Republican Spain wins the Spainish civil war

[Grimm Reaper]

I would urge all to read Homage To Catalonia by George Orwell for some idea of how the Republican cause was slowly destroyed by their Stalinist 'allies'.

If Franco had lost, there would have been no avoiding a second civil war between the hard-line left and more moderate forces.

Personally I suspect that for the Stalinists to have lost such a conflict after mid-1937 the rest of the Republican movement would have had to make common cause with some of the recently defeated Nationalists, perhaps leaving Spain sufficiently moderate to avoid Hitler's wrath.

The worst is that if Hitler does decide to invade Spain then he probably delays Barbarossa by a year, during which time he takes Spain and Gibralter and quite probably shatters the British position in the Middle East and North Africa. Under those circumstances...

 

[MerryPrankster]

how possible is it for the communist to come to power but not the stalinists?

There were Trotskyists in Spain too.

 

[The Ubbergeek]

As he noted, there is different brands of communists,....

 

[Bismarck1]

I know there were trotskyist in spain at the time of the civil war. how Would a democratic or communist spain help the allies in ww2 i?

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Nor were all, or even the majority, of the Republican movement actually communists of any variety.

 

[Roman Guy]

Well the Communists in my opinion would eventually get control of Spain because the Soviets had helped them so much in the Spanish Civil War. Maybe the Socalists would get into power instead.

 

[Roman Guy]

I know there were trotskyist in spain at the time of the civil war. how Would a democratic or communist spain help the allies in ww2 i?

Hey Bismark are you on the Paradox Forums? I am on them, and my name is Anarcho Liberal. There is a Bismark1 there too, so I am just checking.

 

[Bismarck1]

correct roman guy this is the same bismarck1 that is on the pardox forums. would the allies need england to do opperation overlord if they have spain just to the south of france?

 

[Tocomocho]

Adding to that the historical Spanish ambition to rule a united Iberia.

Ah, the classical Portuguese paranoia.

I don't think that the Republicans would try anything against Portugal. In OTL the Francoist like much more the idea although the Portuguese were a friendly fascist nation. However, I agree that Salazar would feel threatened by a victoriuos II Spanish Republic and he would support a nazi invasion of Spain. But, on the other hand, a real alliance with the nazis probably means an inmediate British attack over the Açores, Madeira and all the Portuguese colonies in Africa and Asia. That it's the main point. Salazar probably would choose to play the role of OTL Franco: official neutrality, but many Portuguese "volunteers" in the Spanish front and secret negotiations above Olivença/Olivenza and little more.

Other changes would, perhaps, be the a appearence of other indepedent countries under facist/nazi regimes in the Peninsula: The Basque Country, Catalunia, and Canary and Balear islands and maybe, even, Granada in the southern part of the Peninsula.

Catalonia and the Basque country were firm supporters of the Spanish republicanism, and the other regions that you mentioned never had a nationalist movement at all. The only possible croatian-like case would be a carlist/fascist Basque state centered in Navarre rather than Vizcaya.

 

[ruisramos]

Ah, the classical Portuguese paranoia.

Yah, you bet. But do remember that it has been that paranoia that has been the corner stone of the Portuguese independence and identity for the past 863 years.

Now-a-days all the countries in Europe are part of the Grössere Deutches Europäiche Bundesrepublik!

 

[Max Sinister]

You'll probably be surprised to find out that many people in Germany dislike the "Größere Deutsche Europäische Bundesrepublik" either, finding it too expensive for Germany to subsidize all those other states.

 

[ruisramos]

You'll probably be surprised to find out that many people in Germany dislike the "Größere Deutsche Europäische Bundesrepublik" either, finding it too expensive for Germany to subsidize all those other states.

You bet! I was not saying that the German people supports or takes any personnal advantage of it. The only advantage is more profit for the big multinational corporations by having a bigger marketplace to feed upon.

 

[Condottiero]

Catalonia and the Basque country were firm supporters of the Spanish republicanism, and the other regions that you mentioned never had a nationalist movement at all. The only possible croatian-like case would be a carlist/fascist Basque state centered in Navarre rather than Vizcaya.

No, they were not. The basques surrendered to Franco almost without fight and offered cooperation and the Catalonians had tried to secede in 1934, and in fact were hostile to the Central Republican Government.

 

[Karlos]

You are right that there was a strong nationalist movement in Catalonia, but also a strong anarchist and communist movement among catalan workers. All of them fought bravely for the Republic until the last days, as they knew perfectly that the Republic had to survive if they were going to see any of their wishes -independence, social justice- fulfilled. The differences between the republican forces were one of the main reasons of the Republic's failure, but basques and catalans were among the fiercest enemies of Franco, as was showed after the war.

 

[Brandonazz]

What if the Two sides broke apart into two different countries? Check out this btw.

 

[CCA]

What if the Two sides broke apart into two different countries? Check out this btw.

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!111ONONNONONONEONEONEONESHIFTKEY!!!

 

[KJPedersen]

There was an agreement between the Anarchists and left-wing of the Socialist Workers' Party that if the Republic survived, they'd work to implement a program known as "Federal Socialism". You would have seen agricultural communes alongside freehold farms. In industry and commerce, you would have seen quite a few factories and various stores run by a committee of workers. The Spanish Republic would probably have been, largely, a bourgeios republic with certain socialist institutions, and a few anarchist communes.

 

[Goldstein]

My theory is that if the Republicans win early, Spain stays democratic.

If the Republicans win late, Spain becomes a Communist dictatorship. I read somewhere that at the end of the war, the Republican army had political commissars--not a good sign.

I totally agree.

I wonder if a defeated Franco can withdraw into North Africa and set up a "traditional Spain in exile." IIRC his Arab troops all but worshiped him, so it could be done.

I'm not sure if that could be done, but it would make a very interesting scenario.

 

[Goldstein]

What if the Two sides broke apart into two different countries? Check out this btw.

Why the republican side changes his flag to the monarchist/nationalist one?

Why the nationalist side use the phalangist flag?

Interesting idea, thought.

 

[Goldstein]

Ah, the classical Portuguese paranoia.

What the portuguese think about the spaniards...

...is very different from what the spaniards think about the portuguese.