PC: North and South America One Nation

[British Republic]

But not with Mexico. Annexing that takes decades, piece by piece. If the PODs are right they would keep it.

By the time they get involved in the War of Independence in New Spain (30+ years after the Bill of Rights), they are not going to be too many issues with Catholics or to a extent mixed-race Spanish Speaking Catholics.

Even if they do have a issue with extent mixed-race Spanish Speaking Catholics, "All of Mexico" is very likely to happen because the slavers are going to be more desperate than in OTL to maintain the balance of power.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

By the time they get involved in the War of Independence in New Spain (30+ years after the Bill of Rights), they are not going to be too many issues with Catholics or to a extent mixed-race Spanish Speaking Catholics.

Even if they do have a issue with extent mixed-race Spanish Speaking Catholics, "All of Mexico" is very likely to happen because the slavers are going to be more desperate than in OTL to maintain the balance of power.

I didn't realize you posted there a while ago. Didn't notice.

Anyways, the South still opposed annexing any territories with non-Caucasian majorities. John C. Calhoun once expressed this sort of feeling. Taking the lesser populated areas of Mexico would have been more preferred.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

The closest thing I can think of, that doesn't involve *too* much handwavium to be borderline ASB, would be a mini-TL concept I did called the "Trans-American Federation", with a POD right around the start of the revolution, and by the year 2000, encompassed most of North America(with the exception of northern Canada, with much of it's population clustered around the Peace River Country), and a large portion of South America, including most of Argentina. And here it is:

All of Canada would have been American. The land would be too inhospitable for major human settlement.

An American Brazil could be possible if a foreign power was still controlling it. But just my opinion.

 

[British Republic]

I didn't realize you posted there a while ago. Didn't notice.

Anyways, the South still opposed annexing any territories with non-Caucasian majorities. John C. Calhoun once expressed this sort of feeling. Taking the lesser populated areas of Mexico would have been more preferred.

The South would be far more worried about losing the balance of power to be concerned about how much of Mexico they wanted to take. Besides after Gran Columbia joins the US, they would find that the ruling elite is quite similar to them.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

The South would be far more worried about losing the balance of power to be concerned about how much of Mexico they wanted to take. Besides after Gran Columbia joins the US, they would find that the ruling elite is quite similar to them.

But the linguistic difference. That would cause issues.

 

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Maybe some kind of steady, unbelievably slow (talking centuries) process of unification in a supranational union?

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Maybe some kind of steady, unbelievably slow (talking centuries) process of unification in a supranational union?

If Spanish held on to South America by the 1890s and the USA won that in a war, maybe.

 

[Daniwani]

Hispanics definitely won't have the same rights as wasps for a long time.

"Hispanics" are not an ethnic group, and white Hispanics, Catholicism aside, well certainly be seen as white; especially in a pan-american nation where Spanish speakers begin to outnumber English speakers.

Anyways best chances for this are Manifest Destiny gone rouge, Iberian union plays its cards like a pro or Empire of Britain in America (no I don't mean code goose sealion style). All are extremely unlikely.

 

[chornedsnorkack]

How about, Spaniards successfully thwart English violations of Tordesillas treaty?

Any TL where the Jamestown colony of 1607...1610 duly fails and joins French Florida (1562...1565) and Roanoke Colony (1587...1587) in wastebasket of history... and additional Spanish settlements north of St. Augustine preclude further English attempts?

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

"Hispanics" are not an ethnic group, and white Hispanics, Catholicism aside, well certainly be seen as white; especially in a pan-american nation where Spanish speakers begin to outnumber English speakers.

Anyways best chances for this are Manifest Destiny gone rouge, Iberian union plays its cards like a pro or Empire of Britain in America (no I don't mean code goose sealion style). All are extremely unlikely.

The only issue I see is Brazil: how would that enter the union?

 

[British Republic]

But the linguistic difference. That would cause issues.

In the proposal I suggested Cuba is part of BNA, which then joins the United States from say one. Thus the Declaration of Independence is signed by Spanish Speakers.

Anyway for 20-30 years Gran Columbia is a Protectorate of the USA before formally joining the Union.

Maybe some kind of steady, unbelievably slow (talking centuries) process of unification in a supranational union?

The actual process of going from the formation to the United States in the 1770s to taking control of the entire Americas would at worst 150 years.

The only issue I see is Brazil: how would that enter the union?

This is how:

The question of slavery leads the slaver regions to break off and form the CSA, because of the numerical disadvantages they have over the remaining USA they soon faced defeat. Britain and France however had concerns about the rise of the United States, so to put down a potential rival they end up backing the CSA, this in turn encourages Russia to make the most of that potential chance to take Constantinople.

Thus there is a world war and eventually the Americans defeat the Brazilians (and take the Northern Part of the country), France, Spain and Britain (who lose their Caribbean Colonies, Newfoundland, British Guinea and Upper Peru).

