An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania

Granted it is certainly not in the top 3 most defensible locations, being hemmed by a river eliminates one of the fronts you need to watch out for when your only opponent can only attack landwards. If that isn't enough, a massive anabranch/distributary of the Tigris can be created around the city to form a humongous moat. It being the point where the rivers meet is a plus for Northern Mesopotamian defense, given that any invading army will most likely have to surpass you to advance. Given, its strategic importance, I'm sure Rhomaion will create a bastion and possibly a polygonal fortress that will prove a hard nut to crack. The city falling before relief forces arrive just sounds like lazy fortification effort to me. Is there a compelling reason why it can't hold out like Thessalonika or Candia did ITTL? I agree that pacifying the surrounding area will be tough and a client state will face less resistance but is there any reason not to garrison the city at least?
I wasn't assuming that the Rhomans would update the fortifications, just use what's extant.

Is the cost of building such a bastion really worth it? What if you lose it to angry locals or an invading army with better logistics? As B444 said it will be far easier for a Persian state to project power into Mesopotamia than an Aegean one, they would benefit more from such a massive fort than the Rhomans would.

Speaking of Agriculture whatever happened to egypt being an agricultural juggarnaught? Is it possible that with better farming tactics that Egypt could reclaim its spot as being the bread basket of the empire?
It never lost it.
Egyptian grain was and remains one of the most important sources of food for much of the Mediterranean, especially in the east. Farming tactics in Egypt are not likely to change anytime soon, frankly they don't need to. Egypt's success in agriculture is due to the annual flooding of the Nile that gives nutrients to the soil. Everywhere else in the world has to figure out how to do what nature has done in Egypt for millenia. That's where most agricultural innovation came IOTL, and is primarily related to nitrogen fixing into the soil. The only developments that really helped Egyptian agriculture IOTL around this point was mechanization and that's not due for another 200 years. Even the introduction of the Potato did not make waves in Egypt, since the Potato's tremendous value to nutrition was its superhuman ability (superplant? Supertuber? I like that one. It rhymes.) ability to grow pretty much anywhere on whatever sort of soil with little preparation. Egypt doesn't have such marginal land outside of traditional cultivation available to it. If the land isn't being cultivated for agriculture in Egypt then that's because it's desert.
 
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It never lost it.
Egyptian grain was and remains one of the most important sources of food for much of the Mediterranean, especially in the east. Farming tactics in Egypt are not likely to change anytime soon, frankly they don't need to. Egypt's success in agriculture is due to the annual flooding of the Nile that gives nutrients to the soil. Everywhere else in the world has to figure out how to do what nature has done in Egypt for millenia. That's where most agricultural innovation came IOTL, and is primarily related to nitrogen fixing into the soil. The only developments that really helped Egyptian agriculture IOTL around this point was mechanization and that's not due for another 200 years. Even the introduction of the Potato did not make waves in Egypt, since the Potato's tremendous value to nutrition was its superhuman ability (superplant? Supertuber? I like that one. It rhymes.) ability to grow pretty much anywhere on whatever sort of soil with little preparation. Egypt doesn't have such marginal land outside of traditional cultivation available to it. If the land isn't being cultivated for agriculture in Egypt then that's because it's desert.
Interesting, though don't you think that Scythia is a powerful competitor of Egypt in Roman markets? And because of Egypt's status as being intensively cultivated, Scythian grain cultivation capacity is probably rising much faster than the Egyptian. I will concede that because of the commercial inclusion of Egypt directly into the Roman sphere, Egypt is Rhomania's largest supplier of grain; but I don't think Scythia is far behind.
 
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Interesting, though don't you think that Scythia is a powerful competitor of Egypt in Roman markets? And because of Egypt's status as being intensively cultivated, Scythian grain cultivation capacity is probably rising much faster than the Egyptian. I will concede that because of the commercial inclusion of Egypt directly into the Roman sphere, Egypt is Rhomania's largest supplier of grain; but I don't think Scythia is far behind.
Scythia has more room to grow yes but the question wasn't about if they would eventually be bigger.

