True, but things like genocide might put a damper on some of the good athletes.Elidor said:Well, The Alps will still provide ample training grounds, and since it is one state, there'd be less bureaucratic restrictions.
That may have happened even without Nazis, I suppose...Elidor said:hmm... I am not assuming a Third Reich victory here. I am just assuming the possibilty of a union-by-mutual-consent between the two nations.
Why do you think the Austrofascists took power, though? Fear of enforced union... it's not like all the Austrians desparately wanted an Anschluss...Wendell said:That may have happened even without Nazis, I suppose...
True. Or, the Central Powers win World War I, but Austria collapses shortly thereafter.Elidor said:Well, it could have happened due to some far off POD... like "Grossdeutschland founded in 1848"
Why would a Central Powers victory kill Austria-Hungary? It would strengthen the faith in the monarchy, not weaken it...Wendell said:True. Or, the Central Powers win World War I, but Austria collapses shortly thereafter.
The same reason Russia fell despite being on the winning side. Austria was seriously losing until Germans showed up to defend it. Everyone knew by 1916 that Austria was playing second (or third) fiddle to Germany.Imajin said:Why would a Central Powers victory kill Austria-Hungary? It would strengthen the faith in the monarchy, not weaken it...
Austria was not seriously losing- they did rather well in the Balkans, and held against Italy... how many powers can survive alone (they did get German help) being attacked from three sides? (Italy, Balkans, Russia)Wendell said:The same reason Russia fell despite being on the winning side. Austria was seriously losing until Germans showed up to defend it. Everyone knew by 1916 that Austria was playing second (or third) fiddle to Germany.
Austria did what it could, I do not dispute that, but the war was too costly for Austria, and it could be argued that the Germans were fighting on three or more fronts.Imajin said:Austria was not seriously losing- they did rather well in the Balkans, and held against Italy... how many powers can survive alone (they did get German help) being attacked from three sides? (Italy, Balkans, Russia)
Also note that Hungary played a major role in feeding Austria and Germany.
Yes, World War 1 was an unenviable situation for the Central Powers... (especially the Ottomans- what were they thinking?) though that wasn't the plan, Italy stabbed it's allies in the back, for one...Wendell said:Austria did what it could, I do not dispute that, but the war was too costly for Austria, and it could be argued that the Germans were fighting on three or more fronts.
It hadn't collapsed in the same way that Austria did or would.Imajin said:Yes, World War 1 was an unenviable situation for the Central Powers... (especially the Ottomans- what were they thinking?) though that wasn't the plan, Italy stabbed it's allies in the back, for one...
Note that Germany collapsed after the war as well, but no one calls the German Empire unstable...
Well, the German Navy incited the revolts in Germany, while the Imperial and Royal Navy remained loyal throughout the war...Wendell said:It hadn't collapsed in the same way that Austria did or would.
True, but that was partly because the German navy had never actually been used until it was too late.Imajin said:Well, the German Navy incited the revolts in Germany, while the Imperial and Royal Navy remained loyal throughout the war...
And one could argue that those did more harm than good, bringing the US into the war (sure, the Zimmerman Telegram was one thing, but would the US have even been interested if not for earlier attacks like the Lusitania (though the Lusitania was carrying arms))Wendell said:(Excepting the U-boats, of course)
I would argue that the war was lost for the Germans (due to later promptintg U.S. involvement) when they first ceased the "unrestricted submarine warfare."Imajin said:And one could argue that those did more harm than good, bringing the US into the war (sure, the Zimmerman Telegram was one thing, but would the US have even been interested if not for earlier attacks like the Lusitania (though the Lusitania was carrying arms))
Othniel said:Probably splinter into two states...Bavaria and East Germany. I'm not so sure about it, but still the difference in culture without the Soviet Union to hold it up, may cause some striff and eventual division.
I disagree. Why would Austria give up Salzburg to Bavaria? Why would the Salzburgers prefer to be in Bavaria? Baden-Wurrtemburg is possible, though probably not just Wurrtemburg.Chingo360 said:Bavaria would have acquired Wuertemberg and Salzburg as well then i think