NASA goes ahead with super-heavy Nova rockets: Impact on Space Commercialization?

Question though? Does the single-unit price compare to the Saturn-1 versus something like the Titan-III since we’re looking at a ‘reason’ to keep them in production.

The Saturn IB was close to twice the cost of a Titan III launch (though it also could launch more, the cost/kilo in orbit was still worse). Anything based on the F-1 engine is going to be even more expensive. The F-1 was just more expensive per kN of thrust than the H-1 was (the F-1 was pretty cost effective, since it had big economies of scale, but the H-1 was the star of US liquid fuel rocket engines as far as cost goes - it's cost/kN thrust was just amazing).

The F-1 can't compete on cost. Its selling point is the way it enables large, reliable rockets.

But the F-1 isn't that much more expensive. Adding maybe 1-2 million USD to the cost of a 50 million USD rocket isn't crippling. The real problem is that however one cuts this, more R&D work needs to be done to make a F-1 powered Saturn 1 equivalent than is required to upgrade the Saturn 1.

Getting a single-module rocket out of the Nova-A and Nova-B is just a potential way to get more out of the Nova production line. It's never going to be a primary selling point.

fasquardon
 
The Titan II and III were cheap for several reason
First high production number USAF tested the ICBM version with 81 Launches, in total 166 Titan II were build
While 108 Titan III were build, This pushed the production price down

The Saturn I and IB were build only 22 (plus two first stages)

Second 36 of those Titan III had cheap Large Solid Booster what increased there Payload with minimum price.

Third the Titan rocket was "less" problematic to launch as A Saturn IB
to it storable Propellant on problems the Rocket can simply wait on launch pad.
while Saturn IB has short launch window do liquid oxygen in Tanks, if something goes wrong the Rocket tanks has to depleted and rocket secured.
 
The Saturn IB was close to twice the cost of a Titan III launch (though it also could launch more, the cost/kilo in orbit was still worse). Anything based on the F-1 engine is going to be even more expensive. The F-1 was just more expensive per kN of thrust than the H-1 was (the F-1 was pretty cost effective, since it had big economies of scale, but the H-1 was the star of US liquid fuel rocket engines as far as cost goes - it's cost/kN thrust was just amazing).

The F-1 can't compete on cost. Its selling point is the way it enables large, reliable rockets.
The F-1 stage certainly can't compete on cost with the Titan first stages, but the J-2 module may not be as expensive as the historical S-IVB, which made up a massive fraction of the historical Saturn 1B cost. Cost reductions from production optimization on the S-IVB were estimated to enable about a 40-50% cost reduction on the S-IVB, IIRC, cutting about $8m off the $50m cost. The Instrument Unit (about 20% of the ~$48m flywaway Saturn IB IOTL, and ITTL more like 23% of the base $41m, and according to the Bellcom studies was looking at a ~80-90% reduction.

The J-2 modular assembly in this proposed vehicle is likely already production optimized, as assuming what I'm calling the Nova 177 configuration (7 F1 first stage, 7 J-2 second stage, 1 J2 third stage/EDS), 134 J-2 modules would be produced to build the same number and types of vehicles used in the OTL Apollo. There'd also be a cost advantage to using the Nova 11 (1x F-1 module, 1xJ-2 Saturn 1B equivalent) after standing down the Apollo missions, as the unflown Nova 177s (assuming there's one or two left over as IOTL) could be broken down to provide modules for another 7-14 vehicles at a cost of only a few million in the conversion hardware to let them fly as single modules. That lets you have several years of flight stock to launch while you do any cost improvements on new production like modified IUs, which could bring the vehicle cost down to something like $25-30m, which is very comparable to Titan on $/kg and has higher capability to support station flights.

Still, while this makes the Nova 11 slightly more attractive as a replacement for Saturn IB in comparison to the Titan III, as you say:
Getting a single-module rocket out of the Nova-A and Nova-B is just a potential way to get more out of the Nova production line. It's never going to be a primary selling point.
This is true even post-Apollo, as the main attraction in preserving Nova module production is likely much more about the ability to one day resume Nova multi-module vehicle production for large station or a new moon program than it's about "just" flying 20 tons to LEO for stations.
 
