An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
- Start date
No it doesn't. It provides a quick snapshot of the (official) borders and areas of control for all the nations on the map. The dashed areas indicate major recent changes and the subtext explains them, referring to other maps as necessary to get the best picture of the general situation at the time period the map is depicting. An atlas will often do the same thing.
Evilprodigy
Donor
The dashed areas do not indicate major recent changes. Or at least it doesn't appear like it does. It looks like jointly administered territory or some sort of strange disputed land rather than a conquest. The solid black borders in them also make it look like these are separate countries, such as in Poland which is just land conquered from someone else when a black like is supposed to convey an international border, the Demetrian agreement which looks like a confusing mess that doesn't illustrate who owns what now or before, and the trans-aras which is a long ongoing border dispute/territorial claim rather than a recent change. It's not a system at all consistently applied and makes the map unclear about the current state of affairs. There is nothing wrong with indicating recent territorial acquisitions but this hashed method fails at conveying such things accurately or succinctly. If you have to look at a separate reference document for clarity then the map doesn't convey all the ideas it needs to.
There is a reason we already have a generally established convention for designating territorial claims for territory in AH.com's map formatting systems that are not this hash, because it is not as clear as it could be.
It is also not really necessary.
I think the problem isn't the hashing itself, but just this outlining. I did a rushed edit removing the outline from the side who has conquered the territory; it makes it look much clearer in my opinion. The only remaining bit of eye strain is the Ottoman jut into Syria because it hashes across multiple colours.
I laughed at myself, because I totally understand what @Evilprodigy was on about, this map has a nice polish on the excellent on before.
It is a shame it going to need to be adjusted post "Pacification of the Latins", and everyone's going to get a taste. The idea of a Rhoman Caribbean makes me think more a St. Pierre et Miquelon tilt, being granted fishing rights, plus merchant marine docking off a Mexico. Rhome doesn't want to put more than a glancing effort protecting it, but would still want to ready doorway to a friend.
I keep feeling that Henry thinks that he is getting his cake and eating it too, that when he moves on Lotharingia, because he really only has one way to go, all his angry 'shit-puppets' will turn on him. The Accord would see value in a German lead war to preserve the status quo in north Europe, and a chance to knock the Triunes down a peg.
It is a shame it going to need to be adjusted post "Pacification of the Latins", and everyone's going to get a taste. The idea of a Rhoman Caribbean makes me think more a St. Pierre et Miquelon tilt, being granted fishing rights, plus merchant marine docking off a Mexico. Rhome doesn't want to put more than a glancing effort protecting it, but would still want to ready doorway to a friend.
I keep feeling that Henry thinks that he is getting his cake and eating it too, that when he moves on Lotharingia, because he really only has one way to go, all his angry 'shit-puppets' will turn on him. The Accord would see value in a German lead war to preserve the status quo in north Europe, and a chance to knock the Triunes down a peg.
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Vince
Monthly Donor
Roman vassal of Genoese expatriates that were kicked out of the city during the reign of Andreas I.
A few minor errors - Novgorod only gained Narva and Prussia gained Pernau, (they didn't recover all of their losses from the Great Northern War)
Despotate of Carthage, A Ligurian-Berber state formed by exiled Genoans. Hmm, I thought they still held Mahdia and Djerba too.
Vlachia would have a population boom compared to OTL. No constant raiding from Turks an Tatars, no constant squabbles between the old kingdoms, battles are usually fought outside of its boundries, a strong ally, no need for scorched earth strategies, fertile lands and diverse mineral deposits - the population and income would be comparable to, say, Poland, even if it's more or less a captive market to the Empire.
Yeah, I thought so to. The way it looks now it wouldn't take much for either Rhome or one of the Russian states to absorb it.
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It would make sense for Scythia to bend the knee, and pledged itself as a vassal or Despotate. It’ll give it better tariff rates and then all trade from the Russian states will flow through it to the Empire proper. Given it’s pretty small and weak that’ll be the best way to strengthen itself.
