A better Ottoman Navy for WW1

[mack8]

That is certainly a most interesting possibility. I have looked at the scribbles i made for another thread re german shipyards, and it seems there would be 2 or 3 shipyards that would have space in the period in question (1910-1911) to lay down another ship. They would then have another of the formidable Moltkes at Dogger Bank instead of Blucher. I decided to call this ship Stosch.

On another note, presumably Blucher would outclass Averof if they ever meet in the 1912-13 wars? Any idea what would it be called in ottoman service? Can go with the known Yavuz, but then if Goeben still arrives, what would IT be called?

So if a richer Ottoman Empire can order both Reshadiye and Fatih from Armstrong and Vickers at the same time, and preferably earlier, say 1910, and have them delivered before the war, AND also manages to get Osman in time as well, combined with Blucher, plus Goeben, plus whatever cruisers and destroyers in this TL, then it seems the combined german-ottoman fleet would more or less rampage through the Black Sea as opposed to the OTL situation.

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

APL suggest Seyf-i-Bahri = Sword of the Seas

 

[mack8]

APL suggest Seyf-i-Bahri = Sword of the Seas

Thanks for the suggestion, what is APL?

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

Avalanche Press - make a range of naval war games.

 

[Tizoc]

If the Germans sell the Blucher to the Ottomans in this case, could you see them wanting to have the ship converted to oil from coal since it would be available? With the Ottomans having a steady source of supply could this be a way for the Germans to export some ships that are oiled fired?

Turkey has coalfields in north-west Anatolia, exploited since ~1840 - so there's no point to convert Blucher to oil-firing.

 

[mack8]

Avalanche Press - make a range of naval war games.

Thanks, i couldn't find reference on their site yet to the name you suggested, be nevertheless they gave me some intriguing ideas for other WW1 naval discussions.

 

[neopeius]

Conversion to Oil would occur later, maybe in the 30's. Its unlikely the Ottomans would scrap a ship like the Blucher, even if it was outdated even when purchased. So, like the Averoff in OTL, it will likely have a rebuild and will be converted to Oil at that point.

Regarding the Germans, the ship would have been sold in 1909 (same time as the two joke battleships the Ottomans bought in OTL), so its likely a third Moltke class Battlecruiser would be laid down.

Hey now—I love the Brandenburg class. They're the closest thing to dreadnoughts in the pre-dreadnought age!

 

[Wedgekree]

Was there enough coordination between the Austro-Hungarians and the Ottomans to operate in principle as a fleet in being? Or was Entente naval superiority in the Med so much there was no real point to try and coordinate operations? Such as Gallipoli where even with a mass naval landing for months we never saw (to my knowledge) the Ottomans or AH sally out.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

I think you want to speed up petrol or diesel train to speed up oil extraction in the ottomans.

A lot of the great oil areas didn't have great coal and their links to the rest of the empire was poor. If the Istanbul to Berlin portion of the Berlin to Baghdad train line was to run on petrol or diesel extracted in Iraq and refined locally then oil would be more attractive for current use within the Ottoman empire, rather than for theoretical future use sole to western powers.

Instead of accelerating the development or petrol and diesel traction why not have the steam locomotives burn oil instead of coal?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Turkey has coalfields in north-west Anatolia, exploited since ~1840 - so there's no point to convert Blucher to oil-firing.

What was the quality of the coal? It may be a false memory, but I recall reading that supplying Goeben and Breslau with adequate quantities of steaming coal was a problem IOTL. A ton of oil generates more heat than a ton of coal and oiling is quicker & cleaner than coaling so there would be some point to convert Blucher to oil firing.

 

[Aslangeo]

What was the quality of the coal? It may be a false memory, but I recall reading that supplying Goeben and Breslau with adequate quantities of steaming coal was a problem IOTL. A ton of oil generates more heat than a ton of coal and oiling is quicker & cleaner than coaling so there would be some point to convert Blucher to oil firing.

Turkey mostly produces Lignite or low rank bituminous coals - just about OK for thermal electricity generation, but too poor in quality for high performance warships, which really need anthracite . If oil was available it would be better as you say

 

[Lascaris]

Turkey mostly produces Lignite or low rank bituminous coals - just about OK for thermal electricity generation, but too poor in quality for high performance warships, which really need anthracite . If oil was available it would be better as you say

Zonguldak is hard coal.