No Spanish Civil War in 1936 (my new Timeline)
- Thread starter Dr. Strangelove
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please no i need to see how world war two ends really and the post war world so bad
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
It's not dead, but final months of college + writer's block make a bad combination. Besides, my computer crashed last month and lost a couple of months' worth of notes and updates. The updates are here, but not the notes.
Hope you can recover the notes soon, and good luck with finishing college!
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
The good news are, I managed to get all my data back, including my notes. The bad news, I am smack in the middle of finals, so there won't be another update in at least several weeks.
Goldstein
Banned
The good news are, I managed to get all my data back, including my notes. The bad news, I am smack in the middle of finals, so there won't be another update in at least several weeks.
Good luck, Sir. Not only I hope you do it well, I hope someday I'll visit a famous landmark with your signature. Nice to know your work wasn't lost after all.
Excellent!The good news are, I managed to get all my data back, including my notes. The bad news, I am smack in the middle of finals, so there won't be another update in at least several weeks.
Winston Smith
Banned
Does the aforementioned German Confederation include Austria?
And would it be accurate to describe Spanish Trotskyism as capitalist friendly, democrat OTL Trotskyism?
And would it be accurate to describe Spanish Trotskyism as capitalist friendly, democrat OTL Trotskyism?
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
Nope. They're going to strip Germany from the Saar and border areas with the Netherlands, so they certainly won't allow it to keep Austria. German Confederation is mostly a fancy name for Germany, used to emphasize several political arrangements.
However, with surviving fascist Italy still around, the allies may end wishing they hadn't allowed an independent Austria...
Not in theory, but most likely in practice.
Indeed. Makes me wonder if Austria fell into Italian hands because they conquered it from Germany (thus joining the Allies) or if it was simply granted independence by the Allies after the war and gradually fell under Italian influence. The latter sounds unlikely, given the fact that Austria was occupied like Germany was for a period lasting ten years IOTL.
Of course, if fascism falls, the Austrians might have a tendency to join Germany after all since independence will be associated with the (relative) horrors of fascism they have just lived through. Some might think that an independent Austria will have to fall into tolitarianism and foreign influence to survive, and that joining Germany will be the better option. Of course, that is all in the hands of the author, and it depends on what the final fate of the fascist sphere of influence will be.
Of course, if fascism falls, the Austrians might have a tendency to join Germany after all since independence will be associated with the (relative) horrors of fascism they have just lived through. Some might think that an independent Austria will have to fall into tolitarianism and foreign influence to survive, and that joining Germany will be the better option. Of course, that is all in the hands of the author, and it depends on what the final fate of the fascist sphere of influence will be.
Goldstein
Banned
Bump.
Jorge Semprún (1923-2011), Great Independence War hero and 9th president of the Spanish Republic -or a Holocaust survivor and exiled writer who would become minister of culture in the late 80s, according to a weird TL- passed away yesterday of natural causes. May he rest in peace.
Jorge Semprún (1923-2011), Great Independence War hero and 9th president of the Spanish Republic -or a Holocaust survivor and exiled writer who would become minister of culture in the late 80s, according to a weird TL- passed away yesterday of natural causes. May he rest in peace.
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Dr. Strangelove
Banned
Slowly working on a new update while I deal with the end-of-college hangovers and moving back to my parents'.
Huzzah! Wonderful news, Doc.Slowly working on a new update while I deal with the end-of-college hangovers and moving back to my parents'.