That being said Scythia would probably eclipse Egypt in grain production. The black soils of Ukraine are famous just like Egypt's Nile, though I don't know how fertile they are in direct comparison. Total arable acreage in modern Ukraine is some 40 million hectares, Egypt's is about 3. This value can of course change depending on management of land but the point is Ukrain has WAY more farmland than Egypt. It doesn't matter how much fertility the Nile gives when the land quantity is so grossly out of proportion.

That being said, Egypt is also far more densely populated. Modern Egypt doesn't export much food, because they eat what they produce, and I don't see that trend changing much. Egypt's geography lends itself to urbanization since everyone lives on a thin Nile-shaped belt of land. Per acre Egypt is absolutely going to out-compete everyone else who tries unless you're in an agricultural super-zone like California.

Ukraine meanwhile has the opposite problem of underdevelopment. You can just float everything along the Nile to get to Alexandria for export but in Ukraine you need to cart it to one of the major rivers before doing so, that costs money. Egyptian grain would thus have a competitive advantage in that regard as the low cost to export would make their grain cheaper on an international market, even if Ukraine has higher potential for cultivated land.

Give it a few hundred years of population growth in Ukraine and relative peace to allow for economic and infrastructural development and they will leagues ahead of Egypt. What kept Ukraine back historically was the constant presence of Tatar raids that damaged infrastructure, harmed commerce, kept the population low, and prevented colonization of farmland. This was facilitated by the Ottoman Empire to keep their rivals in Poland and Russia weaker. Once Russia obtained southern Ukraine in the 18th century it embarked on a process of colonization that greatly expanded cultivated land in what is today Ukraine. Since ITTL Scythia has one hell of a head start it's already well on its way to beat Egypt in total agricultural production. Though it could run into the same problem as modern Egypt, growing a non-agricultural sector large enough to consume its agricultural produce. This is not a problem per se, especially if you're a state trying to be self-sufficient, but it would be problematic for cheap grain export. The higher the percentage of farmers to non-farmers means more surplus food and thus cheaper food. This naturally makes more non-farmers because food is cheap. It remains to be seen how Scythia's urban development has gone, since I don't recall it being specified much, but it's well on its way to become a pretty densely populated zone of the world.
 
men and the money
thematic army
Maybe a new thematic army in Mosul and Kirkuk? A co-garrison with local collaborationists, Omanis, Georgians and Russians could do the trick too. Convince the coalition that it is an investment that will safeguard all their interests. Ape together strong.

effectively besieged
Create a rock hard enough, and eventually even the most reticent and headstrong enemy will tire of bashing his head into the rock over and over again.

As B444 said it will be far easier for a Persian state to project power into Mesopotamia than an Aegean one, they would benefit more from such a massive fort than the Rhomans would.
Yes, ultimately, it will all boils down to creating a perfect balance between defensibility and benefits. Northern Mesopotamia is in comfortable territory, Southern Mesopotamia overstretches the Roman lines but Baghdad, just nice and a natural extension of current holdings that with time and effort will prove to be immense beneficial. Change saying "I can't afford it" to "How can I afford this?". Regard it as a high risk high reward investment. Rome wasn't built in a day. Rhomaion in the East is orders of magnitude further away and surrounded too by hostile powers. The might of the navy is the only thing ensuring its survival and expensive. Yet, no one questions the expenses because everyone knows that high investment ensures the continuous flow of spices and gold, similar to how Baghdad guarantees trade and safety of Syria and Northern Mesopotamia.
Remember that Benjamin Franklin said "Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges. Turn your Attention therefore first to your remotest Provinces; that as you get rid of them, the next may follow in Order." If Baghdad is fortified once and for all, it will provide compounding benefits to all of Northern Mesopotamia that will only get better with time while upkeep gets easier as the population is won over. IF properly managed, the huge investment can be recouped and even huge dividends can be reaped.