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The Titan II and III were cheap for several reason
First high production number USAF tested the ICBM version with 81 Launches, in total 166 Titan II were build
While 108 Titan III were build, This pushed the production price down

The Saturn I and IB were build only 22 (plus two first stages)

Second 36 of those Titan III had cheap Large Solid Booster what increased there Payload with minimum price.

Third the Titan rocket was "less" problematic to launch as A Saturn IB
to it storable Propellant on problems the Rocket can simply wait on launch pad.
while Saturn IB has short launch window do liquid oxygen in Tanks, if something goes wrong the Rocket tanks has to depleted and rocket secured.

What he said :) And in the end the Air Force at the time isn't going to fly no 'NASA-rocket' if they have any say about it and will actively campaign against any such idea (as they did OTL) with everything they have so...

Randy
 
The F-1 stage certainly can't compete on cost with the Titan first stages, but the J-2 module may not be as expensive as the historical S-IVB, which made up a massive fraction of the historical Saturn 1B cost. Cost reductions from production optimization on the S-IVB were estimated to enable about a 40-50% cost reduction on the S-IVB, IIRC, cutting about $8m off the $50m cost. The Instrument Unit (about 20% of the ~$48m flywaway Saturn IB IOTL, and ITTL more like 23% of the base $41m, and according to the Bellcom studies was looking at a ~80-90% reduction.

As I recall it really depended on how 'cheap' the "cheap-Chinese-Knockoff" S-IVB you wanted was :) Douglas was actually arguing going reusable but Bellcom's study and theirs... Well it depended on who's bias' you believed I suppose :)

The J-2 modular assembly in this proposed vehicle is likely already production optimized, as assuming what I'm calling the Nova 177 configuration (7 F1 first stage, 7 J-2 second stage, 1 J2 third stage/EDS), 134 J-2 modules would be produced to build the same number and types of vehicles used in the OTL Apollo. There'd also be a cost advantage to using the Nova 11 (1x F-1 module, 1xJ-2 Saturn 1B equivalent) after standing down the Apollo missions, as the unflown Nova 177s (assuming there's one or two left over as IOTL) could be broken down to provide modules for another 7-14 vehicles at a cost of only a few million in the conversion hardware to let them fly as single modules. That lets you have several years of flight stock to launch while you do any cost improvements on new production like modified IUs, which could bring the vehicle cost down to something like $25-30m, which is very comparable to Titan on $/kg and has higher capability to support station flights.

Still, while this makes the Nova 11 slightly more attractive as a replacement for Saturn IB in comparison to the Titan III, as you say:This is true even post-Apollo, as the main attraction in preserving Nova module production is likely much more about the ability to one day resume Nova multi-module vehicle production for large station or a new moon program than it's about "just" flying 20 tons to LEO for stations.

Yup, that's THE whole point in the end: keeping as much 'legacy' hardware for possible later use as possible. The 'problem' ends up being, (as per OTL) at the end of "Apollo" NASA is going to be asked NOT what they can save from Apollo but how they can reduce cost to orbit and the Nova isn't going to be anymore acceptable than the Saturn-V was as an answer.

Randy
 
What he said :) And in the end the Air Force at the time isn't going to fly no 'NASA-rocket' if they have any say about it and will actively campaign against any such idea (as they did OTL) with everything they have so...

And to be fair, making a rocket that could effectively meet both NASA and USAF needs is not so simple. I think it actually made sense for the USAF and NASA to have different rockets.

134 J-2 modules would be produced to build the same number and types of vehicles used in the OTL Apollo.

That's an excellent point. A 134 unit production run is pretty respectable for a rocket component. And its enough that you could see some appreciable production efficiencies pulling down cost a little.