Dr. Strangelove
Banned
Assuming someone is still reading this, and with apologies for the much-longer-than-usual hiatus:
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From War in the Pacific, 1937-1945, by Tomás Clancy Rebollo, Ed. Cuesta, Madrid, 1992[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Operation Overlord, or, as it was privately known in Monty's circle, the Great Empire Offensive, had begun in February 18, in the third anniversary of the japanese attack. By the beginning of March, against the continuing pressure of Montgomery's Army of Burma from the West and the Chinese National Army from the North, Japanese position in Burma had collapsed. The harshest battles were fought around Meiktila in central Burma, whose garrison still resisted when Motgomery's forces began to enter Siam. However, japanese forces in Central Burma did not stand a chance once Rangoon had been liberated in June 1943, and soon began a rout toward Siam. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...advancing from the bridgehead held around Rangoon, whose port installations had been rebuilt during the past six months, the XXXIII Indian corps crossed the siamese border through the Three Pagodas pass in March 14. With the japanese suffering from a desperate lack of manpower[1] and the siamese undertrained, badly armed and with low morale, allied forces began their advance towards Bangkok and the central siamese plain. While the Northern Army Group comprising mostly chinese and american forces tried to advance through the impossible terrain of northern Burma to try and reach Chiang Mai, the bulk of Montgomery's forces made a dash for Bangkok (Battle of the River Kwai, March 1944)...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Siam had never been Japan's most enthusiastic ally. Japanese behaviour towards the country, treating it like a colony when it was supposed to be an ally, did not help matters. Siamese resentment against the japanese could only grow, and surprisingly, the western invasion of Siam -the first in its long history- did not, as the japanese authorities expected, galvanize the siamese against the western invaders. On the contrary, when news of Montgomery's advance through the Kwai River valley arrived to Bangkok, the japanese were seen as the main culprits of this first violation of Siam's territory. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1]Guess where the bulk of the poor sods who invaded and got killed in Australia came from. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Plaek Phibulsonggram never got to meet Buenaventura Durruti. What could be more different than the anarchist bankrobber turned politician, and the strict army official turned totalitarian dictator; one from a new republic in the West, the other from an old kingdom in the East? In the long years in prison after the end of the war, however, Phibulsonggram would soon claim to whoever wanted to hear him, that they were much alike, the only difference being that they had ended -by chance, by fate, by karma- in opposite fields in the great struggle. Both had shared an uncanny ability to be in the right place and moment, a gift for marrying ideology and pragmatism, and twin obsessions to modernize their countries, at any cost. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Phibulsonggram had been a part of the 1932 coup because he thought best for Siam to end the absolute monarchy. He sent the king to exile in 1935 because he thought it best. He set up a fascist state with him as leader because he thought it best for Siam. He allied with the japanese in 1940 because he thought it best to be friends with the eventual victor and Asian hegemon. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Then, at the end of 1942 he saw how japanese forces were repelled in Burma and destroyed in a quixotic enterprise in Australia. Now, at the beginning of 1944, the japanese are in retreat in all fronts and the british have entered thai territory. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]He knows what is best for Thailand. [/FONT]
Sikh troops advance through a rice paddy in central Thailand, March 1944
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From: Empire’s last Hurrah. The war in Southeastern Asia, 1942-1945. Joseph Billings, Oxford University Press, 1984.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...covert talks between siamese and british officials began in Rangoon in March 12. Three days later, while allied troops kept pouring into Thailand and a british task force landed unopposed in Phuket, the Thai dictator Phibulsonggram announced in a radioed message that Thailand had signed an armistice with the British Empire in representation of the United Nations. Combats between thai and japanese troops broke out in Bangkok that afternoon... [/FONT]
…[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It still took a couple of days for Thailand to formally declare war on Japan – a formality by that point, since combats all over the country were widespread and japanese troops were already pouring from Malaya and occupied Indochina. The japanese, however, knew that Siam was lost: despite having a good chance to reinforce their position in the country via amphibious landings using troops from Singapore or Philippines, japanese command decided, with grim determination, that those resources would be better spent elsewhere; to the chagrin of allied planners who had counted on Siam being able to draw away many needed japanese troops and ships from Singapore and Manila. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...while Northern Siam dissolved on a quagmire of japanese, chinese and siamese troops, the south soon fell to the allies, with the Indian Corps entering Bangkok unopposed in March 31. By mid-April, the battle lines would already be set, with the southern half of the country in allied hands, and the northern half still under japanese occupation...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...the British were eager to exploit the siamese campaign as a decisive success, but a more careful analysis suggests otherwise. The capture of Bangkok did not put China or the Philippines anywhere nearer from the allies, as it would still be impossible for naval forces to just bypass Singapore. With his supply lines severely stretched from Rangoon through the hellish terrain of the siamese-burmese border, only the fact that Siam was now an ally prevented him from retreating back to Burma. The first phase of Overlord had been victorious on the terrain, but not so much on the strategic aspect, since the japanese had not bitten their bait and refused to expose Singapore. A bigger bait would be needed...