Scythia has more room
Note however, that most of Ukraine's fertile zone lies in TTL Lithuania. Scythia is essentially OTL's Novorossiya Governorate which was previously named Stepovnya (Steppeland)
 
Note however, that most of Ukraine's fertile zone lies in TTL Lithuania. Scythia is essentially OTL's Novorossiya Governorate which was previously named Stepovnya (Steppeland)
I know. Almost all of what I was talking about was to apply to south and east Ukraine. Steppeland there is still rich in Chernozems, even if it has 1-2% less organic matter than in northwest (Which is 4-5% organic matter) it's still highly fertile land.
 
Maybe a new thematic army in Mosul and Kirkuk? A co-garrison with local collaborationists, Omanis, Georgians and Russians could do the trick too. Convince the coalition that it is an investment that will safeguard all their interests. Ape together strong.
Not a bad idea, but it'd take a couple of years for this new thematic army to be a significant and effective fighting force.
Plus, any collaborationists would occasionally have the displeasure of attacking rebels of their own region.
Plus, this thematic army in particular might be susceptible to bribery and suborning, even if, as one would expect, it will be corseted by firm Roman veterans and consist of a sizable amount of immigrants, the Georgians and Russians you mentioned.
Plus, a point that I will elaborate upon in the next part:

Create a rock hard enough, and eventually even the most reticent and headstrong enemy will tire of bashing his head into the rock over and over again.
Whoever is in charge of the Roman treasury must be howling in agony. The expenses of fighting two wars, repairing Bulgaria and Macedonia, repairing and integrating northern Mesopotamia, along with now repairing and integrating Central Mesopotamia, raising at least one, if not two new thematic armies, and building fortresses across a longer frontier, culminating in your monster of a citadel at Baghdad. I highly doubt that Mesopotamian loot and Ottoman reparations can cover all that.

Change saying "I can't afford it" to "How can I afford this?".
How can we afford this?

Short answer: Drain half of the whole treasury on an unstable rebellious frontier province for at least five years straight.

Long answer: Depending on Odysseus' long-term strategy, the prospect ranges from 'rather risky' to 'f--k-all impossible'. To be clear, the wealth of Mesopotamia is derived primarily from the people of that land and the fertile land they work. Interregional trade is also significant, yes, but not that important, especially since for the last 150 years or so Mesopotamia's closest trade relations were with the Persian provinces, not Syria or Armenia. The reconfiguration of Mesopotamian economy from east to west will take a lot of time and money, as new infrastructure projects have to be built on a massive scale, at a time when more critical parts of the empire need immediate investments.
This will doubtless be compounded by the... unpleasantness that is bound to occur in Muslim-majority Mesopotamia.
Don't talk about Andreas the Victor's empire, because that dream is dead. The Roman Empire is a Christian Empire, and while it is somewhat better with Muslims than the Latin powers' (nonexistent) Muslim minorities, that is no big achievement.
Odysseus may try, and perhaps will succeed to some extent, in rehabilitating Islam in Imperial society, but the scars of the Time of Troubles remain. And many Muslims of Mesopotamia may decide to leave of their own voilition. While this makes integration a smidge easier, it also reduces the wealth produced by the land.

Rhomaion in the East is orders of magnitude further away and surrounded too by hostile powers. The might of the navy is the only thing ensuring its survival and expensive. Yet, no one questions the expenses because everyone knows that high investment ensures the continuous flow of spices and gold, similar to how Baghdad guarantees trade and safety of Syria and Northern Mesopotamia.
Remember that Benjamin Franklin said "Empire, like a great Cake, is most easily diminished at the Edges. Turn your Attention therefore first to your remotest Provinces; that as you get rid of them, the next may follow in Order." If Baghdad is fortified once and for all, it will provide compounding benefits to all of Northern Mesopotamia that will only get better with time while upkeep gets easier as the population is won over. IF properly managed, the huge investment can be recouped and even huge dividends can be reaped.
Rhomania-in-the-East is also far more lucrative and productive than Mesopotamia, and will remain so for at least a decade. Pushing the buffer south gives more land filled with unhappy rebellious peoples, more empty unproductive land due to some of said peoples fleeing to Persia (and given how Bulgaria and Macedonia are safer and nearer regions than Mesopotamia, how many settlers do you think will hazard their chances in the last?), a longer and therefore more expensive border to defend and a flank dangerously exposed (even counting the Zagros within Roman hands, Khuzestan could still be in Persian hands, raising the possibility of outflanking this defense).

