Alternative History Armoured Fighting Vehicles Part 2
- Thread starter Claymore
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That was my first thought was thinking about the guidance system and in essence what you describe would be akin to the theoretical 'arsenal' ship on land. I am envisage multiple forward observers illuminating AFV's while the 'arsenal' tank is concealed behind a hill. Perhaps a result of an earlier Golan Heights scenario and trying to prevent an IDF outpost being overrun?
Interesting to consider the cost per kill vs the PK of same.
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Claymore I'd like to know what you think of this configuration, Pz.III/IV with modded turret and rear drive suspension but I've lowered the hull and moved it forward. The gun is the Pak-40 cannon.Suspension from M41.
Do you think it's a viable configuration and if so, what do you think the weight would be more or less?
Do you think it's a viable configuration and if so, what do you think the weight would be more or less?
I hope your right but I'd like to hear what Claymore's educated opinion on it.
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Claymore
Kicked
That's an excellent analogy and given the very specific role of long-range tank destroyer it would prove difficult and expensive for it to do anything else. A gun tank can easily turn from tank destroyer to infantry support to ersatz artillery - not so easy/practical for an ATGM thrower. There is still likely to be the need for some sort of mobile gun.
The cost would be higher but the very long-range PK would probably be justification.
Claymore
Kicked
Looking good although I would say that the turret looks a little too long for the hull. The engine compartment on the M41 started just in front of the second rear most road wheel. I know this is a bespoke tank but it is still a good guide. Your turret is therefore covering quite a lot of the access to the engine deck.
Shorten the turret a bit and I think you have a good looking vehicle.
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The first thought that jumped out at me was my experience working with USN Arleighs and Ticonderogas - where they performed a similar role. So in this case it would perhaps be used to guard a HVU / installation which would necessitate such employment. Hell if the Israelis can get it right we could even have multiple batteries perhaps in a similar fashion to an earlier Patriot battery?
Take three on the BIDSG Pz.III/IV. Took your advice and shortened the turret and then lengthen the engine deck because it seemed to warrant it. I removed an escape hatch from the side of the turret on earlier and I'm now wondering if I should put it back? My thinking was to put it in the rear of the turret like on the Panther but now I've put on a stowage rack because I thought the tank could use it and most modern tanks have them.Looking good although I would say that the turret logs a little too long for the hull. The engine compartment on the M41 started just in front of the second rear most road wheel. I know this is a bespoke tank but it is still a good guide. Your turret is therefore covering quite a lot of the access to the engine deck.
Shorten the turret a bit and I think you have a good looking vehicle.
So yay or nay on the stowage rack, if yay put back escape hatch on the side?
The thing is, I want to see if the missile tank can replace the gun tank, not just take a bunch of it's targets. The Pereh and earlier versions are meant for that - Taking care of alot of the hard targets for the armor. Naturally the IDF would need to start upgrading it's APCs into IFVs for infantry support, but if it can add anti-infantry warheads to the missiles, that can help as well.
Today's Batch of AFVs, medium tanks, no more for a few days as I'm going back to work tomorrow. ugh. But anyways thoughts on these and the lights I posted yesterday is welcome. However I'm posting whole stats of these tanks as I'm made a whole lot more mods to these than those lights yesterdays. Also there will be more guns coming as I'm looking for CS weapons for the infantry.
Based off the Medium Mark III(Hull modified, no machine gun turrets and the driver area is blinded in the hull. Track is wider.)
Weight: 21.1t
Crew: 6 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader, Radio Operator)
Armor: 51 to 13mm
Main Armament: 3.7 cm Pak 36
Secondary Armament: MG 18 TuG (Commander’s Hatch), Maxim Machine Gun (Co-Axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 400hp/major issues with transmission and they are broken fairly easily.