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If that's the size of Scythia is I agree, with Tana and Crimea as direct holdings still, they have grown to being islands in north with a friendly Russia. The splintering into the Russias would have reaffirmed that development, and could be what Alexandria and the Delta are to Egypt. I thought they were directly ruled from Constantinople as I look at the map.
Off topic, is the White palace built on the old acropolis, or the great palace grounds? If on the old acropolis, the former great palace would make the coolest university campus ever.
And another wild thought, would the Triunes be so bold as to send a raiding fleet to shock the Rhomans? Or does Henry think that it isn't worth a squadron to shake the idea of a quiet eastern Med? That is a lot of merchant marine afloat, he would know something was up, and they are a maritime people. The absence of Rhoman vessels would mean they were moving something, the reports as of late have been a concerted effort on Rhomes side of evacuating Thessaloniki. But that many boats? This might just be another case of ABCFDEGHI with the intelligence.
Off topic, is the White palace built on the old acropolis, or the great palace grounds? If on the old acropolis, the former great palace would make the coolest university campus ever.
And another wild thought, would the Triunes be so bold as to send a raiding fleet to shock the Rhomans? Or does Henry think that it isn't worth a squadron to shake the idea of a quiet eastern Med? That is a lot of merchant marine afloat, he would know something was up, and they are a maritime people. The absence of Rhoman vessels would mean they were moving something, the reports as of late have been a concerted effort on Rhomes side of evacuating Thessaloniki. But that many boats? This might just be another case of ABCFDEGHI with the intelligence.
The Triunes would be far from home in the Eastern Med, with nearly no friendly port in the Mediterranean basin. It'd be a risky, close to suicidal mission, and with little chance of returning with plunder. The risk/reward balance is skewered heavily towards the former, and while it can be done, it doesn't really make too much sense in the current context. It might have been useful if the Allies pushed the Rhoman forces back towards Constantinopole in disorder to increase the pressure to the breaking point, or a risky gamble to relieve pressure and force attention away from a vital Triune area, than a good option at the moment.
I knew that. What I was asking was what the hell happened to two-thirds of their territory?
Marinds flush with Mali gold rolled them and the Romans during the Eternal war. They faced only token resistance because the Romans were focused on Iskander.
@HanEmpire: Well, the Dukes of Verona and Mantua and Ferrara and Parma, for that matter, aren’t in Tuscany now, are they? So why should they care?
Exactly. At most there are some regional identities.
@ImperatorAlexander: The Lombards borrowed the idiot ball the OTL Byzantines were holding: Enemies are at the gates, meaning this is the perfect time to have a big fight over who gets to be captain of this sinking ship!
Just a few Roman tagmata, in conjunction with the Sicilian army, would make a huge difference to the war effort here. Sicily’s been heavily supported thus far, but primarily by the Roman navy.
@Antony444: Lombardy’s in for some interesting times. There’s the about-to-commence civil war, there are the Romans and Sicilians with their interests, and the Accord obviously has its eyes on Italy as well.
@RogueTraderEnthusiast: I don’t think a confederacy would be able to hold together. The Lombard kingdom is a clutch of regions, some with significant autonomy and all with their own identities and no attachment to an ‘Italy’. They’ve held together because Milan has been strong enough to keep them together and also lucrative enough to convince regional elites that it’s worthwhile to stay in the system. Without that strong/wealthy center, the regions don’t have much incentive to stick together save for defense. And isn’t it more fun to ally with the big boy far away and go beat up your neighbor and take his stuff, rather than team up with your neighbor and fight the big boy?
The Barbary corsairs are still a big concern at this point. The alt-Barbarossa is dead, but they’re still a menace and Sicily suffered badly from their attention.
@Duke of Nova Scotia: He could, although he’s a bit too competent for Constantinople’s liking.
Yup. Demetrios has no real reason to back one side over the other at the moment, so it comes down to ‘what can you offer me?’