To conclude: while the rewards are impressive as you've rightly pointed out, I believe the risks are too great. With a Roman treasury completely exhausted and Roman capabilities dangerously overstretched, who's to stop, say, a renewed Triune-Ottoman-Spanish assault on the empire?
 
building fortresses across a longer frontier
I mentioned that Baghdad would serve as the gatehouse to Al-Jazira/Northern Mesopotamia. Instead of the border going from Kirkuk to say Deir Ez-zur, the length of the border from Kirkuk to Baghdad is the same (around 330 km) so that is not really a longer frontier, just a border that pivots less than 90 degrees forward. Baghdad is considered a flank only in the same way Armenia is currently outflanked by Tabriz and Mosul so I don't think that's a big issue too.

more empty unproductive land due to some of said peoples fleeing
Saves the trouble of having to scorch the earth when Ottomans come a calling.

who's to stop, say, a renewed Triune-Ottoman-Spanish assault
Triunes - their own fatigue holding down new provinces in Lotharingia
Ottomans - Khazaria, Georgia, Ethiopia, Oman, Vijaynagar, the Sikh Confederacy and their own Turco-Persian tensions (Don't forget the pain in the ass Afghans too)
Spanish - I think the Rhomans can focus on one foe - especially near home
I think this coalition pales in comparison to the Latin-Ottoman simultaneous assault as that was the mother of all early modern period wars and Rhomaion survived that even without many allies for a prolonged period of time.

I mean most of the expenses you mentioned are most likely going to happen even without Baghdad. In the grand scheme of things, one extra fortification will still be costly but be like a flea on a camel or like adding chewing gum to your shopping trolley at the checkout counter when compared to the grand total. Might as well get it
 
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I mentioned that Baghdad would serve as the gatehouse to Al-Jazira/Northern Mesopotamia. Instead of the border going from Kirkuk to say Deir Ez-zur, the length of the border from Kirkuk to Baghdad is the same (around 330 km) so that is not really a longer frontier, just a border that pivots less than 90 degrees forward. Baghdad is considered a flank only in the same way Armenia is currently outflanked by Tabriz and Mosul so I don't think that's a big issue too.


Saves the trouble of having to scorch the earth when Ottomans come a calling.


Triunes - their own fatigue holding down new provinces in Lotharingia
Ottomans - Khazaria, Georgia, Ethiopia, Oman, Vijaynagar, the Sikh Confederacy and their own Turco-Persian tensions (Don't forget the pain in the ass Afghans too)
Spanish - I think the Rhomans can focus on one foe - especially near home
I think this coalition pales in comparison to the Latin-Ottoman simultaneous assault as that was the mother of all early modern period wars

I mean most of the expenses you mentioned are most likely going to happen even without Baghdad. In the grand scheme of things, one extra fortification will still be costly but be like a flea on a camel or like adding chewing gum to your shopping trolley at the checkout counter when compared to the grand total. Might as well get it
Agreed, they have had a rough few decades, it does appear they have arrived on the other side of that. Revenues will increase, fortressed cities can be built over a few decades. Soldiers in a garrison need to be kept busy, if not building themselves, supervising workers. The soldiers need to be payed whatever they are doing. We are not talking about a society that thinks in years, but in decades at the least when they are strong.
 
