An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

So, we are having an Italian campaign and with Odysseus present, as a Strategos. I wonder which Italian city will be razed to the ground...
I really enjoyed the Galileo Galilei scene!
Finally, judging by Demetrios' words (and the coughing ), sadly I don't think he will make it in the 1640's.
 

Cryostorm

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With the cousin marriage, incest doesn't actually have that immediate of an effect, even siblings could marry with no greater chance than normal marriages. The issue comes from when several generations of marriage occur, the type that makes the family "tree" more of a palm tree rather and an oak, and the presence of recessive genes with negative effects, plus a lot of (bad)luck with genetic drift. As an one off to join two dynastic lines together there is pretty much no more danger of ill effects than if the two kids in question married random strangers. For that matter the imperial line, what with being of Greek, Turkish, Georgian, Armenian, Russian, Ethiopian and in the future possibly Mexican, Japanese, Malay, Indian, and Chinese descent, is likely one of the healthiest in the world at this point.
 
True but the Hapsburgs did it because of the reformation thinning out suitable marriages in Germany and North Europe and their marriage into so many other dynasties before then didn’t help matters. This is likely just a one time thing to secure the dynastic line for the Romans.
I've heard it was more due to the gavelkind succession splitting up inheritance among multiple sons that made cousin marriages common in order to unite the family hereditary lands without warfare.
 
Gavelkind is ridiculous.
Keep in mind it makes complete and total logical sense when applied on a small scale, as it was originally intended in small tribal groups in Germany. We use it today on a small scale in most modern societies. The problems came when the clans came to own all of the land of the clan in common (the precursor to modern eminent domain) and grew far too large while placing too much authority under the chieftains. This effectively made it so that all land in a clan's given territory was 'owned' by one man who, in applying ancient succession practice, split up what was legally considered 'his' property among his heirs. This should sound reasonable to most modern people as dividing inheritance is common practice today, though women are given shares as well. The issue is that what could and did work on a small scale to allow family units to have enough farmland to survive independently was and is not even remotely applicable to the management of a country. It was done anyways because that is the power 'tradition' can have when an entire ruling class has the same general idea about what should happen. Going against it, despite obvious benefits if looked at objectively, can be borderline impossible.
 
Keep in mind it makes complete and total logical sense when applied on a small scale, as it was originally intended in small tribal groups in Germany. We use it today on a small scale in most modern societies. The problems came when the clans came to own all of the land of the clan in common (the precursor to modern eminent domain) and grew far too large while placing too much authority under the chieftains. This effectively made it so that all land in a clan's given territory was 'owned' by one man who, in applying ancient succession practice, split up what was legally considered 'his' property among his heirs. This should sound reasonable to most modern people as dividing inheritance is common practice today, though women are given shares as well. The issue is that what could and did work on a small scale to allow family units to have enough farmland to survive independently was and is not even remotely applicable to the management of a country. It was done anyways because that is the power 'tradition' can have when an entire ruling class has the same general idea about what should happen. Going against it, despite obvious benefits if looked at objectively, can be borderline impossible.
Dynastically its ridiculous I mean, though I see your point about it being natural for a small unit.
 
I'm sure Odysseus will have Andreas I's Italian campaign in mind right now. Perhaps it's an opportunity to even outdo him....
There is also the fact that while the Arletians consider the Rhine to be very important, for the Spanish Italy must take priority over Germany. It is far closer.
It will be very unfortunate if Arles has to sit helplessly whilst the Triunes overrun the HRE. With the Triunes almost fully comitted on their Eastern front surely they'll represent some threat by themselves?
 
I'm sure Odysseus will have Andreas I's Italian campaign in mind right now. Perhaps it's an opportunity to even outdo him....

It will be very unfortunate if Arles has to sit helplessly whilst the Triunes overrun the HRE. With the Triunes almost fully comitted on their Eastern front surely they'll represent some threat by themselves?
The HRE’s army has bled out so Henry is probably using overkill once Lotharinga falls. Arles should strike now.
 
Damn, another Emperor title? They’re a dime a dozen for European monarchs?

What’s the TTL reason for there being so many? There’s the Roman Emperor, Kaiser, Megas Regis, Triple Monarchy, EOTN, Ethiopian King of Kings and now potentially the Spanish?

Given the OTL almost aversion of these titles (at least until Napoleon) what’s the reason why?
 
Damn, another Emperor title? They’re a dime a dozen for European monarchs?

What’s the TTL reason for there being so many? There’s the Roman Emperor, Kaiser, Megas Regis, Triple Monarchy, EOTN, Ethiopian King of Kings and now potentially the Spanish?

Given the OTL almost aversion of these titles (at least until Napoleon) what’s the reason why?
My guess is that the title didn't get devalued like it did OTL, where the best example of "Emperor" around was the increasingly toothless elected leader of the HRE. Here the European monarchs instead got to watch the shiny example of the Emperor in Constantinople, whose station commanded the most prestigious state around and practiced primogeniture autocracy while everyone else had to make do piddling around with feudalism. So when the Empire looked like it was losing its touch (Time of Troubles + Female Triumvirate), everyone claimed the title to make themselves out as the new big boy.
 

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Damn, another Emperor title? They’re a dime a dozen for European monarchs?