If NASA opts for a Nova supported space station program (using the Nova-A/Nova 144 configuration to launch the actual stations and Nova 11s to launch crew and resupply), then that would be maybe another 30-40 J-2 modules over the 70s and another 28-36 F-1 modules. (Assuming 2 crew/resupply Nova 11 launches per year and 2-4 Nova 144 launches over the decade, depending on how many stations NASA gets.) That's a pretty respectable demand for modules, and that's just the space station program. You might also get some extra Nova 11s produced to support large satellite launches or large space probes.

Even without new technology, simple practice leading to reduced wastage and increased quality could bring the Nova 11 into a price range where it could compete rather nicely with the Titan III...

fasquardon
 
Whole lot of stuff about rockets, and nothing about payloads to go on them.

The idea being that NASA decides they can execute that many more missions and in our time OTL space commercialization might accelerate (substantially?). Plus it'd be nice to consider true interplanetary travel, even if the ship is akin to Botany Bay minus the cryostorage.
 
Whole lot of stuff about rockets, and nothing about payloads to go on them.

Yeah, and here lies the problem, what to launch with Nova Class Rocket ?

Space Station ? nice but expensive if you launch one per year into orbit...
A very Big Telescope ? yeah you do this one ever 10 years.
it would make more sense for Mars mission and Moon Base, that required production and Launches of Nova Class rockets.

It's has certain irony that Current SLS rocket of NASA has similar problems: finding a meaning and Payload to launch...
 
And to be fair, making a rocket that could effectively meet both NASA and USAF needs is not so simple. I think it actually made sense for the USAF and NASA to have different rockets.

Makes sense and makes political sense I'll point out are often not the same thing :) Eventually that's why the Shuttle was sold the way it was.

Randy
 
The idea being that NASA decides they can execute that many more missions and in our time OTL space commercialization might accelerate (substantially?). Plus it'd be nice to consider true interplanetary travel, even if the ship is akin to Botany Bay minus the cryostorage.

The problem is that in context it's actually likely NASA will launch LESS not more missions due to the cost of the Nova booster and operations. One of the reasons I keep pointing out a less frantic Space Race and no push for a Lunar mission might actually have been better all around since the 'original' plan was focused on getting medium payload access to LEO on a regular and rather "cheap" basis. As Michel notes the problem with a 'big' booster is you are constantly in need of 'big' payloads which you will launch rarely, at great expense when what you really want is to launch medium payloads on a regular basis.

Randy
 
The idea being that NASA decides they can execute that many more missions and in our time OTL space commercialization might accelerate (substantially?). Plus it'd be nice to consider true interplanetary travel, even if the ship is akin to Botany Bay minus the cryostorage.

If the Nova somehow derails the shuttle débâcle, which really disrupted the development and production of the smaller US rockets which the commercial sector needed, then maybe.

But most of the Nova designs don't really offer much to mission planners in the 1970s, indeed, most Nova designs are likely to be even more likely to be replaced by the shuttle.

And true interplanetary travel requires alot of work to identify risk factors and find solutions. The Apollo capsule was never more than a few days from Earth. A mission to even Venus or Mars, a human crew would need to be able to cope for months before they could return to Earth. That's alot more time for a problem to get worse in. I think if NASA had maintained Apollo levels of funding for 30 years or so, and followed up on the moon landings with a strong program of longer Lunar stays, space stations and robot probes to the rest of the solar system, they could perhaps have the experience to launch serious interplanetary expeditions a-la Mars Direct in the 90s. Now, such a serious space program would basically be akin to the US fighting a small war for 30 years, which is very difficult to sustain politically when Tommy's school has a leaking roof and crime is soaring in Chicago, etc. etc.

Of course, if you had the will to sustain such a large program for such a long time, then there'd be enough demand to keep the Nova (in whatever form it emerged from the design stages).

The US might be willing to commit so heavily to a space program in Earth-Moon space if the Soviets beat them to the Lunar landings. That's extremely hard to do without giving the Soviets outright miracles though.

