The Reign of Romulus Augustus

Personally, I think the continued fragmentation of Iran seems unlikely in the long run: there's enough cultural (by this point) and geographic unity to the Iranian Plateau that someone is likely to reunify the area, although it might not happen for a century or two. Since Acheamenid times the area has been usually either unified under one state, in the process of being unified only to be interrupted by the next bunch of assholes off the steppe (which usually create at at least temporary unification) or part of an even larger empire, such as during the Mongol and Arab Caliphate periods. Parthia. Sassanid Persia. The Arab Caliphate. The Samanids (don't confuse with the Safavids :) ), Saffarids and Buyids came close. The Seljuk Sultanate. The Empire of Khwarizm. The Ilkhanate. Timur. The Safavids.
 
Personally, I think the continued fragmentation of Iran seems unlikely in the long run: there's enough cultural (by this point) and geographic unity to the Iranian Plateau that someone is likely to reunify the area, although it might not happen for a century or two. Since Acheamenid times the area has been usually either unified under one state, in the process of being unified only to be interrupted by the next bunch of assholes off the steppe (which usually create at at least temporary unification) or part of an even larger empire, such as during the Mongol and Arab Caliphate periods. Parthia. Sassanid Persia. The Arab Caliphate. The Samanids, Saffarids, (don't confuse with the Safavids :) ), and Buyids came close. The Seljuk Sultanate. The Empire of Khwarizm. The Ilkhanate. Timur. The Safavids.
 
@Romulus Augustus: I was just browsing and found this - you've now taken away what very little spare time I had by giving me another good TL to read :mad:. Seriously, the little I've read so far looks great. I don't like necro'ing threads so unless there's continued reaction I may not comment again, so let me take this opportunity to say thanks :).
 
Personally, I think the continued fragmentation of Iran seems unlikely in the long run: there's enough cultural (by this point) and geographic unity to the Iranian Plateau that someone is likely to reunify the area, although it might not happen for a century or two. Since Acheamenid times the area has been usually either unified under one state, in the process of being unified only to be interrupted by the next bunch of assholes off the steppe (which usually create at at least temporary unification) or part of an even larger empire, such as during the Mongol and Arab Caliphate periods. Parthia. Sassanid Persia. The Arab Caliphate. The Samanids (don't confuse with the Safavids :) ), Saffarids and Buyids came close. The Seljuk Sultanate. The Empire of Khwarizm. The Ilkhanate. Timur. The Safavids.

The thing with the sassanids is mesopotamia , as you can see their capital is ctesiphon while they are persian. Without that regio , i do believe the next turkish/iranian empire won't be that powerful ,at least at the beggining. And if some powerful arabian dominion appear (not islam but for exemple nestorian) , well things get even more complicated. See that war in ttl seems to have the same nature of power shift has the persian war iotl of the 610-20's except you don't have a third player ready while the two other are broken. Things in east ittl seems to be in a standstill for now.
 
The thing with the sassanids is mesopotamia , as you can see their capital is ctesiphon while they are persian. Without that regio , i do believe the next turkish/iranian empire won't be that powerful ,at least at the beggining. And if some powerful arabian dominion appear (not islam but for exemple nestorian) , well things get even more complicated. See that war in ttl seems to have the same nature of power shift has the persian war iotl of the 610-20's except you don't have a third player ready while the two other are broken. Things in east ittl seems to be in a standstill for now.

Hm, yes, but I said it could take a century or two for someone to reconsolidate the area, so I don't necessarily disagree. But when consolidation does come it likely includes Mesopotamia, which really hasn't been a hard target for foreign invaders since Nebuchadnezzar - it was a source of wealth, not mighty warriors. (The Sassanids started in Fars, after all). If the Eastern Romans were in a position of strength comparable to the Ottomans vs the Safavids, then yes, they might deny Mespotomia to an Anatolian plateau power, but the way things are going it seems the eastern Empire will be lucky if they manage to hold onto their core Balkan and Anatolian possessions. The Arabs are of course a wild card, but I don't see Mighty Arab Empire as any _likelier_ than Reunified Iran/Iran plus Turan/whatever in a century or two.
 
With the ERE's intention of gaining Persian Gulf coastline so they could have easier trade with the far east then could they perhaps avert their attention to the south along the Red Sea?