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...less than a year after the change of leadership in both the US and UK, the invasion of Java exposed the cracks that had developed in the relationship between both powers, both in political and military matters. British apologists blame Wallace's idealist antiimperialism and his anglophobia; while american commenters, even acknowledging Eden's diplomatic skills, point out that he could not understand that, in the Pacific Theater, it was Britain who had to follow America's steps, and not the other way. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In the military terrain, the invasion of Java was seen by the americans as a costly diversion from what they saw as the main push through the central pacific into Japan. During the last year, and specially after the fall of Guadalcanal in July 1943 and the conquest of the Marshall Islands during the second half of the year[1], the americans had pressed towards an advance toward Japan's Home Islands. Once they fell, the rest of the Empire would follow. Only the Philippines were considered as a possible diversion once the Marianas had been liberated. In this mindset, Britain and Australia's commitment to invading South East Asia began to be seen by the americans as a waste of time, men and resources. For the british, however, invading Java would act as a perfect way to force the japanese fleet out of Singapore and ease what was rightfully perceived as a tough battle. They also argued that, by forcing Japan to send reinforcements to the undermanned southern area of their Empire, they would make their position in the Home Islands weaker...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...politically, Java was the first stage of the divergences that would plague angloamerican relationships in upcoming decades: The british did not want to accept an independent East Indies after the war; while Wallace did not want to hear about a restoration of Dutch rule. While Soekarno had collaborated with the japanese, the americans were willing to accept him, if only as a transitional figure toward a friendly, non-tainted by collaborationism indonesian government. To the british, Soekarno was a liability, not only as a japanese collaborator, but specially as a charismatic figure for nationalists to rally after the war. It is true that his death at the hands of SAS commandoes in March 28 1944 was intended (and succesful) in helping the invasion of Java by creating chaos among indonesian forces, but...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Soekarno[2], born Kusno Sosrodiharjo (1901-1944). His murder in 1944 would make him a martyr of Indonesian nationalism. Fater of the United Indonesia idea, he is revered by Javanese irredentists and despised by others in the East Indies. In recent years, his collaboration with japanese occupiers in sending thousands of East Indians to forced labor under the japanese has made him a more controversial figure. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1]Yes, that's all I'm going to write about the Central Pacific Theater during 1943 and 1944. There's only so much you can write creatively about amphibious landings in godforsaken atolls. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][2]The common indonesian spelling Sukarno would not have been standardized until 1947. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From War in the Pacific, 1937-1945, by Tomás Clancy Rebollo, Ed. Cuesta, Madrid, 1992[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Operation Overlord, or, as it was privately known in Monty's circle, the Great Empire Offensive, had begun in February 18, in the third anniversary of the japanese attack. By the beginning of March, against the continuing pressure of Montgomery's Army of Burma from the West and the Chinese National Army from the North, Japanese position in Burma had collapsed. The harshest battles were fought around Meiktila in central Burma, whose garrison still resisted when Motgomery's forces began to enter Siam. However, japanese forces in Central Burma did not stand a chance once Rangoon had been liberated in June 1943, and soon began a rout toward Siam. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...advancing from the bridgehead held around Rangoon, whose port installations had been rebuilt during the past six months, the XXXIII Indian corps crossed the siamese border through the Three Pagodas pass in March 14. With the japanese suffering from a desperate lack of manpower[1] and the siamese undertrained, badly armed and with low morale, allied forces began their advance towards Bangkok and the central siamese plain. While the Northern Army Group comprising mostly chinese and american forces tried to advance through the impossible terrain of northern Burma to try and reach Chiang Mai, the bulk of Montgomery's forces made a dash for Bangkok (Battle of the River Kwai, March 1944)...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...Siam had never been Japan's most enthusiastic ally. Japanese behaviour towards the country, treating it like a colony when it was supposed to be an ally, did not help matters. Siamese resentment against the japanese could only grow, and surprisingly, the western invasion of Siam -the first in its long history- did not, as the japanese authorities expected, galvanize the siamese against the western invaders. On the contrary, when news of Montgomery's advance through the Kwai River valley arrived to Bangkok, the japanese were seen as the main culprits of this first violation of Siam's territory. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1]Guess where the bulk of the poor sods who invaded and got killed in Australia came from. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Plaek Phibulsonggram never got to meet Buenaventura Durruti. What could be more different than the anarchist bankrobber turned politician, and the strict army official turned totalitarian dictator; one from a new republic in the West, the other from an old kingdom in the East? In the long years in prison after the end of the war, however, Phibulsonggram would soon claim to whoever wanted to hear him, that they were much alike, the only difference being that they had ended -by chance, by fate, by karma- in opposite fields in the great struggle. Both had shared an uncanny ability to be in the right place and moment, a gift for marrying ideology and pragmatism, and twin obsessions to modernize their countries, at any cost. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Phibulsonggram had been a part of the 1932 coup because he thought best for Siam to end the absolute monarchy. He sent the king to exile in 1935 because he thought it best. He set up a fascist state with him as leader because he thought it best for Siam. He allied with the japanese in 1940 because he thought it best to be friends with the eventual victor and Asian hegemon. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Then, at the end of 1942 he saw how japanese forces were repelled in Burma and destroyed in a quixotic enterprise in Australia. Now, at the beginning of 1944, the japanese are in retreat in all fronts and the british have entered thai territory. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]He knows what is best for Thailand. [/FONT]