And even if the Soviets do get their multiple miracles, if the US one-ups them and puts a Lunar base on the moon and maintains it for 10 years (for example), would the US necessarily be willing to continue that level of funding for long enough that they have the robust experience and data to seriously think about a Mars mission? Currently, after the ISS is closed down, it's looking unlikely that the US will be willing to fund a new space station. I think eventually, the space program would be scaled back (though it might succeed in doing some amazing things in the meantime and put mankind well in advance of where we are in OTL - I don't see any real paradigm shifts as being plausible though).

fasquardon
 
I was just reading this thread, and it occurred to me that something like the Nova-B e of pi mentioned would have the payload to take along more scientific instruments or to maaaybe land a lander near the poles of the moon. If that resulted in viable Lunar water resources being discovered in the 70s, that could lead to much more interest in going back to the moon in the 80s or 90s...

fasquardon
 
If the Nova somehow derails the shuttle débâcle, which really disrupted the development and production of the smaller US rockets which the commercial sector needed, then maybe.

But most of the Nova designs don't really offer much to mission planners in the 1970s, indeed, most Nova designs are likely to be even more likely to be replaced by the shuttle.

And true interplanetary travel requires alot of work to identify risk factors and find solutions. The Apollo capsule was never more than a few days from Earth. A mission to even Venus or Mars, a human crew would need to be able to cope for months before they could return to Earth. That's alot more time for a problem to get worse in. I think if NASA had maintained Apollo levels of funding for 30 years or so, and followed up on the moon landings with a strong program of longer Lunar stays, space stations and robot probes to the rest of the solar system, they could perhaps have the experience to launch serious interplanetary expeditions a-la Mars Direct in the 90s. Now, such a serious space program would basically be akin to the US fighting a small war for 30 years, which is very difficult to sustain politically when Tommy's school has a leaking roof and crime is soaring in Chicago, etc. etc.

Of course, if you had the will to sustain such a large program for such a long time, then there'd be enough demand to keep the Nova (in whatever form it emerged from the design stages).

The US might be willing to commit so heavily to a space program in Earth-Moon space if the Soviets beat them to the Lunar landings. That's extremely hard to do without giving the Soviets outright miracles though.

And even if the Soviets do get their multiple miracles, if the US one-ups them and puts a Lunar base on the moon and maintains it for 10 years (for example), would the US necessarily be willing to continue that level of funding for long enough that they have the robust experience and data to seriously think about a Mars mission? Currently, after the ISS is closed down, it's looking unlikely that the US will be willing to fund a new space station. I think eventually, the space program would be scaled back (though it might succeed in doing some amazing things in the meantime and put mankind well in advance of where we are in OTL - I don't see any real paradigm shifts as being plausible though).

fasquardon

THE problem is Apollo is very much NOT a very good, (in fact it's awful) way of going anywhere. As an example lets use Columbus. Keep in mind his GOAL was to find a "short-cut" to China, (contrary to popular belief it was generally known among the educated class' that the Earth was round, the issue with Columbus was nobody believed his 'math' was correct on how big it was and they were actually right and him wrong :) ) so he took this big, expensive expedition across the Atlantic*, then takes one (1) other person with him in a long-boat to the beach of an island. They then spend about two hours gathering beach sand and sea shells from that beach and ONLY that beach, hop back in the long-boat, head back the the ship and then back home... He essential repeats this, lets say, once more then loses the Santa Maria on a reed the third time but makes it back home, (no beach sand or sea shells this time) and does it all 4 more time with no finding gold, no contact with any natives, on and this may be important, never getting to China...

In reality he lost a ship on the FIRST voyage and never found spices, China or really anything of value EXCEPT some gold the native told him was abundant, (and they wore and used a 'ton' of it so there's some truth here) and common a bit further west. Take the gold away and likely Ol-Chris isn't going to be getting a 'second' let alone third voyage and probably is remembered as the guy they strung up in for scamming the Queen out of her jewels.

