An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
Everything's coming up Henry. I must say I'm going to miss the guy when he's gone. But it will be quite fun to see how his son tries to keep the Jenga tower from toppling over that's for sure.
With the war in the west settled and the struggle for the imperial seat done I can't help but think the Ravens are the next agenda item. I know they can't be allowed to stand, but I do hope they go down in a way that would make the Hussites proud.
I think Philip and Henri could work together to take down the Ravens since both are on the same page and Philip is willing to cede the Rhine if only to get rid of these peasant rebels, as he might be unable to do so with an atrophied HRE.
I don't recall if there is an already known fate for the Ravens, but considering the Hungarians don't rely on the Germans for their strength, they're in a potential position for working with the Ravens as a German opposition to the Phillipine HRE. Whilst the HRE tears itself apart he can sit in Bohemia and Austria and simply provide supplies.
(Then again, I could be entirely wrong, I can't recall much about Raven-AnyoneElse relations).
I find it unlikely, if only because the Ravens aren't just a normal rebellion that the Hungarian king could support to weaken the HRE. Their ideology is deeply antithetical and hostile to landowners and the nobility (IIRC the Ravens killed most of the landowners/lords in Magdeburg when they occupied it), so even he might have second thoughts about supporting the Ravens.
Exactly. This has been discussed and no king, emperor, duke, baron, etc. can lend legitimacy to the Ravens. They upset the entire feudal structure. Having the Triunes come in to help was unthinkable under Ottokar since he was still actively fighting them, but Phillip having shed any pretense of not being in collaboration, really loses nothing by enlisting their help.
Still there isn't a lot of impetus for Henri to provide it unless it looks like Phillip can't manage the situation or any of his people seem like they are getting ideas. They'll be crushed, because the world requires them to be crushed. But I fully hope they go down swinging and a favorable/realistic account of them is preserved for posterity.
That's a fair point - though I wonder if that might work in their favour? If the HRE doesn't find real peace in the wake of this new Holy Roman Emperor, the various factions might be too embedded to do anything about them.
Though, wildcard idea - what about the youngest Wittlesbach? If House Wittlesbach is able to recover in the wake of everything, it might be a cool gamble to see a deal - Constitutional Monarchy for an alliance to create a Germany that can somehow include the Ravens, in a manner that the rest of Europe can tolerate with the Wittlesbach involved.
The latter seems really unlikely, at least for contemporary historians. The Ravens represent an existential threat to the status quo in both the Latin West and the Orthodox East, so there would be very few supporters in both the nobility and the intelligentsia. With them dead, the overall narrative of "history goes to the victors" would be in full force here, with most Europeans treating them as a violent peasant mob, in my opinion. Though, being infamous is a lot better than being forgotten like with the True Levellers/Diggers.
Still, I think future socialist movements and modern historians would view them more favorably, as a rebel group that tried to overthrow the oppressive feudal system, implementing policies that seem far ahead of their time.
I'm all in for a Wittelsbach restoration, since I don't think they're completely dead yet with Elisabeth still in the woodworks and they're one of the few strong Houses left in the Empire with the death of Ottokar. In a way, I actually want her leading a resistance against Guelph rule in due time, setting the stage for the Wittelsbach retaking the Empire from the usurpers.
I don't really have anything to say regarding comments so far to this update without getting into spoilers.
But, considering recent thread discussions, I find it more than a bit ironic that there is a currently active (as of posting) 12-page thread where the discussion is now heavily focused on whether or not the Byzantines were Romans or Greeks, with some posters arguing strongly that the Byzantines were not Roman. Lest anyone think TTL Latins being anal about not calling the Rhomaioi 'Romans' is me being unrealistic.
But, considering recent thread discussions, I find it more than a bit ironic that there is a currently active (as of posting) 12-page thread where the discussion is now heavily focused on whether or not the Byzantines were Romans or Greeks, with some posters arguing strongly that the Byzantines were not Roman. Lest anyone think TTL Latins being anal about not calling the Rhomaioi 'Romans' is me being unrealistic.
Rome should just stay out of the mess that is the 'west'. We've seen how this so called allies react, its better to just stay on the sidelines and provide what support you could only at a high price.
Poland won't try to fuck the east and south. Russia is a behemoth and the practically greater moravian union is stronger than Poland. I can see that Poland's interest eill be on the German side but whether they can actually take advantage of it remains to be seen.
Prudence and sage are telling me to be in lock step with you, because obviously, Rome is entering a period where internal management is going to trump foreign politics for while. But, the urge to keep HRE look "weak" and have the Tribunes be the boogeyman of Europe keeps sweeping the leg.