The Canal of the Pharaohs is still intact I think and OTL Roman ships had gotten to India trough the Red Sea route.

Also if you're gonna finish up the epilogue can you take a look at these points even a little?

1. details of situation in Britain

2. How are the Asian Civilizations being affected by all this change (Indians outside of the Khanate, and maybe China at least in regard to trade)

3. How far are Christian Missionaries going?

4. Has islam been nerfed?
 
And yes THAT plague , BUT does a plague make more damage with a damaged and quite fragmented area or with two big empire who were iotl in a rather peaceful time at the same period ? Besides without the Islam and some other bully like the avars and the slavs i believe the empire end up fregmented because of the divergeance between the different christian branch. Just put an theodius "the great"-like emperor when the central power was weakened and half the empire will probably tell him to go to hell.

War and trade facilitated the spread of the plague throughout the eastern Roman Empire. Peace, prosperity and commerce also provided ideal conditions for facilitating a plague outbreak. While the Eastern Empire of TTL has gone down a different path than its OTL counterpart (i.e. no expedition to reclaim the lost Western Empire due to said Empire still existing ITTL), many of the variables that enabled the Plague of Justinian to spread so far and quickly still exist in this alternate history. So yes, TTL's Eastern Empire will get hit pretty hard, just like in the OTL--I honestly don't see any possible way around this.

Personally, I think the continued fragmentation of Iran seems unlikely in the long run: there's enough cultural (by this point) and geographic unity to the Iranian Plateau that someone is likely to reunify the area, although it might not happen for a century or two. Since Acheamenid times the area has been usually either unified under one state, in the process of being unified only to be interrupted by the next bunch of assholes off the steppe (which usually create at at least temporary unification) or part of an even larger empire, such as during the Mongol and Arab Caliphate periods. Parthia. Sassanid Persia. The Arab Caliphate. The Samanids (don't confuse with the Safavids :) ), Saffarids and Buyids came close. The Seljuk Sultanate. The Empire of Khwarizm. The Ilkhanate. Timur. The Safavids.

It certainly is possible for the reasons you stated. I've been giving some thought on how Post-Sassanian history will unfold in this timeline. Thank you for giving me some ideas!

@Romulus Augustus: I was just browsing and found this - you've now taken away what very little spare time I had by giving me another good TL to read :mad:. Seriously, the little I've read so far looks great. I don't like necro'ing threads so unless there's continued reaction I may not comment again, so let me take this opportunity to say thanks :).

Thank you very much! I appreciate your words. If you ever want to share any thoughts or ideas you might have regarding this timeline, by all means please feel free to comment and let me know.

With the ERE's intention of gaining Persian Gulf coastline so they could have easier trade with the far east then could they perhaps avert their attention to the south along the Red Sea?

Unfortunately for the Eastern Empire, gaining access to the the Persian Gulf trade route is off of the table, let alone seizing control of it. That area is controlled/contested by the Sassanian rump states along the Gulf.

Also if you're gonna finish up the epilogue can you take a look at these points even a little?

1. details of situation in Britain

2. How are the Asian Civilizations being affected by all this change (Indians outside of the Khanate, and maybe China at least in regard to trade)

3. How far are Christian Missionaries going?

4. Has islam been nerfed?

Thank you for bringing up these points. The main focus of the Epilogue will be the "Post-Romulus Augustus" history of the House of Romulus Augustus (aka "Pannonian Dynasty"), but I will also write about other things such as Britain, the Asian civilizations and Christian missionary work, at least insofar as they relate to the history of the Western Empire (or the Roman Empire as a whole).

Pretty much every Islam-related comment on this thread indicates that people believe it would have been butterflied due to the gap between TTL's POD (AD 475) and the start of Islam (OTL AD 610). Muhammad was born around AD 570 so I'm pretty sure people will say that it's unlikely he would be born ITTL, what with 95 years between the POD and his OTL birth. At the very least, it leaves me with the challenge of deciding what religion or political power would have most likely emerged in the Middle East if Islam hadn't come around when it did. Would the Eastern Empire have remained dominant in its part of the Middle East? Would it still retain Egypt, Syria and the rest of the Oriens Diocese? What effects will this have on Christianity in the Middle East? I also have to decide what will happen to the Sassanian successor states, as well as the Hephthalite Khanate. Suffice it to say that there are a lot of things I need to consider before going forward with Epilogue.
 
