The Legacy of the Glorious (Milarqui's Cut)

[Nivek]

So here come the spanish-american war, or the alliance-american war?(as the treaty are defensive was US own fault declaring war so germany and even Austro-Hungary if can keep their affair together).

About AH...you got it wrong, when the goverment have autonomy, they can not disobey the austria initiatives, they did planned wanting it at long term but the issue was the lack of a indepent army(yeah have the name Hosenveg but was fully funded and armed by austria) so they can cry about it but ironically FF doing is illegal too, he have to wait till 1907 when ausgleich is being renegotiated(was every 10 years but austria loved Franz Joseph so much never bother anything but teir plan b was wanting independt army to get independance the next crisis).

the rest was amazing. hope how this war will unfold(with a bloody nose for the US)

 

[Archangel]

A war with the US, fought in the Americas, will be complicated to fight.

 

[Deimos]

[...]

OK, first things first: I really, really did not want to repeat the USS Maine incident. I actually told myself several times that I would not go the easy way. Actually, the initial idea was to use the incident with the sailors as the spark, but I realised it would have been the most idiotic excuse for such a war to happen (probably around the same level as the War of Jenkins' Ear) and decided to just use the issue to heat up the atmosphere between the USA and Spain. But then, when it came down to the spark, I saw that there was no way one side would attack the other without a reason, and I did not have Tocomocho's excuse of Venezuela's war to bring the initial smackdown, so... strange explosion + paranoid navy = "OMFG, we are being attacked!". Yes, it is a bit weak, because someone with enough sense should have done like Stanislav Petrov and realised that there was no way the Spanish ships would have shot just one shell.

Ugh. Trying to find a way to start a war is not easy.

Well, at that time there is always the possibility of a random anarchist blowing something up that gets misinterpreted.
Alternatively, you could make the issue a little bit more gray. Have local bandits try to help one of their own escape from the same prison the American soldiers are kept in. The soldiers are killed in the crossfire and it is unclear whether they were killed by the guards or the bandits. As a result the US gives Spain an ultimatum that the prison guards and the local governor are to be extradited to make them stand trial and Spain refuses to hand them over.
Spain would have done nothing wrong and the US would have an excuse to go to war to prevent the lawlessness that Spanish rule "obviously" tolerates and encourages.

 

[Tocomocho]

It's a great update, Milarqui.

Just waiting for the Spanish-American War...

PS: Maybe you could make Franco's father died during this SA War, causing the then little Francisco Franco not really hate his father (a womanizer with liberal tendencies), and bases his future political ideology on the ideas defended by his mother (a traditionalist woman, very religious).

This... is OTL. Well, other than Papa Franco (Don't remember his name... Nicolas?) not dying in war. Little Franco hated him dearly and acted as if he was dead, though.

Seriously, you could write a Freudian tract on Franco's life even better than on Hitler's. Papa Franco was abusive with his children, unfaithful (he had a recognized bastard while destined in the Philippines), alcoholic, and plain left the family to fend for themselves in the early 1900s. He was also a liberal, a mason, and irreligious. Yeah. Put that side by side with Franco's speeches on the Antispain. Other than him not being a Jew (though ironically, there was some possible Jewish ancestry on Franco's mother's side) and a communist, you can construct it as Francoo rallying against his dad.

The movie script Franco wrote is another testament. The main character is a transparent version of himself, and the brothers and mother are of Franco's own. But the movie father was a war hero that had a glorious death fighting the Yankees in Cuba and died with a smile on his face, apparently knowing he was going to fascist Valhalla.

Franco's dad, on the other hand, had a pathetic end. He was apparently still around in the Madrid of the 1940s, going from bar to bar asking for free drinks because he was the father of the Generalissimo.

EDIT: Sorry, I misread the comment. You can easily see Mama Franco's influence on him IOTL though, when it comes to religion and probably others (for example, the fact that she was Galician nobility and the Francoist propaganda that claimed regional languages were dialects of Spanish and advised people to speak "properly" - Galician nobility had been Castilian speaking since the 15th century and saw Galician as peasant speak).

 

[rush4you]

Not sure if Brazil would dispute the Acre region as OTL. In OTL Bolivia just ended a civil war, and the industrialization of both Bolivia and Peru would have resulted in increasing Bolivian inmigration to the región, making OTL casus belli (separatism byBrazilian inmigrants) more difficult.

Other than that, if Brazil actually enters the war against Peru and Bolivia, well, they are more or less screwed. Unless you somehow get Colombia and/or Argentina into the fray.

