What is a common thing or trope that always seem to happen?
- Thread starter Viking25
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I have read it. The US in SaB is indeed morally mostly-good, but still imperfect. What really interests me there is how Europe goes entirely Rex.
Beatriz
Gone Fishin'
Meant to parallel a more successful Fascism (not Nazism) - Japan making all of Tian China a protectorate wad surprising
More than absent, I would say that the problem is that in many TLs the author and the commentators refuse to recognize that this is happening.
Instead, they will continue to insist on how the country in question is good and exceptional, their actions are nothing other than justice in its purest form, and they couldn't be more right.
So we end up with a country that behaves in a way that makes Nazi Germany look like harmless pranksters but history (and the author and the commentators) will try to convince you that this is more than justified and that "well, that's how it is, shit happens, stop questioning it, tough men make tough decisions, war never changes."
Or alternatively, the author and commentators are trying to give the country a fig leaf "well, they treat LGBT people and Jews well, and they keep shouting about how VERY TOLERANT they are, that means they can't be bad people, the only right thing to do is to support them"...
...despite the fact that what they show is an immensely aggressive, war-mongering, genocidal and proud of being it, imperialist, immensely racist and war-mongering country, which is constantly launching wars of aggression against countries much smaller than them, with casus belli like "because I can" or "I want bases in your country"...
...while this country is being complacent and submissive to those who can actually hit him back.
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Beatriz
Gone Fishin'
Yes but the bigger issue is how even in this version of Draka, logistics is disregarded
This is the only Draka I've read. I see your point, but it's not entirely disregarded. Keep in mind that Britain owned all of Africa bar Western Sahara before Drakan independence. That's enough for Draka to retain control.
Beatriz
Gone Fishin'
Yes, the British owned practically all of Africa and seized Senegal, expanded into Algeria(?) early on with a longer Napoleonic (1st rep) period but I would still expect say, the Maghreb/NW Africa to be more contested and possibly even non-drakan occupied
Here are some things I always see brought up that annoy me:
- No matter what happens, Sweden and Poland-Lithuania can never remain relevant powers ever, no matter what. There is absolutely zero way to fix Poland's government system or increase Sweden's population beyond OTL's level, no matter what. Now obviously Sweden would never be on par with say, imperial Germany or Britain, but they could be somewhere around Austria-Hungary's level of power. A lower population, but a similar economy and a far better military.
- If World War I doesn't happen, the world will stay the same forever, because everyone knows that without senselessly killing each other by the millions society can never advance.
- If World War I doesn't happen, the world will be a paradise, and the private sector will advance technology faster than OTL despite no big government spending on science. Also, Russia becomes a hyper-industrialized superpower with 800 million people and an economy twice the size of OTL's United States.
- No matter when the PoD is, multiethnic empires will always fall apart in the 19th-20th centuries. Austria-Hungary, Russia, and the Ottomans were always doomed to collapse no matter what.
- If the Byzantine Empire survives, it will be a despotic, autocratic, backwards state that will disintegrate due to ethnic tensions in the 1880s-1910s.
- Germany will always become autocratic and attempt to genocide everyone east of them to the Urals, and if they get colonies in Africa, they will immediately round up the natives and attempt to exterminate them. Imperial Germany will always try to start wars for no reason other than sheer evilness and must be stopped by the peace, freedom, and democracy loving Entente. Weimar Germany will always go fascist, and Germany will start another war no matter what.
- The Nazis could have totally won the war if they just did *insert thing here* differently! Just ignore that they only got as far as they did in OTL due to sheer dumb luck and allied incompetence. If you actually compare the Wehrmacht to pretty much any major allied army, the allies were better in basically every way. The sheer gap in population, industrial might, and resources between the USSR, British Empire, and United States compared to the Axis is simply overwhelming. I'm not even convinced that the Nazis could take the USSR in a 1v1 without having to worry about the Wallies, even if the Soviets don't get lend-lease. The sheer dysfunction, corruption, and incompetence of the Nazi state is staggering. The Wehrmacht had worse tanks, planes, artillery, and guns than any of the allies, who also had far better communication, intelligence, and logistics. For all of their much vaunted Nazi science, the allies were more advanced than the Nazis in basically every way. The Nazis sucked, and people only think they're competent due to sheer dumb luck, allied incompetence, and propaganda.
- Conversely, the Central Powers were doomed to defeat no matter what, ignoring the fact that the war was far closer than WWII ever was. The Entente still could have won without the US, but the CP also could have won.
- If the Roman Empire survives it must be stagnant and backwards, no matter what.
- The industrial revolution could only take place in 18th century Britain. Anywhere else or any other time is completely ASB.
- If the Germans didn't start World War II, the Soviets would have, because Stalin is just as bad as Hitler. Just ignore the fact that Hitler and the Nazis killed more than six million people based on racial pseudoscience, killed 20 million Soviets, and would have killed the vast majority of them had they won, while Stalin only killed people as a means to an end, not the end itself. Don't get me wrong, Stalin was bad, and killing millions of people is bad, but he's nowhere near as bad as Hitler, and he wouldn't have started a war. He was far too cautious and pragmatic for that.