For Apollo we were in a hurry and built a program where you wasted "anything but time" to the point where it ate the budget and produced a VERY goal-oriented and focused program that while it had some impressive technology and accomplishments was found to be difficult at best to pivot to other uses. And it wasn't sustainable not planned to be so and it arguably has created a 'paradigm' both operationally and expectation-ally that has stymied actual space exploration to today. My opinion is that a 'bigger' or 'extended' Apollo would have simply crashed worse the OTL rather than lead to an expanded space program. What would have been better by far was a program that incrementally built on itself in self supporting step which is both what most people assumed would happen and is much closer to the original Apollo concept before it was given the explicit Lunar goal and short time table.
(I seem to be in the minority but hey it generates some good time lines so I won't complain TOO much :) )

The "Shuttle debacle" was pretty much inevitable after Apollo because it was both an attempt to 'step-back' and do things 'right' with less expensive and more regular access to space coupled with an organization that had been reshaped and restructured into requiring that any effort it made be a 'big' (and expensive) effort needing large public and political support spread over the whole nation. It was always delusional to somehow assume the latter could ever generate the former and pretty much every study said the outcome was going to be what we got. It had to be a 'big' program, therefore a 'big' vehicle, carrying a 'big' payload, supported by a 'big' network that rivaled the one that supported Apollo. All on less of a budget.

Of course most of us Space Cadet Space Advocates wholly approved of the 'big' shuttle because, (obviously :) ) that big cargo bay could carry a big passenger pod, (thus ensuring Challenger when it happens can't be used to say "Needs Another Seven Astronauts" see how helpful we were :) ) hauling hundreds of us to space every flight so we could live and work :)
Ya, going to upfront admit my 'logic' filter wasn't the greatest way back then :)

A medium sized launch capacity that was inexpensive and regular that COULD if needed be tasked with carrying a small personnel transport OR enhanced to carry larger payloads would have made vastly more sense but you can't get that from a 'national' space program. Not without some major policy shifts, far more public and political interest and probably NOT derived from anything OTL Apollo or TTL Nova.

That's NOT a given though I need to point out :)

Arguably any of the NOVA designs based on a reusable booster stage that could probably double as an SSTO, (Gommerrsal, NEXUS, Kraft-Erich Mini-Nexus S-1, etc, http://www.astronautix.com/s/ssto.html) is possibly a basis for a high use medium to heavy lift system but it's not clear if it would be built or used anymore frequently than Shuttle/STS was with all the likely-hood of failure and cost.

Randy
 
So I was considering what the Nova 11 could launch, based on the largest "hammerhead" fairings used in OTL (which are 1.8 times the diameter of the rocket fuselage), a single module wide Nova 11 would be able to launch payloads with a diameter up to 8.8 meters across.

Not at all bad... For comparison he Hubble Space Telescope has a mirror 2.5 meters in diameter.

fasquardon
 

marathag

Banned
So I was considering what the Nova 11 could launch, based on the largest "hammerhead" fairings used in OTL (which are 1.8 times the diameter of the rocket fuselage), a single module wide Nova 11 would be able to launch payloads with a diameter up to 8.8 meters across.

Not at all bad... For comparison he Hubble Space Telescope has a mirror 2.5 meters in diameter.

Aww, no 10M Orions....
 
Aww, no 10M Orions....

I was more thinking "aww, no 11 meter hubbles", since that's about what the Saturn IB could have managed with a hammerhead fairing...

But to be honest, 8.8m is probably more than enough for anything NASA is likely to get funding for.

fasquardon
 
Ok moving the “nuts-n-bolts” discussion of the Nova based Apollo and beyond back to this thread.

First lets “assume” a PoD of the “Juno-V” instead of just being ‘make-work’ to keep Von Braun’s team together actually has a bit more initial support in the development of an ‘off-the-shelf’ modular rocket cluster. (In other words they go with the initial concept of actually using Redstone and/or Jupiter stages and strapping them together) In testing the initial Redstone clusters of two, three and then four Redstones they find an effective means of making a modular “hex” beam and thrust structure system which translates over to later clustered Jupiter tests up to seven “modules” (six-around-one) which is tested and then launched with an ‘upper-stage’ of a quad-Redstone “tanks” and gimbled quad Jupiter engines. The Redstone tankage is dropped in favor of (initially) a single Centaur duel-engine stage which is itself replaced by a new-build single J2 powered hyrdrolox module stage.