I don't subscribe to the chaos being anyone ally, but when your enemy, and at this point Rome views the Northern Europeans as their enemies if not opponents, is off balance, it would behoove me to subtly keep it a that way for as long as I can without it burning me. Plus getting the Moravian union closer to me, and in agreement they can now over Poland, would add another side of the European board with an active east, and breaking the usual North/South friction. Seeing an HRE and Triune not just at peace but the HRE being favourable to Henri, would have alarm bells ringing all through the office of barbarians. Not even a generation has passed since the WoRS.
As I write this before I catch the boat, I would be upping my subtle influence in E.Europe, ie Prussia, and the Moravian Union, making Poland feel more isolated, while sending positivity to them so they don't feel like the Germans are their only help against being between their neighbors. With the ever light sprinkling of the Russias to season the fear cooking, Rome could look like a brake to any perceived adventurism Poland might view at its borders.
I'm only on coffee 1.5 so this is still formulating, I'll think more on it after I have a proper tea.
For the record I'm arguing against the claim seen often here that somehow being the Roman empire and believing to be so, precluded them feeling and believing themselves Greek. It did not.
As far as I'm concerned anyone who argues that the Byzantines weren't Romans needs to hand their Romanophile card back in.
I think this is likely to be true, but I have hopes that there are some within Magdeburg (I hope I'm remembering correctly where they are) who are capable and inclined to write down an account of the movement and that it might survive. I can imagine some low level clergy or quartermaster wanting to be a historian. Printing presses are widespread enough that several copies of documents could be made and the chances of them surviving isn't so remote. Honestly it just needs to make it a couple centuries on someone's shelf before the world might be more ready to hear it.
Alternatively, I could see some Roman trader/spy/diplomat visiting the city and making a detailed account. While Rome wouldn't support the movement I think their government structure is secure enough that they wouldn't feel a need to censor the account. They'd simply point to the Ravens' collapse and the survival of the Roman state through all their trials to assert the superiority of their system.
I agree with this bit. While the Rhomans won't be in support of the movement it isn't quite anathema to then the way it is to the Western Europeans. Not to mention the vast majority don't exactly have a great view of bankers, moneylenders, or landlords, including quite a few in the halls of power.
Yeah, that's a realistic proposition, where some intellectual or amateur writes a less biased account on the Ravens in Magdeburg. It'll be obscure, of course, even with the printing press, but as long as it exists, there is the possibility of a socialist revolutionary that could pick up the book and learn about their ideology and actions at the moment.
That's also possible, but a firsthand account from a Roman is less likely than someone from Magdeburg as a direct witness, since the HRE is a warzone and the Romans have isolated themselves from the Latin West for the most part. Maybe the Roman source is a secondhand account a few years after the Rebellion? It'd be markedly different from the ones done by the Germans or the Triunes, but wouldn't be as trustworthy.
"I became insane, with long periods of horrible insanity"
apt quote by Edgar Allen Poe.
Hungary Hapsburgs wannabe of TTL. Wonder if they'll begin eyeing Bavaria or the Veneto next.
Also wondering how tied is TTL's Prussia to the HRE?
So Hungary now has almost all of OTL Royal Hungary (sans Belgrade and Vlach bits?), entire Bohemia and all of Austria sans Salzburg? Slovakia is I think a Hungarian vassal?
That's almost the power base that sustained Habsburg continuation as great power status after mid 17th century, are we giving this enough weight?
It is a major shift in european balance of power. Hungary was expected to be a semifriendly but clearly inferior neighbour and a commerciall partner to Rome, but now it has resources to compete in much more equal footing.
That's almost the power base that sustained Habsburg continuation as great power status after mid 17th century, are we giving this enough weight?
It is a major shift in european balance of power. Hungary was expected to be a semifriendly but clearly inferior neighbour and a commerciall partner to Rome, but now it has resources to compete in much more equal footing.
Hungary is definitely in a place to be a troublemaker in Eastern Europe. I think this might push a much closer alignment of Dalmatia with Rome. A powerful Hungary is likely to eye that coastline. If Russia remains at least as united as it is currently I think Hungary is going to rightly remain scared of them.
I'm really looking forward to seeing how the politics of Europe play out over the next century and what state formation looks like. In addition to all the questions about the West that get brought up more frequently I wonder, will a true Germany coalesce? Will Russia, Hungary, and Prussia take a page from OTL and partition Poland? Will a powerful Hungary attempt to exploit the poor situation of Vlachia to draw them away from the Orthodox sphere?
I'm really looking forward to seeing how the politics of Europe play out over the next century and what state formation looks like. In addition to all the questions about the West that get brought up more frequently I wonder, will a true Germany coalesce? Will Russia, Hungary, and Prussia take a page from OTL and partition Poland? Will a powerful Hungary attempt to exploit the poor situation of Vlachia to draw them away from the Orthodox sphere?