From what I remember the establishment of the Germanic colonists in the Mesopotamia area was to set up client kingdoms that would not dominate but be rivals with each other. The E.R.E. would be able to play them off against each other so one would not dominate but would be a bulwark against everything East of the Zargos mountains. One such tribute from those client kingdoms for support from their underclass of non Germanic citizens would be no or minor taxes on trade through the Persian Gulf. What is the situation as far as that goes.
 
From what I remember the establishment of the Germanic colonists in the Mesopotamia area was to set up client kingdoms that would not dominate but be rivals with each other. The E.R.E. would be able to play them off against each other so one would not dominate but would be a bulwark against everything East of the Zargos mountains. One such tribute from those client kingdoms for support from their underclass of non Germanic citizens would be no or minor taxes on trade through the Persian Gulf. What is the situation as far as that goes.

Although the Eastern Empire technically claimed victory in the Roman-Sassanid War, one major drawback is that they haven't cleared the way to allow for Roman or Roman-allied control of the Persian Gulf trade routes. The "Mesopotamia" area ("western" Khvarvaran) is now occupied by a collection of small Germanic kingdoms that have risen up in place of the Sassanians and Hephthalites, but "eastern" Mesopotamia is still controlled by an Iranian nation/Sassanian successor state (i.e. Khvarvaran). As a result of the fact that there are still Sassanian factions west of the Zagros, blocking the Romans and their allies from access to the Persian Gulf, the Empire has failed to achieve one of the economic objectives that drove Justinian to lead the Roman East into a state of total war with the Sassanians. Because of this setback, the Persian Gulf is now a contested area between the Sassanian successor states that run along the gulf's northern shore (i.e. Khvarvaran, Sassanid Persia [rump state], and Paratan) as well as the Lakhmids and Azd 'Oman in Arabia.

Making matters worse is the fact that the Eastern Empire has a "complicated" relationship with the newly-formed Germanic kingdoms in the "Mesopotamia" and "Armenia" areas. Some are more loyal to the Empire (out of dependence on Roman subsidies rather than any "Pro-Roman" sentiment) than others, but the growing realization of just how vulnerable and unstable the Empire's eastern frontier has become is causing these former allies to launch small-scale incursions into Roman territory for the purpose of plunder and slaves. The irony is that while the use of barbarian-based sources for the war effort contributed to the Eastern Empire's "victory," the consequence is that the Romans have also established new powers in the region--any one of which could be a potential asset or threat.
 
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Abhakhazia

Banned
The thing about Islam is that its rise was helped immesureably by its ability to seize the Egypt, Mesopotamia and the Levant almost immediately due to the long and mutually destructive war between the Persians and Romans.

So even if Arabia existed in a vacuum and Mohammad still existed and became a prophet, he most likely would be dashed against the Syrian fortifications, and the smaller and fresher Germanic states of Mesopotamia.
 
I know, thats why I asked if they were going to divert their attention to the Red Sea route

I would think so. The Red Sea route to the Far East is the only path on the Silk Road that's still open to the Romans, at least more so than the land route which passes through the now chaos and conflict-engulfed Sassanid Persia where travelers can get robbed or killed at a moment's notice, or forced to pay a heavy fine in exchange for safe passage across the territories they travel through. At this time, the lands of the now former Sassanian Empire are not ideal for traveling along the Silk Road, either by land or the Persian Gulf sea route.
 
I would think so. The Red Sea route to the Far East is the only path on the Silk Road that's still open to the Romans, at least more so than the land route which passes through the now chaos and conflict-engulfed Sassanid Persia where travelers can get robbed or killed at a moment's notice, or forced to pay a heavy fine in exchange for safe passage across the territories they travel through. At this time, the lands of the now former Sassanian Empire are not ideal for traveling along the Silk Road, either by land or the Persian Gulf sea route.