Meanwhile the Air Force F1 engine program has been transferred to NASA and since the whole of the mission architecture let alone mode is still in flux but there is a clear need for a large and capable booster of ‘some’ type the decision is made to up-scale the Juno cluster to use F1 engines in the kerolox first stage, J2 engines in the modules of the second stage and RL-10s for any upper stages. (The decision isn’t clear yet if this will be monolithic or clustered modules)

In order to “get-to-testing” plans are drawn up to initially flight test what is called the “Nova 1-1” which is a single F1 and single J2 module with an option for using a dual-Centaur for boosted performance. It is envisioned that this will also become NASA’s main medium lift launch vehicle and given the ‘hex-beam’ and modular thrust structure it is planned to explore added ‘upgrade’ capabilities such as multiple solid booster rockets strapped to the first stage as well as one, two or three F1 booster modules. This last also corresponds to the minimum Lunar Nova configuration (four booster or three-around-one) and study and work proceed up to the biggest configuration which is the seven (six-around-one) F1 first stage, seven module J2 second stage and a still undecided upper stage configuration, either J2 or RL10 powered.

This is all before the mode or actual configuration is chosen. However certain operational issues must be addressed. Since the Nova can be configured in five or more module clusters at least part of the roof at Michoud must be raised and since the maximum possible configuration diameter is around 14.9m in the final assembly hall is raised to 15m. Construction of pads to handle the various configurations of the Nova launch vehicle are begun at Cape Canaveral but questions remain if they could handle a full-up launch of the biggest Nova design.

Douglas initially plans to build a new facility to handle construction and joining of the new hydrolox modules which are then to be transported by sea to Mississippi and Florida for testing and use. However it is instead decided to expand Michoud and Mississippi Test Facility to handle both integration and testing of both the first and second stage modules as well as constructing storage and maintenance facilities for the produced modules awaiting assembly.

So the “Apollo” production run of modules would see about 150 or so F1 modules, 134+ J2 modules, (assuming as e of pi does single are used for parking orbit and TLI injection) for the program with around two (2) of the full-up Lunar launchers later being broken down to provide launch vehicles for post-Apollo use while production and operations are transitioned over to new runs using more advanced engines and materials.

As part of this if e of pi is correct in assessing the cost savings to be had from optimized production of the modules it is less likely that a ‘clean-sheet’ design gets chosen for TTL’s “Shuttle” program. Because TTL already has a plausible requirement for continued manned operations, (Space Station and OTV) alternatives such as the Flax mini-shuttle becomes much more attractive. Cost-wise reuse will have advocates but NASA’s budget will be the primary factor in what gets built and launched and it would very much make sense to continue to build a slow but steady number of F1 and J2 modules than try to design, build and fly a “new” vehicle often enough to be economical. Enhancements such as large SRBs added to the basic Nova 1-1 might make sense or not depending on the situation.

Randy
 
you don't need to raise the roof at Michoud, if final assembly happen at KSC inside VAB or on Launch Pad
Since NASA builds those modules on lower cost as Saturn V, no political need to stop the production, if needed simply pause the production for a while

This modular system is elegant because NASA can adapt it to it's mission profile from Saturn C-1 to Saturn C-7 class payload
Means from 15 metric tons to 150 metric tons
with 12 modules first stage even more !
the UR-900 proposal had 12 Modules in first stage to bring 240 metric tons in Low
 
Michel,

I think in broad strokes you sum up why this idea is attractive--more capability than Saturn V, a replacement for Saturn IB that may be more cost-effective to continue in production, and a potential path to keeping capability for heavy lift in the United States alive after Apollo's lunar program burns out. I did want to take issue with this point, though:
you don't need to raise the roof at Michoud, if final assembly happen at KSC inside VAB or on Launch Pad
You certainly can choose to assemble the modules into full stages at KSC--certainly since that infrastructure is being custom-built, you can design it to be perfectly suited. However, the issue is that you'll never have a chance to test modules combined into their stages, and these modules are much more integrated as a stage than the cores of Falcon Heavy Delta IV Heavy, or Angara. Propellant feed lines, avionics, vernier engines, and more would be shared at the stage level, not the modular level. That means you really want to test the stages as an integrated unit before flight. That either means pad static fires, large static fire stands at the Cape, or assembly not at the Cape but at Stennis.