It’s a balancing act with Lombardy. There are the northern Italians themselves, there’s the Accord, and also the matter of Sicily. If Lombardy is weakened too much, Sicily might decide that it doesn’t need to stay a Roman Despotate and could make a play for independence. Think Rhomania=Great Britain, Sicily=13 Colonies, Lombardy=New France (Canada).
The White Palace is built on the old acropolis, where the OTL Topkapi Palace is.
Sir Omega answered your question regarding the raiding party. It’d be like the Romans sending a squadron to the Channel. Yes, it could cause a lot of damage, but odds are it gets quickly annihilated by vastly superior defenders before it can do anything.
@Evilprodigy: I do understand. Recent history has more sources, more people, more relevance. It’s a pet peeve of mine, nothing more. Personally, I start losing interest in history post 1945.
I wanted those regions to be given a marker of some kind since I wanted them delineated. I wanted to show the trans-Aras territory that has been changing hands, and I wanted to show the Polish conquests and Scandinavian losses.
@Shard: I get that; I just enjoy pre-1900 more than post, which is why I find the disparity in libraries/bookstores so annoying.
@JSC: The Italian updates are interesting, because unlike the Balkan and eastern fronts, I don’t have a set plan that I’m following. They’re much more free-form, which is fun, although I wouldn’t recommend writing a whole TL like that. It helps that this is a tertiary theater as far as the war goes.
Yeah, Rhomania isn’t keen on conquering and absorbing a whole bunch of Catholics. Based on Syria and the early Roman rule in Apulia, this is a situation that could get ugly really fast. Direct annexations would likely be limited to a Livorno or two, with territory going to Sicily or to new Despotates/vassals. There are still d’Estes and Montefeltros in Rhomania, so they could get their pre-ToT lands back (Romagna and Urbino). And now I love the idea of the Romans imposing a Medici Despot of Tuscany.
@Curtain Jerker: Glad you liked it. I’m really enjoying writing the naval combat. The sea battles of the Age of Sail was what got preteen me interested in history that wasn’t WW1 or WW2.
Yeah, the whole war has been really bad on Demetrios III’s health. He would’ve lived a lot longer if he’d never been Emperor or never had this war.
The Romans wouldn’t be able to support that many in the east at the same time. An army in Mesopotamia and an army in Syria would be competing for the same sources of provisions, draft animals, carts, etc. Depots would help a lot, but we’re looking at more like 90,000 in Mesopotamia and 20,000 in Syria. Georgia, for their part, can pitch in with another 30-40,000. Also if the Ottoman army isn’t in interior Syria, sending 90,000 men at it would be like using an elephant to crush an egg.
@Roland Traveler: I feel sorry for Cesare. He’s weak, which is bad but not a crime, forced into a war he didn’t really want, can’t get out of it when losing, and now all this.
@altwere: None of the Italian grandees are good at introspection, or humility.
Rhomania might tolerate communes in small states; they’re much less picky when it comes to vassal states. But for the bigger ones, they’d appoint or find some single leader to be in charge. It’s easier to work with one guy than a committee, and if need be, only one throat to cut.
The ideal leader of a Roman despotate or vassal in Italy would be a member of a major family, with a local power base that can help solidify their rule, but still insecure enough that they’ll stay loyal to Rhomania since the Empire will back them up against local challenges. Back in the days of Andreas Niketas, all the Italian vassals were ruled by local notables, and several stayed loyal with the d’Estes and Montefeltros going into exile in Rhomania, where they’ve loyally served to this day; aside from Andreas d’Este in Venetia, there was a Montefeltro Katepano of Taprobane in the late 1500s.
Since Egyptian/Ethiopian gains aren’t official yet, they’re not shown. The Southern Anizzah were conquered by the Howeitat in the late 1620s; there was a small bit about that in the early Syrian-war updates. That West Africa sub-Saharan spot are the Marinid domains south of the desert, centered on Timbuktu.