The destruction of large amounts of resources and people (including many scientific minds, as in actual, not just potential) tend to stunt scientific advancements, yes. Without the world wars (OTL, alt equivalent, etc.) the private sector and civilian consumer tech will certainly advance faster than OTL... but of course that isn't as sexy from the outside perspective looking in (Orion space battleship will always be more sexy than smartphones). Also industrial R&D was already a thing by the late 19th century. The Dreadnought race required quite a bit of scientific advancements in a number of fields.
Of course, this is assuming a lack of a major conflict flaring up, which it very well might, but that's not the point I'm trying to argue here.
And yes, this is my pet peeve. I don't believe in the wars create innovation faster doctrine.
To be fair to this one, while Poland still has some chance at being saved, Sweden is more complicated because they are competing with Danes, Poles, Germans and Russians for supremacy while lacking the population and size of the latter three, possibly the best shot they have is conquering Denmark-Norway and continuing their ambitions on Hamburg and northern Germany, because trying to fight Russia will see them defeated in the long run
I'm not saying things won't advance, but stuff like rocketry, which is essential for satellites, probably won't happen without massive government spending and the impetus of the wars.
Sweden won't ever have the population of Russia, true. But they can certainly increase their population beyond otl's level, and if they win the Great Northern War they'd have Poland Lithuania as an ally.
Agreed this is a common trope I see. They conflate it with Russia due to how heavily influenced it was by the Empire. The trope is about as logical as having a surviving Western Roman Empire have the same sorts of political developments as the HRE or Carolingian France.
A surviving Byzantine Empire, well depending on the pod, completely changes the dynamics of Eurasia and thus its geopolitical and socioeconomic development. It would massively change the trajectory of Christendom too with Rome still having its rival sister See still going strong. Considering how Henry VIII briefly flirted with converting to Orthodoxy, if something like the reformation starts to take hold, we might instead end up with something more influenced by Orthodox Christianity instead. Then again without the hubris brought by Connstantinople being taken out and Rome seeing itself as the sole authority within Christendom, we might not even have a Protestant Reformation.
Another trope I see is France having a Revolution. In otl, it took a specific set of circumstances heaped on each other for it even to get to that point. Initially during the Age of Enlightenment, the philosophers you see championing virtues of more democratic ideas and egalitarianism were in favor of strong monarchical regimes as they thought that would protect them and the people from a tyrannical aristocracy. If Louis XV didn't botch the peace of Aix La Chapelle then the monarchy's popularity wouldn't have taken such a dangerous blow.
Heck if you avoid the sudden and catastrophic Bourbon die-off of the eighteenth century (From disease), the French Royal House would have been strengthened and Louis XIV would have been succeeded by adults instead of his five year old great grandson. France would have been more stable and the regent wouldn't have needed to restore the Parlements which in otl blocked desperately needed fiscal reform in France. With this France actually does reform, and its economy would eventually start to skyrocked as it can finally mobilize its wealth of resources and population like how Britain was able to.
Not necessarily. As a lack of wars occurring doesn't remove the potential of wars (especially as those ITTL would not have meta knowledge like the writers/authors), and rocketry would have to happen as traditional artillery reached a point beyond the practical (probably bigger than 800mm of OTL, but they'll probably reach that point earlier as well). Not to mention with more time a lot of the smaller parts of rocketry development would have been conducted by large companies looking for the next transportation & shipping breakthrough (most will fail/flop, but the R&D data remains).
This also applies to many other tech, because by the late 19th century there are multiple companies that have the resources that rival national governments, and both are very well aware of the need to innovate to get ahead.
I find these two particularly annoying because they are treated as if they were little less than physical laws as inviolable as that of gravity or the Earth's orbit.
When in many cases the double standard is noted, as in the Peru-California example (basically, the same geographic characteristics that are highlighted as the causes of Peru's failure are highlighted as California's most powerful assets).
Stalin's constantly appears even if the POD discussed is something with little or no relation (for example, the results of the 1932 elections in Ireland, it doesn't matter, there will always be someone who puts in "ah, but this will undoubtedly be affected by Stalin's attack on the rest of Europe").
TBH I wish we would see more TL’s about Britain being the potential starting point for a revolution instead of France, like no matter the TL short of foreign invasion or a syndicalist revolution(lets be real only because Kaiserreich is a thing), Britain’s system of Constitutional Monarchy is shockingly durable in most TLs.....I mean Look to the West had it become a Republic after the royals fled to America, and I guess the Iron Eagle had Edward VIII manage to overthrow the elected parliament following a Nazi Victory(Which considering OTL Edward’s very short list of achievements I can’t really buy), but still.
Or one where they dont industrialize in time and instead are just a chill land of shepherds where it rains a lot
Like the whole steriotype of Ireland and New Zealand put together but its Britain