Look to the West Volume V: To Dream Again
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Good update that. Some fascinating subplots. And I like how the new format allows you to get a bit melodramtic with twists like the female spy (I like also how she seems to get her soldier about as little as he gets her, the thought about him being a coward for instance).
Very interested to see how hawaii, south africa and carolina shake out after the war is over.
Very interested to see how hawaii, south africa and carolina shake out after the war is over.
I assume that "Freedom Theology" is similar to Liberation Theology IOTL.
EDIT: I spy something similar to this, but in Belgium.
EDIT: I spy something similar to this, but in Belgium.
Last edited:
Well, I was both lucky, and unlucky.
I was unlucky that I didn't realise that this TL was back for a week, and missed the first update.
I was lucky because I had just finished reading the first update when the second one popped up. Perfectly timed.
Glad a favourite TL of mine is back, can't wait for more.
I was unlucky that I didn't realise that this TL was back for a week, and missed the first update.
I was lucky because I had just finished reading the first update when the second one popped up. Perfectly timed.
Glad a favourite TL of mine is back, can't wait for more.
Alex Richards
Donor
This seems like it could end badly- not necessarily with this agent, but I doubt she's the only one to have developed these sorts of feelings.
Wasn't it covered a fair bit back?
And isn't that obvious, with Freedonia as a sorta-parallel to Liberia, right down to using a synonym for liberty in its name?
So the OTL Netherlands area and conquered German areas have separatists. Interesting - with the Standard Netherlands tongue of TTL and the fall of the corrupt Dutch Republic I'd have imagined the Dutch-speakers of both OTL Netherlands and Belgium would be rather quite amicable living together as one people due to common language and culture, if with understandable grouchiness Brussels runs the show and not Amsterdam.
Germans are what interest me. I'd imagine the OTL West Central German dialect will never quite disappear in TTL, even if it seriously drops in usage for Dutch - maybe an analogue of Scots vs English proper is what I'm thinking. But I'm curious on how Belgium tries to unite the OTL Belgians-Dutch-Germans in nationalism. I'd imagining heavy stressing that they were all FRANKS, the greatest Germanic tribe of them all - after all, OTL Dutch is from Old Low Franconian AKA what the Salian Franks spoke, whilst the West Central German dialect is descended from the language of the Riparian Franks - but they're all Franks. Linguistic and ethnic research will even help that out, and I'd not be surprised to see the region's version of Old High German be stressed way, way more as "Old High Franconian" to connect it with the Dutch language, as well as the realization of the OTL Rhenish Fan. Helps that it's all true, if the "Old High Franconian" name will be used waaaay more than OTL to empathize this.
I'm amused "Norden", the Germanic name, is replacing our more common Latinate Scandinavia in TTL, while the Latinate Belgium beats out the Germanic Nederlands/Netherlands in its place. Guess at least one Germanic European country needs to have a Latin name no matter the universe.
Germans are what interest me. I'd imagine the OTL West Central German dialect will never quite disappear in TTL, even if it seriously drops in usage for Dutch - maybe an analogue of Scots vs English proper is what I'm thinking. But I'm curious on how Belgium tries to unite the OTL Belgians-Dutch-Germans in nationalism. I'd imagining heavy stressing that they were all FRANKS, the greatest Germanic tribe of them all - after all, OTL Dutch is from Old Low Franconian AKA what the Salian Franks spoke, whilst the West Central German dialect is descended from the language of the Riparian Franks - but they're all Franks. Linguistic and ethnic research will even help that out, and I'd not be surprised to see the region's version of Old High German be stressed way, way more as "Old High Franconian" to connect it with the Dutch language, as well as the realization of the OTL Rhenish Fan. Helps that it's all true, if the "Old High Franconian" name will be used waaaay more than OTL to empathize this.
I'm amused "Norden", the Germanic name, is replacing our more common Latinate Scandinavia in TTL, while the Latinate Belgium beats out the Germanic Nederlands/Netherlands in its place. Guess at least one Germanic European country needs to have a Latin name no matter the universe.