Darfur is an independent neutral state (former Ethiopian vassal). Najd and Hadramut are both neutral, although there were volunteers that were part of the Arab raiding parties serving as Ottoman auxiliaries. Yemen is an independent state, but a de-facto Ottoman satellite, which is why the Ethiopians went at it without question once hostilities started.
@Cryostorm: Pre-battle analysis is not a Lombard strong suit.
Yeah, on a map the Ottomans look like they got a better deal than they did. Which is why I went and pointed out all the issues first and then posted the border-change map. Mosul is going to be #1 priority for the Romans once the truce expires.
Damascus is going to be hurt bad by this. There’s a customs barrier between it and the coastal ports that wasn’t there before, and Damascene merchants don’t have access to the capital that could be provided by loans from the Imperial Bank any longer. Trading with Mesopotamia via the Palmyra caravan track, instead of the Mesopotamia road network, also does not help.
@Donald Reaver: The Spanish just took it from the Andalusi.
That’s one of the hidden goals of the TL, have southern Italy & Sicily do better than IOTL. I also want to make the Mediterranean basin, in general, do better in relation to northern/western Europe.
@Ain: They’re based primarily out of Minorca, which is now their Rhodes/Malta ITTL. They focus mainly on combating the Barbary corsairs, although they’ll certainly indulge in some piracy themselves.
@Babyrage: If Verona and Parma go straight at each other, they’ll clash before they get news of Thessaloniki. (The battle at Thessaloniki is four days after Parma starts marching north, plus I’d add at least a week for the news to travel.) If there’s more parrying beforehand though, news may get to northern Italy before they fight.
They really can’t do much now. Their focus is on killing each other.
@Lascaris: Yup. That’s their number one concern right now. Nothing else matters, unless it is some way enhances their chances at number one concern.
@The Wandering Reader: Yeah, somebody caught that! I was wondering if anyone would. There’s one more like that in the update.
Roman approval/backing is going to be crucial for this fight, and Demetrios will get something out of it.
@nlucasm: Demetrios III wouldn’t abdicate right away. He does have reform plans that’ve been on the back burner for years that he wants to implement, and those will take time. Although he’s not the type to cling stubbornly to power till his dying breath.
Rome and the Papacy is complicated. At this point, the city of Rome isn’t big enough for the Basileus and the Pope. And that is an issue.
An expanded Roman Italy would be divided up into a few different vassals. A Despotate with at least a third of the Roman Imperial heartland’s population would start getting ideas about going its own way.
@Arrix85: I agree, with some of the smaller Italian states then drifting into the orbit of the bigger powers around them like Arles and Spain and Rhomania.
Scythia was always smaller than the other Russian states, although it ended up being smaller on the map in comparison than I expected.
@TheCataphract: The war ending will do a lot to help. He was doing a lot better in the time between the Allied retreat from Ruse and the Twelve Days.
@Israel_Dan the Man: Glad you like it. There isn’t a complete list of all nations, but here’s the ones recently mentioned.
Rhomania: 18 million (6.5 million more in the Despotates)
Lombardy: 7.5 million
Spain: 7 million (does not include Al-Andalus)
Arles: 5.75 million
Vlachia: 1.75 million
Great Pronsk: 8 million
Holy Roman Empire: 26 million
Triple Monarchy: 22.5 million
Hungary: 3.5 million
Poland: 4.5 million
Ottoman Empire: 14 million
Lotharingia: 4 million (I said 3 million in an earlier update, but based on further research I’m upping it.)
@floppy_seal99: Agreed. It looks like a poor deal on a map, but on the ground it’s better for the Romans.
The Marinids mauled Carthage while the Romans were dealing with the Great Uprising and Eternal War.
@Archangel: Grabbing northern Mesopotamia up to and including Mosul is what Demetrios considers ‘minimum necessary gains’. He’s not interested in conquering Mesopotamia as a whole, as there’s no point in destroying the Muslim population in Syria to then acquire a new one. But he wants security for Anatolia and Syria.
