Survival of Jacobitism into the 19th Century and Beyond

What would be needed to keep the Jacobites alive as a powerful political and cultural movement well after the 1745 rising? Obviously the first order of the day is to keep the direct Stuart line from James II going, so Bonnie Prince Charlie needs to lock down a good marriage and spawn a few heirs. If Henry Stuart could be convinced to leave the priesthood and sire heirs, that would additionally shore up the Stuart ranks, but not necessarily vital if Mr. and Mrs. Mo Ghile Mear have a few boys.

The trickier problem is how (if at all) can Jacobitism remain a relevant ideology to follow in England, Scotland, and Ireland? Believe me, I'm an ignorant Jacobite-o-boo to boot, but already going into the '45 there was many a problem in the ranks with what exactly the aims of Jacobitism were by the 18th Century. Most of the Scottish rank-and-file were Anti-Unionist Protestants, the Irish wanted their lands back and Catholic emancipation, and by 1745, most English Catholics had thrown in the towel for hopes of the restoration of a Catholic monarch, as seen by the limited welcome and support Charles received from them during his aborted march south.

Perhaps if their are legitimate Stuarts running around by the 1790s - 1800s, if Napoleon is not butterflied away he might see them as a potent weapon to use against the British? Perhaps the development of Irish nationalism can evolve more around installing a Catholic monarch over Ireland rather than the increasingly republican shift (imagine the Stuarts try round 5 in 1798)? Culturally, is there any way the Jacobite romantic revival in the 19th century can potentially spill over into something nasty, especially if there are still Stuart claimants in the mix?

At the very least, what might become of the House of Stuart if it keeps trudging along in exile?
 
Whats the best marriage we might hope for BPC to make? I would assume that to remain relevant for long periods in exile the Stuart’s will need at least good marriages that tie powerful people into supporting them.

I’d imagine it would be a French proxy, but cozy up too close to France and risk being seen as anti-British. Religiously, she’d probably be Catholic, even if a Protestant might be a better long term match. By nation, given the Stuart’s continental base, she is most likely to be an Italian.

Perhaps a princess of Savoy? Princess Maria Felicita (born 1730) is the only one of her three sisters who wasn’t proposed as a match for the Dauphin of France, but is the exiled Duke of Albany too low even for her?

Perhaps Maria Teresa Duchess of Carrara, which would at the very least make him a sovereign prince of an actual territory?

Perhaps his own second cousin Matilda d’Este could be possible, as an attempt to maintain ties with Modena?


EDIT: in fact let’s go back a little farther as well- if Louisa Maria, sister of the old pretender, had survived and the marriage between her and Charles Duke of Berry had gone through, not only would that have given another Jacobite line which can be used for marriage alliances, it also might have allowed the Old Pretender the weight in the French court to marry Louise Adelaide, daughter of the Regent, Phillipe Duke of Orléans.

I know that butterflies away Bonnie Prince Charlie and Henry Benedict, but it means that what issue the old pretender does have will have better shots at good marriages. Instead of the Stuart’s becoming essentially Italian aristocracy for a bit, they become French aristocracy for a bit and that means they’re closer to the real power centres of Europe.

I could potentially see a scenario where an alt war of the polish succession which is accompanied by a failed Jacobite rising in England ends up with a peace settlement whereby the Jacobites are installed in the duchy of Lorraine, on the condition that it returns to France in the event they’re restored in England. From the French perspective, Lorraine is tied securely in the hands of a dynasty that will never organise against France, without provoking fears of French aggrandisement. As dukes of Lorraine, the jacobites are able to continue to make much more prestigious matches as well.
 
Last edited:
If Henry Stuart could be convinced to leave the priesthood and sire heirs,
Henry only joined the clergy after the 45 failed.


Napoleon is not butterflied away he might see them as a potent weapon to use against the British?
He planned to OTL


Whats the best marriage we might hope for BPC to make? I would assume that to remain relevant for long periods in exile the Stuart’s will need at least good marriages that tie powerful people into supporting them.
Depends really. Just marrying his OTL wife's sister could do the trick. She married the duke of Berwick's heir OTL, and their heirs are still running around. He's not getting a king's daughter, but pretty much any royal old maid could do. Frederick the Great was willing to offer both his sister, Anna Amalie, and his niece, Elisabeth of Bayreuth, to Charlie in an attempt to straighten out the mess that was the Sobieski lands in Poland. A daughter of either August III of Poland (so sister of the dauphine) or Emperor Karl VII (not like any of his daughters made what could be called "splendid" matches, OTL). Both a princess of Furstenberg and a niece of the Duchess of Württemberg (Auguste von Thurn und Taxis) were also suggested.