Speed: 26 km/h
Operational Range: 200km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Cruiser Mk I (A9)hull (Modified, no machine gun turrets and front part of the hull designed to be more modernish) and T-24 Turret
Weight: 22.9t
Crew: 6 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader, Radio Operator)
Armor: 51 to 13mm
Main Armament: 5 cm Pak 38 (A Model), 7.5 Kwk 37 (B Model), Flamethrower (C Model)
Secondary Armament: MG 18 TuG(Commander’s Hatch), Maxim Machine Gun (Co-Axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 450hp/They got the transmission issues figured out now
Speed: 29 km/h
Operational Range: 250 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off a Panzer III(Hull and Turret modified to sloped armor)
Weight: 26.1t
Crew: 5 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 77 to 26 mm
Main Armament: 5 cm Pak 38
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, diesel, 500 hp
Speed: 31 km/h
Operational Range: 200 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off Cromwell (A27M) hull (Sloped armored modified) and Panzer IV Turret (Sloped Armored modified)
Weight: 29.3t
Crew: 5 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 89 to 38mm
Main Armament: 7.5 cm Pak 40
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 800hp
Speed: 70 km/h
Operational Range: 300 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Comet (A34) hull (Sloped armored modified) and M26 Pershing Turret
Weight: 33.1t
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 102 to 51 mm
Main Armament: 8.8 cm Kwk 36 L/56
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial), 4 x 3 Smoke Grenade Discharger (Turret mounted)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 850 hp
Speed: 61 km/h
Operational Range: 300 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: Fielded in 1919/0 Gen
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Centurion Hull(Mk2) and M48 Patton Turret
Weight: 48.1t
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 127 to 77mm
Main Armament: 8.8 cm Kwk 43 L/71/Two piece twist models from the word go
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial), 4 x 3 Smoke Grenade Discharger (Turret mounted)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 1,000hp
Speed: 49 km/h
Operational Range: 250 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: Yes/0 Gen
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Centurion Hull (Mk7) and M60 Patton Turret
Weight: 51.2t
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 153 to 77mm
Main Armament: 12.8 cm Pak 44
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial), 4 x 3 Smoke Grenade Discharger (Turret mounted)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 1,250hp
Speed: 53 km/h
Operational Range: 300 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: Yes/0 Gen
NBC Systems: Yes
Based off the Medium Mark III(Hull modified, no machine gun turrets and the driver area is blinded in the hull. Track is wider.)
Weight: 21.1t
Crew: 6 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader, Radio Operator)
Armor: 51 to 13mm
Main Armament: 3.7 cm Pak 36
Secondary Armament: MG 18 TuG (Commander’s Hatch), Maxim Machine Gun (Co-Axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 400hp/major issues with transmission and they are broken fairly easily.
Speed: 26 km/h
Operational Range: 200km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Cruiser Mk I (A9)hull (Modified, no machine gun turrets and front part of the hull designed to be more modernish) and T-24 Turret
Weight: 22.9t
Crew: 6 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader, Radio Operator)
Armor: 51 to 13mm
Main Armament: 5 cm Pak 38 (A Model), 7.5 Kwk 37 (B Model), Flamethrower (C Model)
Secondary Armament: MG 18 TuG(Commander’s Hatch), Maxim Machine Gun (Co-Axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 450hp/They got the transmission issues figured out now
Speed: 29 km/h
Operational Range: 250 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off a Panzer III(Hull and Turret modified to sloped armor)
Weight: 26.1t
Crew: 5 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 77 to 26 mm
Main Armament: 5 cm Pak 38
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, diesel, 500 hp
Speed: 31 km/h
Operational Range: 200 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off Cromwell (A27M) hull (Sloped armored modified) and Panzer IV Turret (Sloped Armored modified)
Weight: 29.3t
Crew: 5 (Commander, Driver, Co-Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 89 to 38mm
Main Armament: 7.5 cm Pak 40
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 800hp
Speed: 70 km/h
Operational Range: 300 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: No
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Comet (A34) hull (Sloped armored modified) and M26 Pershing Turret
Weight: 33.1t
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 102 to 51 mm
Main Armament: 8.8 cm Kwk 36 L/56
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial), 4 x 3 Smoke Grenade Discharger (Turret mounted)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 850 hp
Speed: 61 km/h
Operational Range: 300 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: Fielded in 1919/0 Gen
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Centurion Hull(Mk2) and M48 Patton Turret
Weight: 48.1t
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 127 to 77mm
Main Armament: 8.8 cm Kwk 43 L/71/Two piece twist models from the word go
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial), 4 x 3 Smoke Grenade Discharger (Turret mounted)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 1,000hp
Speed: 49 km/h
Operational Range: 250 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: Yes/0 Gen
NBC Systems: No
Based off the Centurion Hull (Mk7) and M60 Patton Turret
Weight: 51.2t
Crew: 4 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Loader)
Armor: 153 to 77mm
Main Armament: 12.8 cm Pak 44
Secondary Armament: DShK (Commander’s Hatch), MG3 (Co-axial), 4 x 3 Smoke Grenade Discharger (Turret mounted)
Engine: V-12, liquid cooled, 1,250hp
Speed: 53 km/h
Operational Range: 300 km
Radio: Yes
NVG Systems: Yes/0 Gen
NBC Systems: Yes
Claymore
Kicked
No hatches I say. Turret perhaps just a little too short now - I'd extend it to just about where the rear deck steps up and that should be it.
Claymore
Kicked
Heard and understood and that really is the key point - can a missile tank effectively cover off all of the roles of a gun tank? With some from of anti-personnel round (frag or thermobaric) the answer is probably yes but whether it is a cost effective to do so is another matter.
Some thought would also need to be given to defensive systems if everyone was going o switch to missile primary armament - some form of beehive round projector or interceptor missile?
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