HELP: The Nazis and Japan take over the world

The Germans and Japanese can't conquer the world. Large swaths of it, perhaps. But not the entire globe.

On an aside, wouldn't draining the Mediterranean create a mass desert rather than farmland and wreck havoc with the environment of the rest of Europe?
 
In Philip K. Dick's great novel (which I rank in the top ten of all American novels) it is not entirely clear if the Germany-Japan Wank really exists or is just a hallucination in the head of a novelist in the Rocky Mountains. Dick did not intend it as a serious alternate history scenario. He was writing counterculture science-fiction with an entirely different intent. I can't see any POD that could produce victory for Germany and Japan unless you go back so far that everything would be changed and you wouldn't end up with anything remotely resembling our WW II. The best you can do is for the Nazis to hold out long enough that the U.S. gets to drop A-bombs on them. If you want to develop a Germany-Japan victory scenario, you have to develop it as an Alien Space Bats scenario (great fun, and I urge you to do so), but that is in a separate subforum.

A novel you may find useful in developing such a scenario is Patton's Spaceship, Vol. One of the Timeline Wars series by John Barnes. The space bats are in this case paratime conspirators representing a really evil crosstime civilization that encourages Nazis in each relevant timeline throughout the multiverse. The heros of the embattled Allies fighting on from Tibet and Southeast Asia are Patton, Ho Chi Minh, Allen Ginsberg, etc. With a little help from the Paratime Patrol (the good guys).
 
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I have a meta-suggestion: some threads should have [Pulp] or [ASB] (actually using parentheses instead of brackets is fine too) in the title, to indicate that the idea is meant to be very low to nil plausible, but not meant to be the type of over-the-top fantasy or sci-fi of the ASB forum. Magical realism instead of actual magic.
 
There's a degree of ASB. I don't want to have to go all of the way to ASB to look at Southern Victory or Hitler Victorious or rewrites of Draka type timelines, all of which are ASB in premise to begin with.
 
I don't think a Confederate victory in the Civil War or a limited Hitler victory in Europe is ASB. Plausible PODs can account for either of these outcomes. But a total conquest of the world by Germany and Japan DOES require ASBs.
 
Well, I'm thinking of the type that appears in pop AH, or rather published works. President Lindbergh and Nazis make it all the way to the Urals and zepplins everywhere, and all that. Trent Affair actually takes place and WWI happens except the U.S. is in the Central Powers. All of that is built into the popular conception of AH, and certainly helps to keep the genre creative and fanciful, but it's hardly plausible.

Let's just say that as implausible as The Man in the High Castle is, I don't want to have to go all of the way into the ASB subforum to read something based off of it. Maybe Books and Media, but that's as far as I go.
 
Look what I started :) LOL.

Guys... don't "fight" on my account. From what I can see I'm just gonna have to develop the most likely scenario on my own. From my research it's clear that the Germans could very well have developed the atom bomb first. It's not far fetched, and then the next step would be for them to use it. They could have easily did what we did with Hiroshima and target New York with it. In which case we probably would have surrendered just like the Japanese did.

As for the P.K. Dick novel as far as I can tell the man in the high castle is writing a novel that describes what REALLY happened historically and the irony is that he is writing it in the alternate reality world where the Japanese and German's won.

So yeah... I'm just going to work this out on my own. It was worth a shot and I really appreciate what little help you guys gave.

But I do have to say that what I had in mind has nothing to do with that asb-thingamajigg you guys keep referring to. That's just waaaay out there. :p

Best,

Darian
 
From my research it's clear that the Germans could very well have developed the atom bomb first. It's not far fetched, and then the next step would be for them to use it. They could have easily did what we did with Hiroshima and target New York with it. In which case we probably would have surrendered just like the Japanese did.


Good god...

I thought they'd all leave when the school semesters started again. You all said not to worry because they'd all leave when the school semesters started again. The school semesters have started again and, not only are they all still here, even more of them are showing up. :confused:

Why haven't they left? Why are more of them showing up?
 

Teleology

Banned
Come on guys, Axis victories of pretty wanktastic proportions are not only an AH standard but quite common to this very board.

