Logical Middle East Borders

Akiyama

When I saw the title of this thread, I assumed it referred to this.

Click "next" to get to the "after" map, then click the map to enlarge it.

I found it via a now defunct blog called Chris At Home, which was a weird mixture of commentary on the War on Terror and pictures of scantily-clad East Asian women.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Oh... my... God. This is the Armed Forces Journal? How's this lovely little quote:

"Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works. "

How nice that our servicement are being exposed to this drivel.

Akiyama said:
When I saw the title of this thread, I assumed it referred to this.

Click "next" to get to the "after" map, then click the map to enlarge it.

I found it via a now defunct blog called Chris At Home, which was a weird mixture of commentary on the War on Terror and pictures of scantily-clad East Asian women.
Click to expand...
 

luakel

Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
Oh... my... God. This is the Armed Forces Journal? How's this lovely little quote:

"Oh, and one other dirty little secret from 5,000 years of history: Ethnic cleansing works. "

How nice that our servicement are being exposed to this drivel.
Click to expand...
The blog's not too much better, but if the AFJ says stuff like that it's no wonder the guy links to them. What do you think of the proposed map, Abdul?
 

Wendell

:eek: That's a rather odd map. Some parts of it are just silly though, nevermind the very idea of reordering the region in such a way. Pakistan, the Shia Arab state, and Afghanistan on that map make little to no sense at all.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
luakel said:
The blog's not too much better, but if the AFJ says stuff like that it's no wonder the guy links to them. What do you think of the proposed map, Abdul?
Click to expand...

I think it's puerile, stupid, senseless, and insane all at the same time. For instance, Tabriz is in Kurdistan, which is ridiculous. What is all this Kurd love all of a sudden from the far right? Do they realize 60 million angry Turks is not a good trade for 10 million Kurds that aren't really going to do anything for you anyway?
 

Strategos' Risk

Kurds are like Muslim Israelis. They appear democratic and secular, they love America and the West (despite the betrayals done to them), and they're even receiving secret aid from Israel.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Strategos' Risk said:
Kurds are like Muslim Israelis. They appear democratic and secular, they love America and the West (despite the betrayals done to them), and they're even receiving secret aid from Israel.
Click to expand...

They're not democratic and secular. In fact their main ethnic representative organization is a terrorist army. Lovely.
 

Strategos' Risk

Exactly. Again, perhaps by necessity, they actually actively seek out U.S. support- they're like the Muslim version of Israelis (or Armenians). Not even the pro-democracy movement in Iran does that. I recall an article back from the early days of the war with a peshmerga saying something like "If George Bush comes to Kurdistan after the war, we'll give him 10 of our oil wells and another wife, a Kurdish one."
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
FENK said:
Thus, Captain Literal, the "appear" in his previous statement.
Click to expand...

Strategos' Risk said:
Exactly. Again, perhaps by necessity, they actually actively seek out U.S. support- they're like the Muslim version of Israelis (or Armenians). Not even the pro-democracy movement in Iran does that. I recall an article back from the early days of the war with a peshmerga saying something like "If George Bush comes to Kurdistan after the war, we'll give him 10 of our oil wells and another wife, a Kurdish one."
Click to expand...

Yes, but the people making policy should be more conscious of all this. And people constructing alternate Middle East borders ought to know more about their "heroic" subjects as well.

I think the reason the Right worships the Kurds is because they're so desperate to find a friend in the region that they've latched onto the only group that isn't actively resisting us (nor helping, but happy to take the money), whereas the Left worships the Kurds because they hate everything Turkish, so (totally misunderstanding the Turk-Kurd relationship) assume that the Kurds must therefore be noble and deserving of a country. Despite the Maoist terrorism thing.
 

Empror Mike

Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
I think it would be very easy to say "no" to Israel after the Holocaust if there had not been a specifically delineated Palestine into which their large-scale immigration was allowed. One wrong, no matter how big, does not justify another. The Muslims of Palestine did not participate in the Holocaust, and had long lived in harmony with the Jews there, and even protected them for millenia from Christian persecution. Their reward was to be stripped of their land and ejected from their ancestral homeland.

If there was to be a Jewish state somewhere, it should have been somewhere largely uninhabited, like the Kenyan highlands, or created at the expense of Germany. Maybe East Prussia, for example...
Click to expand...