Last edited:
Also worth posting as a separate comment:
Carolina stressing Imperial? THAT'S definitely fascinating. I'd not be surprised to see a lot of upper and middle crust Carolinians still feel a connection to the empire and not just in the past now and well-aware what they did was a mistake - but they've lived long enough as Carolinian to not quite feel pure American either. Really brings to mind how in OTL and TTL how "American" as a common identity was for Americans in the sense they were all once "Englishmen who happen to live the New World", and the subsequent cultural and political connections formed between them all. Primarily during the OTL Revolution and TTL's War of British Succession sure, but even before the POD via the New England Confederacy banding together to help each other out and the incense Virginia had at not being offered help by the Yankees during Bacon's Rebellion - they were all of one people in their eyes if English back then (and Virginia didn't send help during King Philip's War, so tit-for-tat there).
I mean, I focus a lot on American regionalism, and how in a very real sense it's a bunch of very different countries within a union who happen to speak the same language and are descended from one mother country. On the other hand, nationalistic unification was so incredibly successful here I can speak of Virginia and Texas feeling like different worlds... but if they were not within the USA and I'd have to treat them as foreigners it'd feel very, very weird, unsettlingly so. Seeing it from the other side of the coin in LTTW is enlightening.
Carolina stressing Imperial? THAT'S definitely fascinating. I'd not be surprised to see a lot of upper and middle crust Carolinians still feel a connection to the empire and not just in the past now and well-aware what they did was a mistake - but they've lived long enough as Carolinian to not quite feel pure American either. Really brings to mind how in OTL and TTL how "American" as a common identity was for Americans in the sense they were all once "Englishmen who happen to live the New World", and the subsequent cultural and political connections formed between them all. Primarily during the OTL Revolution and TTL's War of British Succession sure, but even before the POD via the New England Confederacy banding together to help each other out and the incense Virginia had at not being offered help by the Yankees during Bacon's Rebellion - they were all of one people in their eyes if English back then (and Virginia didn't send help during King Philip's War, so tit-for-tat there).
I mean, I focus a lot on American regionalism, and how in a very real sense it's a bunch of very different countries within a union who happen to speak the same language and are descended from one mother country. On the other hand, nationalistic unification was so incredibly successful here I can speak of Virginia and Texas feeling like different worlds... but if they were not within the USA and I'd have to treat them as foreigners it'd feel very, very weird, unsettlingly so. Seeing it from the other side of the coin in LTTW is enlightening.
Thande
Donor
It's not so much that they don't identify with the Empire so much as that nobody called people from the Empire "Imperials" before the Great American War where it was used to refer to the pro-government forces, so they use it as a stand-in for "American" because they're not comfortable making the implicit statement that they as Carolinians are not American.
I'm guessing that the rise of Nazi Steampunk France corralled support in favour of the restored Dutch Republic and the House of Orange that, by the time of conquest by Flanders, they were seen quite positively by most Dutch folk.
I doubt it. They'll probably stress "heritage" with the Belgii, a group that Julius Caesar gave high praise to, after all. Of course, this is a rather tenuous link, but it's not as if national myth is historically accurate. Franks are just too French for Belgium to look back to.
Because, clearly it's those Damn Yankees that aren't American.
And then, of course, Virginians will come to say that, oh no, it's only New Englanders that are Yankees.
Thande
Donor
The reason why I used Belgium for the Reunited Netherlands is that the term (or its derivatives) was first revived by the Dutch revolt against the Spanish in the Eighty Years' War, so it makes sense for it to be applied to both parts of the Low Countries together. (As in, for example, the famous Leo Belgicus propaganda map)
The reason why I used Belgium for the Reunited Netherlands is that the term (or its derivatives) was first revived by the Dutch revolt against the Spanish in the Eighty Years' War, so it makes sense for it to be applied to both parts of the Low Countries together. (As in, for example, the famous Leo Belgicus propaganda map)
It also strikes me as a much better neoclassical name for the Netherlands than Batavia.
The reason I say this is because Batavia was the name of Jakarta.
Which, of course, is why Thande named the VOC country the Batavian Republic, which is a pretty awesome false friend.
Oh I meant to say I'm well aware re: Belgian/-um vs. Dutch vs. Belgii vs. Batavian. Having what are in OTL considered Germans Proper within the country compared to JUST Dutch-speakers (of both the Netherlands and Flanders combined) throws a monkey wrench into the nationalism efforts to my eyes - it's easier to just say it's the Low Countries "finally" reunited, so to speak, if it was JUST the Dutch-speakers without significant amounts of Germans, and being able to use Belgium as just a poetic term, etc.
Oh yeah, I get all that. But it's surprising Carolinians aren't comfortable yet with the reality.
Oh yeah, I get all that.
But it's surprising Carolinians aren't comfortable yet with the reality.