Why, a favorite for some and dreaded cliche for others is Rommel getting the tanks he needs to push through the British in Egypt and take the Middle-East, thus fueling the Axis war machine and allowing the Germans to invade Russia from West and South simultaneously, perhaps catching Stalin in Moscow with his pants down before men and material can be evacuated to Eastward (thus preventing the Ruskies from being able to withdraw and let the Russian Winter kill the Nazis for them).

With German/Italy having knocked out the Soviet Union for all intents and purposes, gorged themselves on the world's oil reserves, and put themselves in the position of making the Mediterranean an Axis lake, things look grim for Britain and the U.S. has not joined the war yet (with the gleeful Japanese seizing Soviet Vladivostok and inspiring native troops to mutiny in India, rather than turning to Pearl Harbor).

With the wave of Axis victories, Latin America goes fascist in a big way. Vargas stops playing coy and Integralist Brazil pipes up alongside Argentina in support of Germany, Peru and Chile look to Japan and the Columbians want any help they can get taking the Panama canal. A Sinarquista revolt in Mexico gives the U.S. the opportunity to enter the show, though.

While the Yanks are mopping up from Veracruz to Buenos Ares, the Brits sue for peace with the Germans in order to focus on the Pacific, only for the British fleet and far too many brave Aussies to lose their lives against the Japanese (with stiff support from the new Indian Republic). The failure to liberate Southeast Asia and the fall of Hong Kong, after the humiliation of making peace with Germany, causes an isolationist phase; with Australia, no longer confident that the Commonwealth can protect it, becoming a fortress unto itself unwilling to risk its longterm survival on further ventures.


By the time the US has shown itself to be a global superpower like no other by finishing up in the Americas, the Germans have puppet states going in Iran and N. India and the Latin Fascists (French State, Fascist Italy, Franco's Spain) have taken Free French West Africa and consolidated North Africa. Most disturbingly, in that time the Union of Fascists took over Britain in order to make it a "equal in the New World Order" rather than the sick man of Europe, with similar occurrences in apartheid South Africa and in Yellow Peril obsessed (though not without reason) Fortress Australasia.

The Americas (with the British royals having moved to Canada) and the German-backed Fascist sphere are nuclear superpowers, with the Americas outproducing and outpacing in terms of research the Fascists by quite a lot.

The Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is cracking, with the Japanese-backed southern India Republic disintegrating in it's increasingly Hindu Fascist anti-muslim bent, with sympathetic Islamic revolts in Indonesia taxing Japanese manpower. With Indian troops being recalled to fight the Bangladeshi separatists, Southeast Asian Sphere "members" are getting nationalist ideas. And the Sphere was never able to get beyond the coast into Nationalist South China, much less crack the rump-Soviet/Chinese-communist "Eurasian Soviets" nut.

Simply put, the Co-Prosperity Sphere is up for grabs - the question is whether the German Bloc or the US Bloc will get their first. A limited nuclear strike could decapitate what capabilities in that area the Sphere has, the only thing lacking until this point has been the political will. As soon as the Sphere became fragile enough that mass invasion seemed like a good prospect, the worldwide nuclear standoff made it seem like a very bad idea. But now the Americans (and their allies) and Germans (and their allies) are getting antsy, and both sides are considering it well worth the potential risk to swoop into East Asia.

The question is, will it be German missiles from North India ("Hindustan") and Iran, or those new interhemispheric missiles from the American Bloc?
 
Good god...

I thought they'd all leave when the school semesters started again. You all said not to worry because they'd all leave when the school semesters started again. The school semesters have started again and, not only are they all still here, even more of them are showing up. :confused:

Why haven't they left? Why are more of them showing up?

Unfortunately they seem to breed like b***y bunnies...:(

As it is hitting them over the head with facts is turning into AH's version of whack-a-mole..(whack-a-sealion?)
 

Cook

Banned
Good god...

I thought they'd all leave when the school semesters started again. You all said not to worry because they'd all leave when the school semesters started again. The school semesters have started again and, not only are they all still here, even more of them are showing up. :confused:

Why haven't they left? Why are more of them showing up?

I don’t know but if they don’t get off my lawn I’m getting the shotgun.
:mad:
 
Just an FYI to all those sarcastic individuals here... I'm 35 and I am originally from Europe. Did all my education there and we all know how much stronger the education system is in Europe, compared to the U.S.