@catconqueror: Amirales took the forward border Ottoman fortresses, and those are being held by the Romans under the terms of the truce. The big one, Mosul, is still Ottoman though. But after Mosul, there’s much less in the way of defenses save at the bigger cities themselves.
@Sphenodon: Yeah, Syria’s a complete mess. It’s going to be a long time before it’s in good shape again.
I vaguely remember making a throwaway line that TTL Timur did kill a lot of the Assyrian Christians he encountered in his conquests, so that much is similar to OTL.
A lot of the Roman loyalists evacuated from interior Syria are going to end up settled in northern Mesopotamia, partly as compensation for their lost land they’re not getting back soon because of the truce, and also to emplace an anti-Ottoman populace in these new lands Rhomania intends to keep. So northern Iraq ITTL is going to have Alawite, Druze and Ismaili populations.
Kurds are similar to OTL. There are large populations in both the Roman and Ottoman Empires, used by both as border settlers, raiders, and soldiers.
@Komnenos002: A lot of Vlachia’s territories are recent conquests from the Mohacs War. It’s in a good position as you said. Rhomania has its back, and the Empire is a real good trading partner for Vlachia. Constantinople has huge demand for Vlach timber, grain, and animal products.
@SirOmega: Vlachia got clobbered really hard during the Time of Troubles; it got pummeled by a joint Hungarian-Polish invasion while the Romans couldn’t help. Then the Romans, in a bid to rebuild their own population, sucked up a lot of the Vlachs as settlers. So that substantially lowered the population, so future growth was small because of the small principle. Now though after a few generations to build back up and Rhomania now longer tempting people away, Vlachia’s in a position to take off.
@JohnSmith: Scythia at this point is a Roman vassal in all but name. But there’s a matter of pride involved by keeping it ‘all but name’, and the Romans aren’t going to ask. People resent being forcibly subjugated, especially by someone who was supposed to be a friend.
Exactly. At most there are some regional identities.
@ImperatorAlexander: The Lombards borrowed the idiot ball the OTL Byzantines were holding: Enemies are at the gates, meaning this is the perfect time to have a big fight over who gets to be captain of this sinking ship!
Just a few Roman tagmata, in conjunction with the Sicilian army, would make a huge difference to the war effort here. Sicily’s been heavily supported thus far, but primarily by the Roman navy.
@Antony444: Lombardy’s in for some interesting times. There’s the about-to-commence civil war, there are the Romans and Sicilians with their interests, and the Accord obviously has its eyes on Italy as well.
@RogueTraderEnthusiast: I don’t think a confederacy would be able to hold together. The Lombard kingdom is a clutch of regions, some with significant autonomy and all with their own identities and no attachment to an ‘Italy’. They’ve held together because Milan has been strong enough to keep them together and also lucrative enough to convince regional elites that it’s worthwhile to stay in the system. Without that strong/wealthy center, the regions don’t have much incentive to stick together save for defense. And isn’t it more fun to ally with the big boy far away and go beat up your neighbor and take his stuff, rather than team up with your neighbor and fight the big boy?
The Barbary corsairs are still a big concern at this point. The alt-Barbarossa is dead, but they’re still a menace and Sicily suffered badly from their attention.
@Duke of Nova Scotia: He could, although he’s a bit too competent for Constantinople’s liking.
Yup. Demetrios has no real reason to back one side over the other at the moment, so it comes down to ‘what can you offer me?’
It’s a balancing act with Lombardy. There are the northern Italians themselves, there’s the Accord, and also the matter of Sicily. If Lombardy is weakened too much, Sicily might decide that it doesn’t need to stay a Roman Despotate and could make a play for independence. Think Rhomania=Great Britain, Sicily=13 Colonies, Lombardy=New France (Canada).
The White Palace is built on the old acropolis, where the OTL Topkapi Palace is.
Sir Omega answered your question regarding the raiding party. It’d be like the Romans sending a squadron to the Channel. Yes, it could cause a lot of damage, but odds are it gets quickly annihilated by vastly superior defenders before it can do anything.