What’s the TTL reason for there being so many? There’s the Roman Emperor, Kaiser, Megas Regis, Triple Monarchy, EOTN, Ethiopian King of Kings and now potentially the Spanish?

Given the OTL almost aversion of these titles (at least until Napoleon) what’s the reason why?
Don't forget you have the Emperors of China, Japan, Mexico, and the Shahanshah of Persia. Personally I am expecting the Vijayanagar take the title as well to gain respect. It also represents a ruler that stands over several "kingdoms".
 
Don't forget you have the Emperors of China, Japan, Mexico, and the Shahanshah of Persia. Personally I am expecting the Vijayanagar take the title as well to gain respect. It also represents a ruler that stands over several "kingdoms".
To be fair, China, Japan and Persia all have at least as much Imperial pedigree as the Romans. They make sense in context. It would be nice to see all these other wannabes taken down a peg or two.
 
Don't forget you have the Emperors of China, Japan, Mexico, and the Shahanshah of Persia. Personally I am expecting the Vijayanagar take the title as well to gain respect. It also represents a ruler that stands over several "kingdoms".
You're right but I specifically outlined European (or would it be more accurate to say "Greater West").
It seems like every Latin Barbarian who can cobble together a few kingdoms is playing at being Emperor.
 

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You're right but I specifically outlined European (or would it be more accurate to say "Greater West").
It seems like every Latin Barbarian who can cobble together a few kingdoms is playing at being Emperor.
Well in the Megas Rigas case it was a title granted by Rhomania, essentially means high king, as a favor to Russia. The same seems to be the case with Ethiopia who I think has actually vassal kings so the title is pretty descriptive of the current set up.

As to the rest it is like a poster above said, in TTL the two most powerful nations of Europe, Rhomania and the HRE, are true empires so anyone wanting to be respected has felt the need to do be a similar rank, and in Spain's case this isn't the first time some has claimed imperial dignity in Hispania, arguably the last on to do so was the Umayyad Caliphate, though they should have waited till Aragon was firmly absorbed but it seems only a matter of time at this point.
 
Well in the Megas Rigas case it was a title granted by Rhomania, essentially means high king, as a favor to Russia. The same seems to be the case with Ethiopia who I think has actually vassal kings so the title is pretty descriptive of the current set up.

As to the rest it is like a poster above said, in TTL the two most powerful nations of Europe, Rhomania and the HRE, are true empires so anyone wanting to be respected has felt the need to do be a similar rank, and in Spain's case this isn't the first time some has claimed imperial dignity in Hispania, arguably the last on to do so was the Umayyad Caliphate, though they should have waited till Aragon was firmly absorbed but it seems only a matter of time at this point.
The Accord would feel dominated by Spain however as an empire is much grander than a kingdom.
 
Of course, if the Accord is reduced to Spain (and its vassals) and Arles, Arletian analysts are probably looking at a map and wondering what exactly the drawbacks of not having a potentially hostile neighbor in Italy are, as Spain inches towards the Pyrenees and continues to expand along the Mediterranean coast. Arles-N.Italy-Sicily-Tunis is about as formidable a ring of buffer states as Vlachia-Hungary-Serbia is.
 
Of course, if the Accord is reduced to Spain (and its vassals) and Arles, Arletian analysts are probably looking at a map and wondering what exactly the drawbacks of not having a potentially hostile neighbor in Italy are, as Spain inches towards the Pyrenees and continues to expand along the Mediterranean coast. Arles-N.Italy-Sicily-Tunis is about as formidable a ring of buffer states as Vlachia-Hungary-Serbia is.

I'm a smidge confused. Is this a suggestion that with Spain on one side, that Arles may be interested in taking N.Italy? Or that they'd want to have the Romans there?
 
I'm a smidge confused. Is this a suggestion that with Spain on one side, that Arles may be interested in taking N.Italy? Or that they'd want to have the Romans there?
Not necessarily want the Romans there, but more open to the argument that "it's not so bad, and looking around, it could be worse". Arles are about to find themselves trapped between two expansionist superpowers, one of whom has already tried to conquer them in the past (the Triunes), and might look askance at a Spain which is gobbling up what used to be its buffer state with Arles.

Basically, I think the situation in Spain (and the Triune invasion of Lotharingia) has changed things enough, and in a way that maybe the Spanish didn't entirely think through when they started subtly antagonizing the Romans. It creates a win-win opportunity for Arles and Rome if they decide to work together.
 
Not necessarily want the Romans there, but more open to the argument that "it's not so bad, and looking around, it could be worse". Arles are about to find themselves trapped between two expansionist superpowers, one of whom has already tried to conquer them in the past (the Triunes), and might look askance at a Spain which is gobbling up what used to be its buffer state with Arles.

Basically, I think the situation in Spain (and the Triune invasion of Lotharingia) has changed things enough, and in a way that maybe the Spanish didn't entirely think through when they started subtly antagonizing the Romans. It creates a win-win opportunity for Arles and Rome if they decide to work together.

Aye. Arles has the benefit that really, there is not gain to the Romans in trying to vassalise or dominate them. It's an opening in France, between two/three rivals depending on your perspective.

Really Arles would only be interesting to control in Constantinope if they'd already entered Spain and that can't happen till Africa is resolved. If anything the Romans benefit long term if Arles is able to become more powerful and push the Triunes off the continent. An Occitan France would be interesting.
 
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