In that case, why not just take the hit to build the new building at Michoud? After all, any issues you find during assembly at Stennis may have to be corrected by shipping a bad module back to Michoud or by waiting for replacement components to be sent from there. Doing the integration on-site at Michoud as part of a combined integration procedure, makes a lot of sense from a process perspective. The new high-roof area needs to be only large enough for one or two assembly stands: maybe 50m long, 30-40m wide, and about 1.2% of the total Michoud Assembly Facility floor space. Doing static fires at the Cape poses the same problems, but with final assembly on the end of an even longer supply chain. It's not impossible, and industry today does do it fairly routinely, but I think it'd have to have better justification than "we didn't want to have to build a small new building at our otherwise-integrated production plant".
 
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you don't need to raise the roof at Michoud, if final assembly happen at KSC inside VAB or on Launch Pad

AS e of pi notes but let me point out the 'historic' (OTL) analog; The N1 :)
Assemble at the VAB, haul it out to the pad... and watch it explode. Granted it's a bit less likely with US manufacturing and QA but I don't see a good factor that would recommend not doing the all-up stage testing since the test rig is going to be right there anyway. And yes, you'll end up having to raise at least part of the roof which was actually a strike against the Nova OTL since Saturn-V avoided that cost. And as e or pi points out it was part and parcel of the whole Apollo assembly processing plan which tried to incorporate as many QA and test points during the process as possible to (hopefully) ensure the best chances of a successful launch. (All those early failures had that effect on planning)

Since NASA builds those modules on lower cost as Saturn V, no political need to stop the production, if needed simply pause the production for a while

Likely, especially since they will be continuing to require some module production to support the Space Station after all. One of my points on the possibilities such a "legacy" has on NASA over on the other thread, (and I've touched on in other discussions) is that politicians actually have a more limited 'say' in the general operational uses with such resources available to NASA. Whereas OTL Congress refused to authorized another production run of Saturn boosters of any type which effectively ended both Apollo and any hope of continuing the Apollo Applications Program, here Congress can, (and arguably will since the other factors are likely the same or very similar) cut NASA's overall budget they won't be able to directly take NASA's boosters away since at least a trickle is still needed for general operations.

(And here someone has to sit on NASA to keep THEM from throwing things away such as "early" curtailment of Space Station operations in favor of the 'next-big-operation' that leaves them at the mercy of Congress to approve. Don't get me wrong. The 'danger' is very much real and just like OTL if NASA management can not be brought to recognize the post-Apollo slump as less of an aberration and more of a return to more 'normal' prioritization for space activities the overall end result can be the same or worse than OTL's outcome)

This modular system is elegant because NASA can adapt it to it's mission profile from Saturn C-1 to Saturn C-7 class payload
Means from 15 metric tons to 150 metric tons
with 12 modules first stage even more !
the UR-900 proposal had 12 Modules in first stage to bring 240 metric tons in Low

Well the UR900 probably had about as much chance as a 12-module Nova; Pretty slim

The 7-module Nova would have been pushing operations and facilities at the Cape. Another part of the reason the Saturn-V was chosen over the Nova designs was the required facility 'hardening' to withstand either a pad explosion OR normal operations of the bigger boosters. (And even there OTL there was some miscalculation as the Saturn-V turned out a bit more powerful than anticipated) A 7-module lift off is going to do some damage with every launch and anything 'bigger' is not going to be able to be flown from the Cape. Not that I don't doubt it will be suggested mind you :)

Randy
 
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