@Evilprodigy: I do understand. Recent history has more sources, more people, more relevance. It’s a pet peeve of mine, nothing more. Personally, I start losing interest in history post 1945.
I wanted those regions to be given a marker of some kind since I wanted them delineated. I wanted to show the trans-Aras territory that has been changing hands, and I wanted to show the Polish conquests and Scandinavian losses.
@Shard: I get that; I just enjoy pre-1900 more than post, which is why I find the disparity in libraries/bookstores so annoying.
@JSC: The Italian updates are interesting, because unlike the Balkan and eastern fronts, I don’t have a set plan that I’m following. They’re much more free-form, which is fun, although I wouldn’t recommend writing a whole TL like that. It helps that this is a tertiary theater as far as the war goes.
Yeah, Rhomania isn’t keen on conquering and absorbing a whole bunch of Catholics. Based on Syria and the early Roman rule in Apulia, this is a situation that could get ugly really fast. Direct annexations would likely be limited to a Livorno or two, with territory going to Sicily or to new Despotates/vassals. There are still d’Estes and Montefeltros in Rhomania, so they could get their pre-ToT lands back (Romagna and Urbino). And now I love the idea of the Romans imposing a Medici Despot of Tuscany.
@Curtain Jerker: Glad you liked it. I’m really enjoying writing the naval combat. The sea battles of the Age of Sail was what got preteen me interested in history that wasn’t WW1 or WW2.
Yeah, the whole war has been really bad on Demetrios III’s health. He would’ve lived a lot longer if he’d never been Emperor or never had this war.
The Romans wouldn’t be able to support that many in the east at the same time. An army in Mesopotamia and an army in Syria would be competing for the same sources of provisions, draft animals, carts, etc. Depots would help a lot, but we’re looking at more like 90,000 in Mesopotamia and 20,000 in Syria. Georgia, for their part, can pitch in with another 30-40,000. Also if the Ottoman army isn’t in interior Syria, sending 90,000 men at it would be like using an elephant to crush an egg.
@Roland Traveler: I feel sorry for Cesare. He’s weak, which is bad but not a crime, forced into a war he didn’t really want, can’t get out of it when losing, and now all this.
@altwere: None of the Italian grandees are good at introspection, or humility.
Rhomania might tolerate communes in small states; they’re much less picky when it comes to vassal states. But for the bigger ones, they’d appoint or find some single leader to be in charge. It’s easier to work with one guy than a committee, and if need be, only one throat to cut.
The ideal leader of a Roman despotate or vassal in Italy would be a member of a major family, with a local power base that can help solidify their rule, but still insecure enough that they’ll stay loyal to Rhomania since the Empire will back them up against local challenges. Back in the days of Andreas Niketas, all the Italian vassals were ruled by local notables, and several stayed loyal with the d’Estes and Montefeltros going into exile in Rhomania, where they’ve loyally served to this day; aside from Andreas d’Este in Venetia, there was a Montefeltro Katepano of Taprobane in the late 1500s.
Since Egyptian/Ethiopian gains aren’t official yet, they’re not shown. The Southern Anizzah were conquered by the Howeitat in the late 1620s; there was a small bit about that in the early Syrian-war updates. That West Africa sub-Saharan spot are the Marinid domains south of the desert, centered on Timbuktu.
Darfur is an independent neutral state (former Ethiopian vassal). Najd and Hadramut are both neutral, although there were volunteers that were part of the Arab raiding parties serving as Ottoman auxiliaries. Yemen is an independent state, but a de-facto Ottoman satellite, which is why the Ethiopians went at it without question once hostilities started.
@Cryostorm: Pre-battle analysis is not a Lombard strong suit.
Yeah, on a map the Ottomans look like they got a better deal than they did. Which is why I went and pointed out all the issues first and then posted the border-change map. Mosul is going to be #1 priority for the Romans once the truce expires.