It's a shame that this will only be an epilogue, the amount of things that could be done with this could be endless
 
EmperorOfTheNorthSea: I know, but that's mostly why it's going to be an epilogue. There's just way too detail to cover; even an emperor with a considerably shorter reign than Romulus Augustus could take awhile to get through, never mind several more emperors who would require similar treatment. Besides, the main objective of this timeline has always been to create an "alternate version" of the reign of Romulus Augustus. Nevertheless, I never wanted to just leave it at that either. So while the Epilogue will not be as detailed as the main focus of the timeline, it should hopefully provide a sufficient level of insight into the future of this alternate reality.


The House of Romulus Augustus
Epilogue Part 1


OLYBRIUS II (r. AD 516—542)

Olybrius II, son of the great Romulus Augustus, left behind a mixed legacy. He had always been regarded as a wild one—a physically tough, brutish lout; devoid of any trace of empathy or humility. Despite these qualities, he had always been loyal to his father, whom he regarded as the greatest Emperor in Roman history, and thus he sought to follow in the same path. In Olybrius’s mind, the quickest way to achieve greatness in his own right was through battle. With both his father and mother no longer alive to keep him in check, Olybrius hastened to war, leading an army to the aid of the pro-Roman aristocracy in Mauretania. Despite several victories on the battlefield, Olybrius was unable to force a decisive outcome due in part to his own recklessness as a strategist. Lacking adequate manpower, his troops were spread too thin, allowing for the Mauri to gradually overwhelm the Romans through a series of small-scale skirmishes and ambushes. Eventually the Emperor and his army were forced to take refuge in Altava, the capital of the Mauro-Roman kingdom that remained loyal to the Western Empire of the Romans.

As the Romans fell back behind the walls of Altava, the Mauri—now augmented via alliances with the Gaetuli and the Garamantes—seized the momentum by following the Emperor and placing his city under siege. Although his officers advised patience, arguing that the city had enough troops and supplies to weather a siege until reinforcements from Africa arrived, Olybrius rejected their approach, exclaiming that he and his soldiers would not be remembered as “cowards who hid behind walls like frightened women and children.” The Emperor’s command was to launch a counterattack against the besiegers, forcing the Romans and their Mauro-Roman brethren into a battle in which defeat was all but certain. However, Olybrius was prevented from leading the sortie in person due to the physical ailments of old age. This proved beneficial to the Romans, enabling more able commanders to make the best out of a critical situation without Olybrius’s interference. The Romans and their allies fought valiantly, utilizing effective tactics and their superior training to outfight the enemy for a time. But in spite of their courage and best efforts, the Roman army was ultimately defeated in the Battle of Altava, consequently leaving the city less protected and more vulnerable to a direct assault.

The Romans at Altava did not die in vain, however. Even with the support of the Gaetuli and Garamantes, the Mauri sustained a large number of casualties. In addition to losing thousands to death or severe injury, some of their supplies were destroyed by the Romans who managed to fight their way to several Mauri camps after breaking through enemy lines. So while Altava’s defenses were severely weakened, the Mauri no longer possessed the necessary means to maintain a prolonged siege as a result of their own pyrrhic victory. A full-scale attack was considered, but ultimately rejected by the rank-and-file Mauri, many of whom came to fear the Romans’ resolve after witnessing their sacrifice on the battlefield. Faced with an impasse, the Mauri offered to give safe passage out of Altava to the Emperor and his remaining forces. Olybrius accepted the deal, leaving the shocked and outraged inhabitants to their own defenses. As they departed the all but doomed city, the citizens of Altava shouted “Judas” to the Emperor. This event would be remembered as the Great Betrayal.

Olybrius withdrew with the remnants of his army to Carthage, the capital of the Diocese of Africa. His failed campaign in Mauretania had a profound impact on his ego and psyche. He had been defeated but refused to acknowledge it as such; doing so was beneath an Emperor of the Romans from his perspective. Instead, he sent messengers to Rome, Ravenna and the other major cities throughout Italy and Africa, instructing officials to host a huge celebration in honor of their Emperor’s great victory at Altava. He took all of the credit for the damage that his troops inflicted on the Mauri, despite the fact that it was his officers who turned a crushing loss into a valiant defeat. In spite of his aggrandized account of his own role in the conflict, Olybrius remained bitter and depressed over its outcome. Sickened by himself and the overall situation in Africa, he returned to Italy in late AD 538 even as roaming hordes of Mauri and Garamantes—emboldened by their success in Mauretania—began to invade the Empire’s African provinces.