 

[Milarqui]

@Nivek: in spite of what seem to be confusing rabbling on your part (please, please, please, try to find a way to write in better English, it looks like you are passing what you write in your local language, which I presume is Spanish, through an internet translator), I have managed to gather the following:
- You are wondering if the war will be just between Spain and the US or if Germany/Austria-Hungary/Italy will join (they will, but their contribution will be somewhat limited).
- Hungary has autonomy but cannot disobey Vienna, they planned to do that over time, but since they do not have an independent army they can do little about it.
- What Franz Ferdinand did was also illegal, but might have been able to do it if he had waited two years.
- Since Austria loved Franz Joseph so much IRL, they never bothered to negotiate terms in the years following the Compromise of 1867.

@Archangel: yes, it is difficult, but Spain has many local troops in the Caribbean, as well as a dedicated fleet. At most, the trouble would be trying to bring supplies across the ocean, but the Spanish Navy is quite better than the US Navy.

@Deimos: not sure if such a thing would actually work. I mean, yes, it is a potential casus belli, but it would require the bandits' attack to either lead to an attempt to liberate the entire prison's population (unlikely) or a riot (slightly more likely).

@Linense/Tocomocho: the issue of Francisco "I'm a tiny asshole out to screw my country" Franco Bahamonde might not actually happen here.

@rush4you: good points, both of them. However, there is another thing to be added, which is that both Brazil and Perú/Bolivia are friends/allies with Spain, which is likely to ensure they come to the table instead of the battlefield to solve any issues.

 

[Nivek]

@Nivek: in spite of what seem to be confusing rabbling on your part (please, please, please, try to find a way to write in better English, it looks like you are passing what you write in your local language, which I presume is Spanish, through an internet translator), I have managed to gather the following:
- You are wondering if the war will be just between Spain and the US or if Germany/Austria-Hungary/Italy will join (they will, but their contribution will be somewhat limited).
- Hungary has autonomy but cannot disobey Vienna, they planned to do that over time, but since they do not have an independent army they can do little about it.
- What Franz Ferdinand did was also illegal, but might have been able to do it if he had waited two years.
- Since Austria loved Franz Joseph so much IRL, they never bothered to negotiate terms in the years following the Compromise of 1867.

@Archangel: yes, it is difficult, but Spain has many local troops in the Caribbean, as well as a dedicated fleet. At most, the trouble would be trying to bring supplies across the ocean, but the Spanish Navy is quite better than the US Navy.

@Deimos: not sure if such a thing would actually work. I mean, yes, it is a potential casus belli, but it would require the bandits' attack to either lead to an attempt to liberate the entire prison's population (unlikely) or a riot (slightly more likely).

@Linense/Tocomocho: the issue of Francisco "I'm a tiny asshole out to screw my country" Franco Bahamonde might not actually happen here.

@rush4you: good points, both of them. However, there is another thing to be added, which is that both Brazil and Perú/Bolivia are friends/allies with Spain, which is likely to ensure they come to the table instead of the battlefield to solve any issues.

You're the only one have issue with my written english, all other never complain about it. But well.

In general those were my points, so what are your two cents about it?.

As Say before, when Hungarian did want more power in each ausgleich, they respected Franz Joseph too much to avoid rock the boat too much, but in otl, if FF have been emperor in 1917, they would have pushed for an indepedent army(thus full independance if next crisis ahead).

 

[mfarah]

You're the only one have issue with my written english, all other never complain about it. But well.

Dude, I'm fully bilingual (Spanish/English) and I also have serious trouble understanding what you write.

 

[mfarah]

War. Oh, boy.

Time to wrestle back Florida from the Americans! Pensácola included!

Although... while we're at this... what shall be both UK's and France's reaction to the Spain(s)/USA war? I bet both will be heavily tempted to aid USA in secret, just to make things difficult for Spain.

 

[Milarqui]

You're the only one have issue with my written english, all other never complain about it. But well.

Maybe they were too nice to complain. Or maybe it's just that I am a grammar nazi.

In general those were my points, so what are your two cents about it?

I am not sure where you want to know my two cents in that I have not explained yet.

As Say before, when Hungarian did want more power in each ausgleich, they respected Franz Joseph too much to avoid rock the boat too much, but in otl, if FF have been emperor in 1917, they would have pushed for an indepedent army(thus full independance if next crisis ahead).

