York, New England and the Great Lake states because the United States government suffered heavy losses at Antietam and Gettysburg by 1863. It would also be like the U.S. allowing the Syrian invasion of Lebanon in 1980, just because of the fact that the government collapsed. In fact this would give credence to the idea that NAFTA was created to destabilize the Mexican government....

Actually, wouldn't this cause the rise of an anti-American nationalist backlash in Mexico. Consider that all you have to do is is have one saavy politician say before Telemundo/Unavision Spanish press that NAFTA and the Zapatista rebellion was part of an "anti-Mexican conspiracy" to undermine a rising economy in Latin American affairs...

-As such, consider that you could easily have elected in the ATL, Benedicto Juarez, National Action Party (PAN) leader who argued against NAFTA in 1994. He would lead major labor strikes in Chihuahua, Sonora, Nuevo Leon, and Tiajuana. He would receive backing from much of the maquiladora labor leaders such as Roberto Valencio and Fernando Castro of Frente Autentico del Trabajadores (FAT) and the Union Nacional del Trabajadores (UNT) under Hernandez Juarez. Considering that they represent 20 million people throughout Mexico, this would be a strong political force to deal with. The idea of American annexation would only fuel their anger...

-To make matters uglier, Frente Autentico del Trabajadores (FAT), sent as an representative Benedicto Martinez to meet with EZLN Zapatista leaders as early as 1995. The idea was that the FAT/UNT labor coalition would recognize any democratic plebiscite for the independence of Chiapas, if the EZLN would back similar democratic reforms by the FAT/UNT coalition in Mexico City.....

This is not to say that everything will move smoothly...

-First consider that Subcomandante Marcos, EZLN in a memorandum to Internacional Consulta (2/14/1999) called for a massive "National Coordiantion Campaign". Organized by Internacional Consulta and Aztlan Chicano & Chicana Student Movement in San Francisco, CA; United Zapatista Dawn in New York City, NY; Bi-national Oaxacan Indigenous Front in Santa Cruz, CA; and Group for Peace and Resistance in Detroit, MI; a call was made for mass protests and civil unrest. Consider more ominous though were memorandums calling for "strategic actions" in Chicago, IL; Los Angeles, CA; Phoenix, AZ; San Diego, CA; San Francisco, CA; New York City, NY; El Paso, TX; Albuquerque, NM; and San Antonio, TX. It doesn't take much to consider this a possible ATL terrorist campaign. Consider this would add dark undertones to the term "Valentine's Day Massacre"....

-Opposition to such a war would most certainly bring out Archbishop Gambino Zavala in Los Angeles, CA (c.1994), Sister Tess Brown, with the United Farm Workers (UFW) in Watsonville, CA (c.1997), and Rev. Luis Cortez and Rev. Jesse Minalo, arch-conservative Republicans, in Washington D.C. (c.2001)...

-Consider also the underground network of Grupo Beta, which announced that in 2001, that it had successfully smuggled over 15,600 people into the United States in defiance of the INS....
 
I may have overreaded it, but I doubt Canada would sit down and watch onlly... Of course, Canada couldn't do much with the "army" that we have, but maybe they would hold it before the UN for a military answer (and how boy, some countries would so wait for that I gues...)?
 
You still don't understand. Mexicans voted for it. Why? Because they are tied to the US economy. Remember, their military has just been ripped apart, and now foreign nations are gathering in the South. All these political movements you mention are primarily based in the poorer regions of Mexico. Combined with the fact many would be fleeing these pro-US areas to Chiapas, the vote is going to reflect the idea that if these Mexican states are going to have their nation torn apart, they need a guarantee the United States won't completely close its borders to them. Supposing they didn't secede, and Zapatista attacks continue, the nativists are going to get a rebound and they will be screwed, caught between a US that doesn't want to deal with them and a Chiapas that wants to kill them. Obviously not all provinces of Mexico are going to vote to secede into US, but these ones near the border are. The US being a democratic republic, the vote of the people is enough justification for them.
 
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