The Emperor’s return to Ravenna had little effect on the state of the Imperial capital, which by then was under the de facto control of the palace official Herodianus. In some ways he was a broken man; the energy and zeal of his youth were drained by old age and physical deterioration. Fed up with politics and trying to live up to his father’s legacy, Olybrius sank into decadence and indolence, consigning himself to the pleasures of debauchery, lechery, gluttony and drunkenness. His physical and mental decline over the next few years culminated in obesity and increasingly violent mood swings. In addition to ruining himself physically, his extravagances began affecting the financial state of the Empire. Vast sums of money were diverted to the Emperor’s personal projects, including the construction of several new palaces, as well as a hippodrome in Ravenna, all of which were initiated for the sole pleasure of Olybrius. It had taken decades for Romulus Augustus to revive the fortunes of the Western Empire, which even then was still highly dependent on economic support from its counterpart the Eastern Empire, but it took only a few years for Olybrius to bring the West to near financial ruin once more.

By AD 540, the Christianized Roman world was shocked by the Western Emperor’s latest scandal at a time when they were just becoming accustomed to Olybrius’s outrageous behavior. In the past he had secretly enjoyed a flirtatious relationship with Galla Rusticiana Marcia, the wife of his first-born son and junior colleague Theodosius II [1]. With the exception of a single drunken night together, Olybrius did not dare to allow this forbidden romance to continue while his morally-strict father and mother lived. With both dead, he ultimately dropped his restraint with regard to his lust for Marcia, along with any effort at concealment. Olybrius’s decision to live with Marcia in public as virtual man and wife became a source of immense shame for his true wife and son, Irene and Theodosius, respectively. It was common knowledge that faithfulness meant nothing to an adulterer like Olybrius, but seducing his own daughter-in-law was too much for the conventional morality of the Roman people. While it generated sympathy for the Empress, who was already popular and beloved for her modest nature and support for charity, the scandal eliminated what little pretense of respect there was for Theodosius. He had always been considered unworthy of his great namesake due to his weak character; now the known world regarded him as a cuckold in the worst possible way. Even the paternity of his own children with Marcia was called into question as rumors circulated that Olybrius was their true father.

Every appeal for the Emperor to end this disgraceful liaison and take up with his lawful wife were ignored. The situation worsened when the public discovered that Marcia was pregnant by mid AD 541. Since she and her true husband lived apart as a result of her relationship with Olybrius, no one questioned who the father was. Ultimately, Pope Simplicius II issued an ultimatum to the Emperor, beseeching Olybrius to end the abominable affair with his own daughter-in-law or risk excommunication from the holy Catholic Church. For the first time in many years, Church and State were on a collision course. But while the Imperial Court was firmly entrenched in the Emperor’s thrall—its members more concerned with personal wealth and avarice than Roman or Christian virtue—the majority of the people sided with Simplicius and angrily demanded for an end to this unholy affair. Olybrius's obstinate reaction, or lack of any reaction at all, contributed to his increasing public disapproval, leading to instances of civil disturbances in multiple cities throughout the Western Empire. But as the possibility of civil war grew more apparent, a deadly outbreak of plague emerged in the Western Empire; first in Africa and then spreading throughout the Italian Peninsula.

The Great Plague, alternatively known as the Plague of Justinian due to its surfacing first in the Eastern Empire, was a devastating pandemic that swept through the known world, ravaging the Empire and many of its neighbors on an unprecedented scale. The Empire’s own population, combined by the extensive road and trade network that linked the port cities throughout the Mediterranean, ironically amplified the speed and magnitude of the pandemic. It would ultimately claim the lives of millions, reducing the world population by a staggering thirteen percent. This massive reduction in population had Empire-wide consequences for the Romans, resulting in mass crop failure and consequently famine as well. The Imperial family and members of the Imperial Court remained unaffected by food shortage, but were vulnerable to the plague like virtually everyone else. Olybrius’s own physical condition—worsened by his excessively hedonistic lifestyle—made him even more susceptible to infection. He contracted the disease by late AD 541 and perished the following year on January 22nd at the age of 58. His daughter-in-law and mistress, Marcia, died in childbirth six days later along with her child who was stillborn.