On another note i wonder if Roman coins in the 1600s look as dopey as they did otl

I mean what the hell where they smoking when they made the coin with theadora on it she looks like a muppet or something lmao
 

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On another note i wonder if Roman coins in the 1600s look as dopey as they did otl

I mean what the hell where they smoking when they made the coin with theadora on it she looks like a muppet or something lmao
Well I would assume engraving and molding technology would have greatly improved some as OTL, though might still take another century to get the level of detail we are used to.
 
To me the Kirkurk to Baghdad border with an an Iskandar run despotate of South-southern Mesopotamia+the piece of the Arabian Peninsula the Ottomans control really makes the most sense From a defensive and economic sense to me for the Romans. That said I can also understand leaving Baghdad in the despotates hands even if long term it makes more sense to turn the city into a rock that the Persians are constantly hitting their head against. If the plan was to do it to Mosul anyway then moving it a bit south to Baghdad isn’t that hard.

People are acting like D3 is still holding the purse strings when they talk about money. Most kings aren’t as frugal as he is.
 
What would a Despotate in southern Mesopotamia even be called? I guess the despotate of works fine but i wonder if there are any more suiting names for it. The Despotate of Babylonia perhaps?
 
Roman (?) Mesopotamia Pt. 2: Some have pointed out that if Rhomania focused on Mesopotamia, it could hold it. I’ll concede that, but here’s why that would be a really bad and harmful decision to make for the Romans.

Let’s say the Romans decide to focus on holding Mesopotamia. What makes you think the rest of the world will cooperate? The Romans don’t know that their western border is secure and that Theodor was the last existential threat from that quarter. They can’t know that and can’t take the risk. If they decide they’re safe from Europe and throw all their forces into Mesopotamia, that action will, by consequence, make them unsafe from Europe.

Let me explain.

A Roman army marches into and seizes Mesopotamia for the purpose of holding it. The Turkish population, the majority, is absolutely not going to be loyal. The Shia Arabs might, but that is not guaranteed, and they’re a minority and concentrated in the south that is the region hardest for the Romans to hold because of distance.

So there’s 2 choices. One, destroy or expel the local populace. Leaving aside the humanitarian horror, the tax base is wiped out. And the source of supplies for any garrisons. So all the material and supplies for said garrisons needs to be transported from the original themes. This will really not be cheap. New settlers can be brought in, but that’s more expense and because there are no local resources they’ll also need to be supported at great cost by the original themes. Meanwhile the survivors of Generalplan Ost are in Persia, dreaming sweet dreams of vengeance and waiting for any signs of weakness and despising all thoughts of peace.

Two, keep the local populace in place and control them through garrisons. If Mesopotamia has 3-4 million people, to keep them in line by modern counterinsurgency standards that would require 30-40,000 Roman troops. And because they need to control the countryside, they need to be spread in small detachments, which means if any Persian field army comes sweeping out of the east, said Persian field army is going to gobble up these Roman troops like so many bite-sized snacks.

Which means another Roman field army needs to be here to protect the counterinsurgency forces. And because of the distance from the original themes and ensuing delay in reinforcements, the Roman field army needs to be big enough to stand up to the might of Persia for at least a couple of months. So that’s at least another 30-40,000 Roman soldiers, and frankly that’s cutting it dangerously small. Because while the Persians are invading, the COIN forces still need to be at it, so they can’t reinforce the field army.

Therefore the minimum to control and defend Mesopotamia requires 60-80,000 Roman soldiers. Now some of these could come from kastron troops, but the various Mesopotamian kastra need garrisons too in addition. Meanwhile the current Roman peacetime army roll is 135,000. So Mesopotamia, by itself, is using up half to two thirds of the entire Roman army.

Aside from the heavy expense of supporting the Mesopotamian defense, there will be opportunity costs Rhomania must pay. A possible pro-Roman German prince contending for the HRE crown can’t be supported because the reserves are in Mesopotamia. The Arletians can’t be supported against the Triunes because the reserves are in Mesopotamia. A major ground force can’t be sent against North Africa because the reserves are in Mesopotamia.