Princess Maria Felicita (born 1730) is the only one of her three sisters who wasn’t proposed as a match for the Dauphin of France,
She wished to be a nun


Perhaps his own second cousin Matilda d’Este could be possible
George II was sniffing around her or one of the Savoyards for Cumberland. Hoping to exclude his favourite son from succeeding in Britain by marrying him to a Catholic (then leaving him Hannover). Unfortunately, Culloden tainted Cumberland in the eyes of both Savoie and Modena. In both instances, the Stuarts would regard such talk as little less than betrayal. BPC tended to take such things personally, after all
 
maybe have jacobitism undergo a full rebranding from catholic absolutism to protestant liberalism?

first off we need to continue the dynasty, so 1st pod is Louise of Stolberg-Gedern gives birth to a male heir in the early 1770s. Let's call him Charles.
it seems iotl Napoleon summoned Louise to Paris in 1809, so ittl he could summon Charles instead and offer to back his claim to the throne.
2nd pod is that, in order to make Charles "IV" more palatable to the british public, Napoleon has him convert to some protestant faith, maybe of the low church variety.
3rd pod: since Charlie is enjoying support of the (post-)revolutionary regime in France, british propaganda chooses to discredit him by falsely attributing him a set of very radical quotes and ideas, w/ the unintended effect of making him popular in radical circles.
4th: the Great Reform Act somehow doesn't pass, leaving a growing urban population dissatisfied and radicalized.
5th: Edward Oxford kills queen Victoria in 1840, bringing Ernest Augustus on the throne.

1848 sees a liberal revolution break out in the british isles and the current jacobite claimant (Charles V? James IV? any other name?) rides its momentum to the crown
 
4th: the Great Reform Act somehow doesn't pass, leaving a growing urban population dissatisfied and radicalized.
5th: Edward Oxford kills queen Victoria in 1840, bringing Ernest Augustus on the throne
At this rate we would be more likely to see a republic than a Stuarts king who had never set foot on British soil even once.
 
At this rate we would be more likely to see a republic than a Stuarts king who had never set foot on British soil even once.
maybe it can go down like in Greece, w/ an early republican stage followed by a monarchy supported by international diplomacy.
or maybe the royal institution is kept/reinstated to act as glue out of fear of centrifugal forces in Scotland?
either way, more likely or not, it's a possible path
 
maybe it can go down like in Greece, w/ an early republican stage followed by a monarchy supported by international diplomacy.
or maybe the royal institution is kept/reinstated to act as glue out of fear of centrifugal forces in Scotland?
either way, more likely or not, it's a possible path
Geography, plus the limited capability of other contemporary European monarchies to project power beyond Europe, simply would not allow that to happen.
 
Napoleon has him convert to some protestant faith, maybe of the low church variety.
why would Nappie oblige him to convert? He was considering sending Jérôme to Spain- and thus Spain would have its first Protestant queen- so trivialities like that did not enter the mind of le petit corporal. Could just be that like his dad and many other monarchs of the late 18th century (Joseph II, Friedrich II, Louis XVIII etc) he has a Charles II-type attitude towards religion. Or maybe the kid is so pissed off by mom's carryings on with Alfieri that he converts out of spite.

Perhaps the Jacobite flame burns strongly in Scotland because of an even more repressive Hannoverian regime post-45. 1789 goes off in France and there's a joint Scots-Irish rebellion. BPC's son lands in Scotland.
 
why would Nappie oblige him to convert?
just the first way to get him to convert that popped up in my head
Or maybe the kid is so pissed off by mom's carryings on with Alfieri that he converts out of spite.
from what i can remember Alfieri was the opposite of a devout catholic, so, imo, a bad relationship w/ the man leading to conversion would be a lil counterintuitive.

other than that, great suggestions
 
There was actually a minor Neo-Jacobite revival amongst artsy right-wing intellectual types in the late 19th and early 20th century, but it was killed off by the Bavarian claiments being on the wrong side of World War One (turns out no one wants to restore the true King over the sea if the true king over the sea is a enemy combatant). Some of the people involved went on to become Fascists, Scottish Nationalists or Reactionaries of other brands. Possible if WWI is avoided or delayed it could have become a more permanant factor in the politics of the radical British right or in Scottish Nationalism. Hell maybe it could bounce back if the Central Powers somehow win.

You could also do some familial alt-history to prevent the Jacobite claim passing to the Wittelsbachs.

As to the possiblity of turning Jacobitism into Protestant Liberalism, that's a bit like saying the Communist Party of Great Britain could have been more sucessful if it was a Conservative party that promoted free trade. You could make into Catholic Liberalism, which is still unlikely, but if you make it Protestant you essentially make it pointless.
 
Last edited:
There was actually a minor Neo-Jacobite revival amongst artsy right-wing intellectual types in the late 19th and early 20th century, but it was killed off by the Bavarian claiments being on the wrong side of World War One (turns out no one wants to restore the true King over the sea if the true king over the sea is a enemy combatant). Some of the people involved went on to become Fascists, Scottish Nationalists or Reactionaries of other brands. Possible if WWI is avoided or delayed it could have become a more permanant factor in the politics of the radical British right or in Scottish Nationalism. Hell maybe it could bounce back if the Central Powers somehow win.
given that George V's government was actually interested in either maintaining the Bavarian monarchy or restoring it during the interwar years, it would be hilarious if the plan is because they don't want the Jacobite claimant setting up shop in Scotland
 
Top