The legacy of Olybrius II was tainted by his vanity, limited military experience, incompetent administration, and military setbacks such as the debacle in Mauretania. Where the historians sang praise after praise for Romulus Augustus, many were quick to condemn Olybrius for reversing much of the good fortune that the Western Empire enjoyed under his father’s reign. Though a fringe of Olybrius’s supporters continued to exist after his reign, he was widely perceived as an incompetent Emperor; egocentric, rash and given to bad judgment. It would be centuries before his memory was partially rehabilitated as some later historians took a softer view of his legacy, noting that at the very least his presence allowed for a peaceful transition of power and therefore provided Romulus Augustus’s plans for dynastic succession to gain momentum instead of collapsing outright with his demise. Nevertheless, there was a consensus that Olybrius was almost nothing like his predecessor. Abrahamus Wenceslaus, a thirteenth century Romano-Slavic poet, summed up Olybrius’s legacy by referring to him as “not the new Romulus, but Commodus II.”

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Olybrius Corpulentus (“Olybrius the Fat,” painted AD 1024)​

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[1] Theodosius II [of the West], son of Olybrius II; not to be confused with the eastern Theodosius II (AD 401–450), son of Arcadius.

A/N: The format of the Epilogue will be a summary of the respective reigns of the Emperors who follow in Romulus Augustus’s bloodline/dynasty. This may take a little while so I can't say exactly how often each part of the overall Epilogue will be released.

There will be a “spin-off” for its eastern branch, the Justinian dynasty, which is connected to Romulus’s house via Justinian’s marriage to Honoria, Romulus’s granddaughter.

I will also make a few map-based updates (similar to the AD 537 Map) in order to give some insight into the bigger picture of the timeline’s Post-Romulus Augustus Period.
 
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I just finished reading everything, except the last update. This timeline is up there as the best of Alt-Roman timelines, along with Age of Miracles by Basilleus. Very impressive, RA!
 

Abhakhazia

Banned
@Romulus Augustus

Would referring to Theodosius as Theodosius II of the West as opposed to just Theodosius III be something done? They both would have been Roman Emperors in a time when the Roman Empire was viewed as "one, but seperate". Perhaps this is just a later historical convention and the Roman Empires will grow further apart.

Olybrius II seems to be the Tiberius to Romulus's Augustus. Depressed with the job and retreating into hedonism. Not a good Emperor to have at the time of the Plague of Justinian. I hope his children are able to get things back into shape, otherwise I fear the efforts of Romulus would have been for nought.
 
Would referring to Theodosius as Theodosius II of the West as opposed to just Theodosius III be something done? They both would have been Roman Emperors in a time when the Roman Empire was viewed as "one, but seperate". Perhaps this is just a later historical convention and the Roman Empires will grow further apart.

I almost did call him "Theodosius III" for that very reason -- the Empire being one, yet separate -- but then I noticed that both West and East had their own "Constantine III." Yes, the western Constantine III began as a usurper, but was later legitimized as Honorius's co-emperor so technically he counts as a legit emperor. As with our own history, this alternate timeline treats the western and eastern lines of Roman emperors as separate and distinct after the de facto "final split" between East and West as a result of the death of Theodosius I in AD 395.

So for example, whereas Constantine I and his son Constantine II count for the Empire as a whole, in the OTL there is a Constantine III for the West and a separate Constantine III for the East. Likewise, in this alternate timeline there was a Theodosius II for the East and now another Theodosius II, this time for the West.

Olybrius II seems to be the Tiberius to Romulus's Augustus. Depressed with the job and retreating into hedonism. Not a good Emperor to have at the time of the Plague of Justinian. I hope his children are able to get things back into shape, otherwise I fear the efforts of Romulus would have been for nought.

Tiberius made some bad choices, but to be fair he was an effective emperor--well more so than the one who came after him. I can see the connection between Tiberius and TTL's Olybrius II, but actually the latter is more based on an amalgam of rulers who succeeded great monarchs yet failed to live up to the legacy and accomplishments of their predecessors. Aside from that, his flaws as a character finally caught up to him by negatively affecting his reign as a senior Augustus.
 
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