OK, that was more similar to actual English, even if there's still several problems with grammar ("rocking the boat") and ortography ("independent", "independence"). If you are wondering whether the Hungarians will attempt to take advantage of the situation to push for an independent army... keep reading.

Time to wrestle back Florida from the Americans! Pensácola included!

Although... while we're at this... what shall be both UK's and France's reaction to the Spain(s)/USA war? I bet both will be heavily tempted to aid USA in secret, just to make things difficult for Spain.

If Spain goes and takes Florida, it won't look exactly as if they were the ones attacked, and, besides, it opens a huge can of worms, what with so many Americans in there, and I don't think the Spanish would like to suddenly share a land border with someone that now hates them (as in, those ungrateful bastards).

 

[The Forty-Eighth Rōnin]

We need MOAR war! War, I say!

 

[MorningDew]

If Spain goes and takes Florida, it won't look exactly as if they were the ones attacked, and, besides, it opens a huge can of worms, what with so many Americans in there, and I don't think the Spanish would like to suddenly share a land border with someone that now hates them (as in, those ungrateful bastards).

Considering that just getting past the swamps and the front-line defense systems set up alone would cost a staggering amount of money and lives, and holding it with angry residents and said swamps and a u.s. army BACKED BY BOTH BRITAIN AND FRANCE would be more trouble than its worth, I don't think that Spain is going to invade Florida.

Even though you guys are clamoring to "NERF THE US! NERF THE US!", the fact that they are backed by both Britain and France actually makes it more likely for Spain to "lose" the war. I think that by far the most plausible outcome is a stalemate in Cuba leading to a ceasefire. But that's just my opinion, if the author can make a good enough case through his writing, then I'm all for whatever he puts out.

Can we have an updated map of Spain and its provinces (on that cool flag thingy?)

 

[mfarah]

If Spain goes and takes Florida, it won't look exactly as if they were the ones attacked, and, besides, it opens a huge can of worms, what with so many Americans in there, and I don't think the Spanish would like to suddenly share a land border with someone that now hates them (as in, those ungrateful bastards).

I know. You and your realpolitik considerations. :-(

Then again, it's fun to play the war hawk every now and then. :-D

 

[Tocomocho]

You're the only one have issue with my written english, all other never complain about it. But well.

In general those were my points, so what are your two cents about it?

He's the writer. He's the only with the right to call you on it.

 

[ramones1986]

In relation to the coat of arms of the Bonapartist Kingdom of Corsica, it took me almost two years to create my own version:

 

[Milarqui]

OK, I've spent two days working on it... and here's a map of the entire United Empire of the Spains, with the foral flags included.

Things to take into account:
- The four "regions" (Peninsula + Atlántico, Caribbean, Asia and Africa) are not at the same scale.- The Oranesado is a province of Bética, provisionally.
- I didn't do the African flags pretty much because they aren't yet Foral Regions (and I didn't know what to put in them, TBH).
- The small squares in Asia are East Timor (the one with the Habagatan colors) and Macao (the one with Hilaga colors).
- I know that the Quisqueya flag is ugly, but it was the best I could make up (I'm not good at the flag-making, sadly), so, if anyone has a better idea, please, tell me (same for all other flags).

 

[Zealot]

Hey, Milarqui, why "Levante" instead of " Valencia" ?. IOTL some sort of valencian regionalism developed in valencian lands, centered around city of Valencia in the last quarter of the 19th C , so IMHO ITTL, with far more widespread industrial development, this protovalencianism will grow stronger and less cinscuscribed to cultural matters.

 

[Milarqui]

Hey, Milarqui, why "Levante" instead of "Valencia"?IOTL some sort of valencian regionalism developed in valencian lands, centered around city of Valencia in the last quarter of the 19th C, so IMHO ITTL, with far more widespread industrial development, this protovalencianism will grow stronger and less cinscuscribed to cultural matters.

Well, the decision was made to put the Balearic Islands in the same Foral Region as Valencia, and the BI were once part of a different "kingdom" (the Kingdom of Mallorca), so there was not much of a push to name the region after the city in there. Then, someone proposed to call it as of their position respect the Peninsula (having the easternmost point of the "center" of the Empire) so there.

 

[Zealot]

Ok, I didn't realise the merger with Mallorca and Baleares.

 

[mfarah]

¿Asturias, región foral querida?

Ok, so what about having merged León with Asturias?

Also, I can't see Andorra within Cataluña.

Also, I can't see Pensácola... just kidding. I'll shut up now. :-D