Eventually there is another war between Britain and Brazil later on which eventually results in the annexation of the remainder of British South America and Brazil (considering the British tried to breakup the United States, the latter is not keen on them remaining in the continent), they may or may not take Australia/New Zealand as well.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

In the proposal I suggested Cuba is part of BNA, which then joins the United States from say one. Thus the Declaration of Independence is signed by Spanish Speakers.

Anyway for 20-30 years Gran Columbia is a Protectorate of the USA before formally joining the Union.



The actual process of going from the formation to the United States in the 1770s to taking control of the entire Americas would at worst 150 years.



This is how:

How would Gran Colombia and Mexico enter the union? The government wouldn't want to be marginalized by the Catholics. If Spain still held South America and won it in an ATL Spanish-American War that I believe is a more plausible option. But in OTl they would have formed their own identity.

 

[British Republic]

How would Gran Colombia and Mexico enter the union? The government wouldn't want to be marginalized by the Catholics. If Spain still held South America and won it in an ATL Spanish-American War that I believe is a more plausible option. But in OTl they would have formed their own identity.

As you know the Napoleonic Wars in Spain triggered the independence movements in Latin America in OTL. ITTL you can add to that Britain invading RDP and taking control of that. Both those events trigger the Wars of Independence in Spainish South America.

The Americans meanwhile are unhappy that the British are playing the colonialist in their backyard, not only that but the likes of Bolivar have been visiting Cuba (A Catholic Spanish Speaking State of the US) and asking themsevles "I think I would like some of that"

Thus America ultimately decides to back the Spainish Revolutionaries and gets involved in the struggles in New Spain, Gran Columbia and maybe parts of Peru. Because of this united struggle the newly liberated states of Mexico and Gran Coloumbia decide to form close ties with the USA which leads to Protectorate Status and in 20-30 years statehood.

Thus rather than establish themsevles as seperate from the US from the independence movements onward they have close bonds with the USA.

As for the issues of Anti-Catholism, you do relalise that English, French and Spainish Speaking Catholics have signed the DoI ITTL and thus any issues with Catholics are addressed there and then.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

As you know the Napoleonic Wars in Spain triggered the independence movements in Latin America in OTL. ITTL you can add to that Britain invading RDP and taking control of that. Both those events trigger the Wars of Independence in Spainish South America.

The Americans meanwhile are unhappy that the British are playing the colonialist in their backyard, not only that but the likes of Bolivar have been visiting Cuba (A Catholic Spanish Speaking State of the US) and asking themsevles "I think I would like some of that"

Thus America ultimately decides to back the Spainish Revolutionaries and gets involved in the struggles in New Spain, Gran Columbia and maybe parts of Peru. Because of this united struggle the newly liberated states of Mexico and Gran Coloumbia decide to form close ties with the USA which leads to Protectorate Status and in 20-30 years statehood.

Thus rather than establish themsevles as seperate from the US from the independence movements onward they have close bonds with the USA.

As for the issues of Anti-Catholism, you do relalise that English, French and Spainish Speaking Catholics have signed the DoI ITTL and thus any issues with Catholics are addressed there and then.

Britain tried invading Spanish Argentina, but failed. So they are capable of failing any invasion on Spanish South America. Oh, and repelling them on strengthens the independence resolve.

 

[British Republic]

Britain tried invading Spanish Argentina, but failed. So they are capable of failing any invasion on Spanish South America. Oh, and repelling them on strengthens the independence resolve.

There have been various threads in AH that have claimed that it is possible for Britain to suceed in taking RDP. It is not like the Spainish can send more forces from Spain to deal with that.

I agree it boosts independence resolve but that does not prevent incresing their ties to America after the latter helping to liberate them.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

There have been various threads in AH that have claimed that it is possible for Britain to suceed in taking RDP. It is not like the Spainish can send more forces from Spain to deal with that.

I agree it boosts independence resolve but that does not prevent incresing their ties to America after the latter helping to liberate them.

Well it still doesn't mean they want to be part of the USA.

 

[British Republic]

Well it still doesn't mean they want to be part of the USA.

Considering that America helped them give independence? Remember that this is very early days on the question of national identity.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Considering that America helped them give independence? Remember that this is very early days on the question of national identity.

Give them independence? That's exactly the point!

Plus, I made a thread named Bigger America Plot and the last I shared your views they were shotgunned.

 

[Socrates]

There's no way Cuba can join the USA on independence. They would quickly be blockaded by the Royal Navy during the war and kept after it. And there's not a damn thing the Americans can do about it. Even if France or Spain somehow grabbed the place, they'll keep it in a peace deal rather than give it to the US.

 

[British Republic]

There's no way Cuba can join the USA on independence. They would quickly be blockaded by the Royal Navy during the war and kept after it. And there's not a damn thing the Americans can do about it. Even if France or Spain somehow grabbed the place, they'll keep it in a peace deal rather than give it to the US.

The Royal Navy is also being used in Nova Scotia, NFL, the Carribean ans the 13 colonies, not only that but they also have to use the British Army in Cuba as well while also using them elsewhere in BNA.

Would they have the army and navy resources to completely defeat them in Cuba?