Damascus is going to be hurt bad by this. There’s a customs barrier between it and the coastal ports that wasn’t there before, and Damascene merchants don’t have access to the capital that could be provided by loans from the Imperial Bank any longer. Trading with Mesopotamia via the Palmyra caravan track, instead of the Mesopotamia road network, also does not help.
@Donald Reaver: The Spanish just took it from the Andalusi.
That’s one of the hidden goals of the TL, have southern Italy & Sicily do better than IOTL. I also want to make the Mediterranean basin, in general, do better in relation to northern/western Europe.
@Ain: They’re based primarily out of Minorca, which is now their Rhodes/Malta ITTL. They focus mainly on combating the Barbary corsairs, although they’ll certainly indulge in some piracy themselves.
@Babyrage: If Verona and Parma go straight at each other, they’ll clash before they get news of Thessaloniki. (The battle at Thessaloniki is four days after Parma starts marching north, plus I’d add at least a week for the news to travel.) If there’s more parrying beforehand though, news may get to northern Italy before they fight.
They really can’t do much now. Their focus is on killing each other.
@Lascaris: Yup. That’s their number one concern right now. Nothing else matters, unless it is some way enhances their chances at number one concern.
@The Wandering Reader: Yeah, somebody caught that! I was wondering if anyone would. There’s one more like that in the update.
Roman approval/backing is going to be crucial for this fight, and Demetrios will get something out of it.
@nlucasm: Demetrios III wouldn’t abdicate right away. He does have reform plans that’ve been on the back burner for years that he wants to implement, and those will take time. Although he’s not the type to cling stubbornly to power till his dying breath.
Rome and the Papacy is complicated. At this point, the city of Rome isn’t big enough for the Basileus and the Pope. And that is an issue.
An expanded Roman Italy would be divided up into a few different vassals. A Despotate with at least a third of the Roman Imperial heartland’s population would start getting ideas about going its own way.
@Arrix85: I agree, with some of the smaller Italian states then drifting into the orbit of the bigger powers around them like Arles and Spain and Rhomania.
Scythia was always smaller than the other Russian states, although it ended up being smaller on the map in comparison than I expected.
@TheCataphract: The war ending will do a lot to help. He was doing a lot better in the time between the Allied retreat from Ruse and the Twelve Days.
@Israel_Dan the Man: Glad you like it. There isn’t a complete list of all nations, but here’s the ones recently mentioned.
Rhomania: 18 million (6.5 million more in the Despotates)
Lombardy: 7.5 million
Spain: 7 million (does not include Al-Andalus)
Arles: 5.75 million
Vlachia: 1.75 million
Great Pronsk: 8 million
Holy Roman Empire: 26 million
Triple Monarchy: 22.5 million
Hungary: 3.5 million
Poland: 4.5 million
Ottoman Empire: 14 million
Lotharingia: 4 million (I said 3 million in an earlier update, but based on further research I’m upping it.)
@floppy_seal99: Agreed. It looks like a poor deal on a map, but on the ground it’s better for the Romans.
The Marinids mauled Carthage while the Romans were dealing with the Great Uprising and Eternal War.
@Archangel: Grabbing northern Mesopotamia up to and including Mosul is what Demetrios considers ‘minimum necessary gains’. He’s not interested in conquering Mesopotamia as a whole, as there’s no point in destroying the Muslim population in Syria to then acquire a new one. But he wants security for Anatolia and Syria.
@catconqueror: Amirales took the forward border Ottoman fortresses, and those are being held by the Romans under the terms of the truce. The big one, Mosul, is still Ottoman though. But after Mosul, there’s much less in the way of defenses save at the bigger cities themselves.
@Sphenodon: Yeah, Syria’s a complete mess. It’s going to be a long time before it’s in good shape again.
I vaguely remember making a throwaway line that TTL Timur did kill a lot of the Assyrian Christians he encountered in his conquests, so that much is similar to OTL.
A lot of the Roman loyalists evacuated from interior Syria are going to end up settled in northern Mesopotamia, partly as compensation for their lost land they’re not getting back soon because of the truce, and also to emplace an anti-Ottoman populace in these new lands Rhomania intends to keep. So northern Iraq ITTL is going to have Alawite, Druze and Ismaili populations.