Sikh troops advance through a rice paddy in central Thailand, March 1944
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]From: Empire’s last Hurrah. The war in Southeastern Asia, 1942-1945. Joseph Billings, Oxford University Press, 1984.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...covert talks between siamese and british officials began in Rangoon in March 12. Three days later, while allied troops kept pouring into Thailand and a british task force landed unopposed in Phuket, the Thai dictator Phibulsonggram announced in a radioed message that Thailand had signed an armistice with the British Empire in representation of the United Nations. Combats between thai and japanese troops broke out in Bangkok that afternoon... [/FONT]
…[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]It still took a couple of days for Thailand to formally declare war on Japan – a formality by that point, since combats all over the country were widespread and japanese troops were already pouring from Malaya and occupied Indochina. The japanese, however, knew that Siam was lost: despite having a good chance to reinforce their position in the country via amphibious landings using troops from Singapore or Philippines, japanese command decided, with grim determination, that those resources would be better spent elsewhere; to the chagrin of allied planners who had counted on Siam being able to draw away many needed japanese troops and ships from Singapore and Manila. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...while Northern Siam dissolved on a quagmire of japanese, chinese and siamese troops, the south soon fell to the allies, with the Indian Corps entering Bangkok unopposed in March 31. By mid-April, the battle lines would already be set, with the southern half of the country in allied hands, and the northern half still under japanese occupation...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...the British were eager to exploit the siamese campaign as a decisive success, but a more careful analysis suggests otherwise. The capture of Bangkok did not put China or the Philippines anywhere nearer from the allies, as it would still be impossible for naval forces to just bypass Singapore. With his supply lines severely stretched from Rangoon through the hellish terrain of the siamese-burmese border, only the fact that Siam was now an ally prevented him from retreating back to Burma. The first phase of Overlord had been victorious on the terrain, but not so much on the strategic aspect, since the japanese had not bitten their bait and refused to expose Singapore. A bigger bait would be needed...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...less than a year after the change of leadership in both the US and UK, the invasion of Java exposed the cracks that had developed in the relationship between both powers, both in political and military matters. British apologists blame Wallace's idealist antiimperialism and his anglophobia; while american commenters, even acknowledging Eden's diplomatic skills, point out that he could not understand that, in the Pacific Theater, it was Britain who had to follow America's steps, and not the other way. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]In the military terrain, the invasion of Java was seen by the americans as a costly diversion from what they saw as the main push through the central pacific into Japan. During the last year, and specially after the fall of Guadalcanal in July 1943 and the conquest of the Marshall Islands during the second half of the year[1], the americans had pressed towards an advance toward Japan's Home Islands. Once they fell, the rest of the Empire would follow. Only the Philippines were considered as a possible diversion once the Marianas had been liberated. In this mindset, Britain and Australia's commitment to invading South East Asia began to be seen by the americans as a waste of time, men and resources. For the british, however, invading Java would act as a perfect way to force the japanese fleet out of Singapore and ease what was rightfully perceived as a tough battle. They also argued that, by forcing Japan to send reinforcements to the undermanned southern area of their Empire, they would make their position in the Home Islands weaker...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]...politically, Java was the first stage of the divergences that would plague angloamerican relationships in upcoming decades: The british did not want to accept an independent East Indies after the war; while Wallace did not want to hear about a restoration of Dutch rule. While Soekarno had collaborated with the japanese, the americans were willing to accept him, if only as a transitional figure toward a friendly, non-tainted by collaborationism indonesian government. To the british, Soekarno was a liability, not only as a japanese collaborator, but specially as a charismatic figure for nationalists to rally after the war. It is true that his death at the hands of SAS commandoes in March 28 1944 was intended (and succesful) in helping the invasion of Java by creating chaos among indonesian forces, but...[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Soekarno[2], born Kusno Sosrodiharjo (1901-1944). His murder in 1944 would make him a martyr of Indonesian nationalism. Fater of the United Indonesia idea, he is revered by Javanese irredentists and despised by others in the East Indies. In recent years, his collaboration with japanese occupiers in sending thousands of East Indians to forced labor under the japanese has made him a more controversial figure. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][1]Yes, that's all I'm going to write about the Central Pacific Theater during 1943 and 1944. There's only so much you can write creatively about amphibious landings in godforsaken atolls. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif][2]The common indonesian spelling Sukarno would not have been standardized until 1947. [/FONT]
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