1982:Spaniards seize the Rock whilst the RN's in the Falklands
- Thread starter Dunash
- Start date
Leave Uranus out of this!
What the hell is the BOAR anyway?DMA said:Yes I agree. The whole scenario of Spain attacking the Rock in 1982 is absurd to begin with. But why just stop there I say! Let's have it all - nukes & everything. I was just going with the flow after a visit by ASBs from Uranus in my dreams last night
Paulo the Limey said:
BOAR is a typo. Sorry about that. It should read BAOR, which means British Army of the Rhine. In 1982 it was a fully profession "combat ready" (well kind of) British army numbering about 60 000 troops. Now considering the UK is on a war footing, because of the Falklands, I'd imagine that the BAOR would likewise on alert. So four divsions (6th Armoured Division, 7th Armoured Division, 11th Armoured Division, & 2nd Infantry Division), all fully armed, equiped & supplied, could be avaliable for operations against Spain. There would also be the Army Air Corps Regiment & RAF units involved in support of the BAOR.
There were also various Territorial Divisions involved with the BAOR acting as a reserve, even though these were based in the UK. So if the BAOR was given it's marching orders, these Territorials may have been ordered to Germany in order to continue UK's comittment to NATO & the defence of Germany. Obviously, these Territorials wouldn't be of the same standard as the professionals of the BAOR, but UK could still claim to be keeping to it's requirements of the various treaties. Meanwhile, the Spainish have to deal with, arguably, the best army in the world that's about to invade from the north.
DMA, wait! The BAOR pitted against Spain? But they would have to cross through all of France and I doubt Paris would comply with the request.
You must therefore take into account the loss of an estimated 10% of British ammunition, 60% of fuel supplies, and at least half the BAOR lost for use. Admittedly the fuel will be quickly replenished, the ammo a little slower, and except for a few auto and helicopter accidents, the missing troops are all on garrison duty in France but still...
Yes, I am looking to make trouble. Is that wrong?
You must therefore take into account the loss of an estimated 10% of British ammunition, 60% of fuel supplies, and at least half the BAOR lost for use. Admittedly the fuel will be quickly replenished, the ammo a little slower, and except for a few auto and helicopter accidents, the missing troops are all on garrison duty in France but still...
Yes, I am looking to make trouble.
Is that wrong?Grimm Reaper said:Yes, I am looking to make trouble.
Trouble maker eh? Welcome to the club!
Well France, although not a memebr of NATO, is a signature to the North Atlantic Treaty. So if Britain is attacked by Spain, who's a non-member of even the Treaty, France is obliged to help Britain. Now they may not join in any attack, but stopping the movements of the BAOR is breaking it's requirements of the Treaty.
Now fair enough about the logistical tail of the BOAR, but I can't see the Spanish border guards stopping hundreds of Chieften tanks with a rifle &/or Spanish swear words. The only garrison duties I thus see the BAOR doing is in Madrid, Barcelona & a dozen other Spanish cities. Then, I'd dare argue, the Spanish govt might consider swapping Gibraltar for the northern half of Spain. That's, of course, if the Spanish population doesn't conduct a democratic revolt, put the post-Franco facist government up against a wall somewhere, & come to terms with the UK.
UK keeps Gibraltar & Spain becomes a liberal democratic nation. Spain joins the Common Market & NATO not long afterwards. The British are seen as liberators until thousands of British tourists flood the country getting completely drunk & making a general nuisance of themselves.
DMA said:Now fair enough about the logistical tail of the BOAR, but I can't see the Spanish border guards stopping hundreds of Chieften tanks with a rifle &/or Spanish swear words. The only garrison duties I thus see the BAOR doing is in Madrid, Barcelona & a dozen other Spanish cities. Then, I'd dare argue, the Spanish govt might consider swapping Gibraltar for the northern half of Spain. That's, of course, if the Spanish population doesn't conduct a democratic revolt, put the post-Franco facist government up against a wall somewhere, & come to terms with the UK.