Kurds are similar to OTL. There are large populations in both the Roman and Ottoman Empires, used by both as border settlers, raiders, and soldiers.
@Komnenos002: A lot of Vlachia’s territories are recent conquests from the Mohacs War. It’s in a good position as you said. Rhomania has its back, and the Empire is a real good trading partner for Vlachia. Constantinople has huge demand for Vlach timber, grain, and animal products.
@SirOmega: Vlachia got clobbered really hard during the Time of Troubles; it got pummeled by a joint Hungarian-Polish invasion while the Romans couldn’t help. Then the Romans, in a bid to rebuild their own population, sucked up a lot of the Vlachs as settlers. So that substantially lowered the population, so future growth was small because of the small principle. Now though after a few generations to build back up and Rhomania now longer tempting people away, Vlachia’s in a position to take off.
@JohnSmith: Scythia at this point is a Roman vassal in all but name. But there’s a matter of pride involved by keeping it ‘all but name’, and the Romans aren’t going to ask. People resent being forcibly subjugated, especially by someone who was supposed to be a friend.
This will mean the death of the Levantine Muslim culture. Without an economic and religious stronghold to counter the dominance of Roman culture, everyone in this region will get assimilated. The only Sunni Muslims left will consist of tiny rural communities stuck inside pockets of medieval stasis.
I wonder, will future historians remark on the various thousand-year epochs in Roman history?
After all:
-City of Rome's rise and fall spanned ~1000 years from the start of the Republic to the deposition of Romulus Augustulus.
-Middle Ages spanned ~1000 years from the fall of the WRE to Andreas' reconquest of Rome.
-Roman Empire's general lack of territorial security and accredited respect lasted ~1000 years from the Muslim conquests until D3's campaign to instill Roman-Terror in everyone.
-Islamic dominance of the Levantine culture spanned ~1000 years from the expansion of the Caliphate to the defeat of the Ottoman Empire.
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After this war when Rome gets back the Levant it is going to be the death of Levantine Muslim culture no matter what. Rome in its current mindset will not stand for a large concentrated culture to rival Roman culture that has taken every opportunity to revolt and aid Rome’s enemies over the last 2 centuries.
It is not pleasant to say or think about but I would be SURPRISED if in the post 1641 war Rome does not expel/kill or enslave every single Sunni Muslim in territories it takes in the Levant and Northern Mesopotamia. They will utterly depopulate both regions, change the names of the cities and towns, and repopulate both areas with retiring soldiers, Christians expelled from the Ottoman lands, and the poor from the Aegean heartland.
It will take a century to redevelop and regain population but with a what I suspect will be an Ottoman Empire going through its own TOT Rome will have a quiet Eastern frontier and by the time the Ottomans or their successors are ready for another round I expect that culturally and religiously there will be no difference between Mosul, Damascus, and Antioch and the hinterland surrounding them.
In the same way we are seeing the birth of the Modern Roman Empire I suspect we are also seeing the establishment of more or less the Modern Borders of Rome and the Roman Sphere in Europe being established in the next generation as well.
Rome will have nowhere else to expand to after the next war with the Ottomans. Georgia will likely get the Trans-Aras back in the 1641 war and will likewise be satiated after also doing expulsions and what in the modern day would ethnic cleansing at minimum and genocide at worst. Egypt will likewise more or less be at its limit after the current war barring repeated genocides and I don’t see that. Sicily will also reach near its limit post war and modern Libya really isn’t going to be doing anything dramatic. The only major change I can see would be a major push to connect “Carthage” with “Libya” but even that is on the periphery.
I do think the next war will be the “War of Wrath” that was mentioned a few decades ago and if I’m being honest I don’t think a war named after a Christian mortal sin is going to go well for any non-Christians hence why I think Rome/Georgia are going to be absolutely brutal in this war.