So, thanks for the "warm" welcome. And yes, I'm being... ahem... sarcastic.
 
As for the P.K. Dick novel as far as I can tell the man in the high castle is writing a novel that describes what REALLY happened historically and the irony is that he is writing it in the alternate reality world where the Japanese and German's won.

Not exactly - The Grasshopper Lies Heavy isn't OTL but rather how someone in an Axis-wank timeline might write an Allied victory scenario. In TGLH, Rex Tugwell became President after Roosevelt; Hitler is captured alive and tried by the Allies; Germany and Italy are completely broken up and all of Europe is apparently absorbed into a stronger Commonwealth of Nations; the RoC wins the Chinese Civil War; and Russia is divided into British and American spheres of influence. However, a major theme of the novel is that the Axis victory it apparently portrays is an illusion (which Mr. Tagomi briefly shakes off whilst contemplating the nature of reality, which allows him to see what is either our reality or the world of TGLH). From what I've read Dick intended to further develop the reality-shifting aspect of TMITHC in the planned sequel, which ended up getting scrapped and bits of it cannibalised for use in VALIS.
 
Just an FYI to all those sarcastic individuals here... I'm 35 and I am originally from Europe. Did all my education there and we all know how much stronger the education system is in Europe, compared to the U.S.

So, thanks for the "warm" welcome. And yes, I'm being... ahem... sarcastic.

A quick tip:
do not frown, all this is quite usual.
Better to get accustomed to thread-Flaming.
Otherwise, do not enter in the AH klitchen
 

Cook

Banned
Ok, the problem is that you asked for help and opinions, saying you wanted to base it on:

...I'm trying to base all this on the most likely scenario based on Nazi Germany's and Japan's ambitions, capabilities and limitations as well as the decisions of countries of the world to either fight by joining together in an alliance against Japan or Germany, or submit to one of them. Which country would side with Japan and which one would side with Germany? ...

Your opinions would help a lot.



And when we tell you that it was beyond not only the capabilities, but also the ambitions of the Axis powers you don’t like what we say.

Do you want realism, in which case you need to downgrade your Axis global ambitions, or do you want the Global Axis fantasy?
 
Well, I know how boards can get, but I still maintain that there is no need for even a fraction of the stuff that people usually get away with. It doesn't get them anywhere.

And yes, I asked for opinions and an honest discussion or debate if that's how things went. I didn't ask for childish behavior.

Anyway, like I said... I'm just gonna work this out on my own. But thanks to Teleology for a detailed deconstruction of sorts. Right on!
 
I have a meta-suggestion: some threads should have [Pulp] or [ASB] (actually using parentheses instead of brackets is fine too) in the title, to indicate that the idea is meant to be very low to nil plausible, but not meant to be the type of over-the-top fantasy or sci-fi of the ASB forum. Magical realism instead of actual magic.

I think that's actually an appealing idea. But the people who would be most likely to be interested in pulp AH would be those new to the boards and would not know to use it and we would probably have a hard time getting them to add it to their thread titles, even if it was for their own good in reducing the number of people jumping down their throats. I rarely go to the ASB forum because most of the stuff is too over-the-top and full of non-sequiturs, but I would like to read some pulp AH every now and again.
 
Just an FYI to all those sarcastic individuals here... I'm 35 and I am originally from Europe. Did all my education there and we all know how much stronger the education system is in Europe, compared to the U.S.

So, thanks for the "warm" welcome. And yes, I'm being... ahem... sarcastic.

A high school diploma in Europe is worth almost a C.C. two year degree in the US. But that's where the US catches up with Europe. The higher you go past high school, the further you reach the levels in european high schools and colleges. That's why so many crossover to this side of the pond for post-graduate work. The problem in the US is the lamentable state of inner-city schooling. The problem in Europe is the competition for slots in their "ivy league" universities is so brutal fewer good students get that far. A student that wishes to choose between Yale and Oxford may find Yale slightly easier to get into despite the fact that the student has the credentials neccesary for both universities. In America, you have opportunities to play "catch up" at levels where in Europe you have already been passed by.:(

BTW, OP: There was a wargame called: "Tomorrow The World!" based on this concept. I'll see if I can find it.
 
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