Rhomania’s contemporaries will also notice the commitment and how it ties down the Romans. Would-be allies won’t look to Rhomania because they’re too busy to be a source of aid while foes of Rhomania will be emboldened. The Hungarians will know the Romans won’t be able to protect them from a revived HRE if half to two-thirds of the Roman army is months away, so in the interests of their own safety they’ll flip to the Germans who have their whole army right next door. Serbia and Vlachia will be making the exact same calculations. And the Germans will be looking at Theodor’s old plan, which no longer look insane but visionary. And if the Romans march the Mesopotamian army back west to repair the collapse of its European frontier, then Persia swoops in and takes it while they’re away, in which case all the expense was for nothing.

The Romans could expand their peacetime military, but that costs money, lots of money. Armies are not cheap and not even Rhomania’s coffers are limitless. And the White Palace would really like to not be spending 80%+ of its annual budget on the armed forces. Rhomania can boost it up to 300,000 in wartime, but that’s a temporary wartime measure, not a sustainable permanent peacetime level.

As for the idea of Rhomania just having some forward citadels like Baghdad or in the Zagros as roadblocks, well there’s defense in depth and spreading oneself too thin. This is the latter. The forts need garrisons which need to be fed, which means the countryside needs to be controlled to keep them supplied. Queue all those troop commitments I mentioned earlier.

Also forward positions that are so far forward that they can’t be supported aren’t an asset; they’re a liability. A garrison there will know that if they’re attacked, there’s no chance they can be relieved in time. So their choices are:

A) Fight a battle to the death and die as a glorious speedbump.
B) Surrender. In which case do it early while the terms will be good.

Putting men and material in positions where they can’t hold if they are attacked means that said men and material have effectively been thrown away. Instead they could’ve been used to garrison positions that actually could’ve held until relieved. Except now those won’t hold either, because they’re undermanned or underequipped because all the stuff went to the too-far-forward posts. Plus there are all those nice fortifications that have been gifted to the Persians, which now the Romans would have to besiege if they wanted to take them back.

All of this above is predicated on an intact Persia. Rhomania could try to smash or neuter Persia, and it could get away with it at least once. But Roman ability to project power sustainably in Persia is even less than in Mesopotamia, because Persia is even further away. Once the Romans left, Persia would start to coalesce again. Which again leaves the Romans two options.

1) Let it. In which case in a generation or two Persia is back again, and who knows in what form. Could be better or could be worse. After all, consider what happened after Khusrau II. The Sassanids got smashed, and then the Romans got the Caliphate instead.

2) Periodically send expeditions in to re-smash or re-neuter Persia. Except that costs a lot, not only in direct expense but in opportunity costs. While Rhomania is busy doing that, it can’t do X or Y. Also in doing so, the Romans are really alienating the Persians. Which means at some point when (not if) Rhomania is too distracted by other affairs to keep this up, Persia will re-coalesce, and it will be in a really bad mood.

Now let’s look at trying to hold northern Mesopotamia only. It’s much smaller, lightly populated, and closer to Rhomania proper. Meaning, leaving aside the moral horrors, that’d be much easier and cheaper to remove/destroy the local population and replace them with loyalists. Which means that tons of troops don’t need to be tied down in COIN operations. And since it’s both further away from Persia and closer to Rhomania (so a double bonus), there doesn’t constantly need to be a giant field army about because the region can be reinforced rapidly. The three eastern themes can all get troops here comparable to or even faster than a Hamadan-based power.

Money will still need to be spent on kastra, but all that money that would be spent on the Baghdad kastron (and then lost because it’s too far forward to be supported) can instead go to the Mosul kastron. And that one is in a position to be supported because, again, it’s noticeably closer, so the garrison of that will be more inclined to fight out it because it doesn’t look like they’ve been sent to a suicide posting.

Rhomania still gets a buffer zone for Syria and Eastern Anatolia (which is the point of the whole exercise), but it’s a buffer zone it can reliably defend without breaking the bank or posing massive opportunity costs for Constantinople.
 