Whoa, back off, dude!
Despite the common Palestinian version of "Al Nakba", the story is not exactly that. The Jews didn't come to Palestine to avenge the holocaust, and the persecution and violent banishing of the Palestinians had nothing to do with it.
There was a two-sided escalation of the relations between Muslims and Jews throughout the 1930s and 40s. The vengeance that fueled the Israeli agression was not that of the holocaust, but that of the Great Arab Revolt. Besides, it's not that the Palestinians didn't want to take part in the war.

I'm not justifying the great wrong that has been done to the Palestinian people. I'm just saying that you can't possibly blame the holocaust for it.


BTW:
Your comment about the Kenyan Highlands was highly dismissive of the local population.
 

Calgacus

Empror Mike said:
Whoa, back off, dude!
Despite the common Palestinian version of "Al Nakba", the story is not exactly that. The Jews didn't come to Palestine to avenge the holocaust, and the persecution and violent banishing of the Palestinians had nothing to do with it.
There was a two-sided escalation of the relations between Muslims and Jews throughout the 1930s and 40s. The vengeance that fueled the Israeli agression was not that of the holocaust, but that of the Great Arab Revolt. Besides, it's not that the Palestinians didn't want to take part in the war.

I'm not justifying the great wrong that has been done to the Palestinian people. I'm just saying that you can't possibly blame the holocaust for it.


BTW:
Your comment about the Kenyan Highlands was highly dismissive of the local population.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the Kenyan Highlands were fairly well inhabited already. Unfortunately all the proposals to resettle the Jews involved putting them somewhere inhospitable or somewhere that was populated already (although usually by black people so everyone just ignored their presence).

Although I think Abdul may have been saying that European guilt over the holocaust played a fair part in acceptance of the Israeli state.
 

Empror Mike

Guilt? I dont think so.
A learned lesson? perhaps.
After the holocaust it was realized that it is vital and fair that the Jewish people have a state. All original ideas for a jewish state, Zionism itself also, came from various incidents of violence towards the Jews.
Jews were the only ones to notice it at first, and it took 6,000,000 lives for the rest of Europe to understand it as well.
 

Grimm Reaper

Abdul, to the extent that the Mufti was Hitler's ally and a wanted war criminal by several Balkan nations post-WWII, they did. Plus the Arab Revolt(1936-39) and pressure from Arab governments is what forced the British to block Jewish immigration in 1939.

So direct and deliberate action on the part of the Arabs caused hundreds of thousands to die who would otherwise have escaped as 300-400K did prior to 1939.

Yes, I know that other locations could have taken the Jews in and did not but this location actively was until the Arabs deliberately halted it.



Also there are more like 20 million Kurds(more like 70 million Turks in Turkey) and the way things are going it probably won't be long before it isn't gaining X Kurds while losing YxX Turks, it will be gaining X Kurds while losing no one who is still seen as a friend in the first place.:(
 

Calgacus

Empror Mike said:
Guilt? I dont think so.
A learned lesson? perhaps.
After the holocaust it was realized that it is vital and fair that the Jewish people have a state. All original ideas for a jewish state, Zionism itself also, came from various incidents of violence towards the Jews.
Jews were the only ones to notice it at first, and it took 6,000,000 lives for the rest of Europe to understand it as well.
Click to expand...

What of the other dispossessed peoples of the world though? The Jews are not the only ethnic group without their own state. They are not even the only group persecuted as a result. Should we establish a Roma state?
 

Empror Mike

A Roma state will be established. As the EU grows stronger, the states within it will disintegrate. It's obvious. Look at Spain, at the United Kingdom, at France. So will happen with Romania.
Also, the Jews were (& maybe still are) the most spread-out group in the world. With no point of actuall concentration but rather areas of denser dispersity and those of lighter dispersity.
 

Leo Caesius

Banned
Empror Mike said:
A Roma state will be established.
Click to expand...
Where? How do you create a state for a nomadic people? Or, if we're giving a state to the settled Roma, they are not a majority anywhere. Will this state be a string of small villages throughout Europe?

It would be better for the Roma to establish a parallel state for themselves not based upon territory.
 

Empror Mike

Leo Caesius said:
Where? How do you create a state for a nomadic people? Or, if we're giving a state to the settled Roma, they are not a majority anywhere. Will this state be a string of small villages throughout Europe?

It would be better for the Roma to establish a parallel state for themselves not based upon territory.
Click to expand...

You can "domesticate" (or however u say de-nomadize) any people, even the Roma. And you can give 'em a state anywhere. If they're Jewlike, they'de choose the spot themselves and be very unfriendly towards the other peoples of the place.
 
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