UK keeps Gibraltar & Spain becomes a liberal democratic nation. Spain joins the Common Market & NATO not long afterwards. The British are seen as liberators until thousands of British tourists flood the country getting completely drunk & making a general nuisance of themselves.
Spanish fascist government.... Let me tell you a secret: in 1982, the PSOE, that is, the Socialist party, were in power.
England teaching Spain to be democratic... funny indeed. Like in the Ulster, perhaps?
Brilliantlight
Banned
If the Spanish government was insane enough to order it the Spanish military would probably refuse to obey orders and may even launch a military coup. The Spanish population would certainly not back an unprovoked attack on a British outpost. The Spanish merchant class would be screaming at the government. There would be universal comdenation and the US might get involved. The British probably don't have to put up much of a fight as the Spanish government wouldn't last a week.
Brilliantlight
Banned
Kurt_Steiner said:
It is virtually certain most people in Ulster want to remain part of GB. Catholics are a minority there.
Brilliantlight said:
I can only think of a foolish government in Spain able of doing that: Franco or Phillip II
, but not the one in 1982Brilliantlight said:
As they are a minority, they can be murdered freely, as it happened in the Bloody Sunday or as the unarmed members of the IRA in Gibraltar in 1988. Ok...
PS: I'm against any kind of terrorism, included the one waged by some governments.
PS 2: Give me a good reason to attack the Rock. And please, don't say because of jingoistic or fascist -even if the fascist regime vanished in 1975- reasons, otherwise it would have been done during 1939-1945...
Kurt_Steiner said:
Bright day
You remind me of classmate of mine, aslo so reasonable as to say-
Gladi's classmate Anna said:
Before you start telling me I am fascist, know that I am quite an anarchist (true democrat). And tell me how can man, who says killing other is fair, protest aganist his own death? (without being amoral hypocrite)
Brilliantlight
Banned
Kurt_Steiner said:
If they were murdered freely there would be few Catholics left in Ulster.
Gladi said:
I'm not going to say you are a fascist, because you have given me no reasons to think so. About your question, can you explain yourself, cause I got no idea of that you mean at all?
About your friend and his opinion about Serbs, if he thought that about Serbs, I prefer not to know what he said about Nazis...
Brilliantlight said:
Well, I know they are not murdered as cattle, but I haven't heard of soldiers firing against any kind of unarmend civilian but Irish civilians. Of course they are not exterminated because they have also their "defense forces" and used to retaliate. If the killings were made always but the same people, I imagine easily who would have ended disappearing or running away to Ireland. Luckily, this stage of events has been left behind and now some kind of peace rules in Ulster.
Musketeer513 said:
Were the Moors "spanish" or not? Maybe they were british...
Now seriously, you have to take into account that Gibraltar and Ceuta/Melilla are different things:
Gibraltar --> Treaty of Utrech
Ceuta/Melilla --> Spanish much before Morocco even existed
They were Moors, not Spaniards. They had invadied Spain in 711. So?
Gibraltar and Melilla and Ceuta are the remains of the Imperial Age, whether you like it or not. Like Hong Kong, with without time limit.
Gibraltar and Melilla and Ceuta are the remains of the Imperial Age, whether you like it or not. Like Hong Kong, with without time limit.
Remnants of Imperial Age? Like Constantinople, perhaps? Have these two territories a different consideration from any other spanish region? Do they have a different passport or denomination? Do they have the same rights as the rest of the spanish?
If they are remnants of an Imperial Age then so are Navarre and Granada, incorporated later. Maybe it is just a geographical question, in a map a country should not have part of it on other continent... again Constantinople.
If they are remnants of an Imperial Age then so are Navarre and Granada, incorporated later. Maybe it is just a geographical question, in a map a country should not have part of it on other continent... again Constantinople.
Condottiero said:
Following your point of view, then so are the Falklands, Wales, Scotland and the Ulster.
Btw, Constatinople?
I agree with you on the geographical question... again, the Ulster.