Roman (?) Mesopotamia Pt. 2
Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, so the goal of Roman Mesopotamia can remains a long term achievement to strive for by reducing it into a couple of smaller goals, a slow advancement down the rivers. Genghis spent 23 years fighting the Jin but even he couldn't achieve his desired conquest of China, with Kublai only managing to neuter the Song in 44 years. Never bite off more than you can chew is always a good rule to follow.
 
Just as Rome wasn't built in a day, so the goal of Roman Mesopotamia can remains a long term achievement to strive for by reducing it into a couple of smaller goals, a slow advancement down the rivers. Genghis spent 23 years fighting the Jin but even he couldn't achieve his desired conquest of China, with Kublai only managing to neuter the Song in 44 years. Never bite off more than you can chew is always a good rule to follow.
And Baghdad is likely more than Rhomania can chew. Conquering and retaining Mesopotamia as a long-term Roman goal is possible, but accomplishing it will take at least 50 years, if not a whole century or two.
The Roman situation is more difficult than the Mongols, because while most Chinese only lowkey disliked the Mongols, I can assure you that most Mesopotamians will have an intense dislike, if not outright hatred, which will simmer for decades. Rhomania can't afford an Egypt-esque debacle in Mesopotamia, since if that ever successfully happened, Mesopotamia would likely be permanently irrecoverable.
 
Well if we’re sticking with a Mosul based Roman Mesopotamia I would recommend that it’s southern border be set at least as south Tikrit. Not for land grabbing purposes or because the city is particularly wealthy. But from my understanding it is historically important to Syriac Christians though, and since any Roman Mesopotamia is gonna need as many friendly minorities as possible this would make them very happy.

I’d also suggest it claim as much of what is today Iraqi Kurdistan as it feel comforts taking since the Kurds have proven to be a relatively neutral minority for the Romans to deal with in the past. Possibly even try to push a little further North East to Mahabad and then north to Lake Urmia if they’re feeling lucky. If the Georgians March south and take Tabriz that is a relatively safe bit to take.
 
Here's a little something I made just now.

Map1.gif
Purple - current Roman frontier
Dark grey - current Georgian frontier
Brown - current Ottoman frontier

Light grey - my projected Georgian gains. Includes the entirety of the disputed trans-Aras region, plus a few small odds and ends, because why not.
Red - my projection of the Mosul line.
Orange - @Duke of Orlando's line, with Tikrit.
Blue - @Βοανηργές's Baghdad line.
Green - the rough extent of geographical Mesopotamia.
 
It never lost it.
Egyptian grain was and remains one of the most important sources of food for much of the Mediterranean, especially in the east. Farming tactics in Egypt are not likely to change anytime soon, frankly they don't need to. Egypt's success in agriculture is due to the annual flooding of the Nile that gives nutrients to the soil. Everywhere else in the world has to figure out how to do what nature has done in Egypt for millenia. That's where most agricultural innovation came IOTL, and is primarily related to nitrogen fixing into the soil. The only developments that really helped Egyptian agriculture IOTL around this point was mechanization and that's not due for another 200 years. Even the introduction of the Potato did not make waves in Egypt, since the Potato's tremendous value to nutrition was its superhuman ability (superplant? Supertuber? I like that one. It rhymes.) ability to grow pretty much anywhere on whatever sort of soil with little preparation. Egypt doesn't have such marginal land outside of traditional cultivation available to it. If the land isn't being cultivated for agriculture in Egypt then that's because it's desert.
Interestingly enough, today Egypt is the leading potato-cultivalting country in Africa and one of the top potato exporters globally. In OTL, potato was introduced in Egypt in the 1800's . Maybe it can be introduced earlier in TTL?
 
While I agree with not holding Mesopotamia I must note two things.

1. This is 1640. A state spending 80% of its budget on the military or military related items... is the way things are.
2. No matter what may happen a generation or two down the line crushing Persian now, thoroughly still looks like a good idea to me. Create and independent Iraq under Iskander or someone else really, let the Georgians and Russians annex whatever they can, Persia will still be hostile anyway. With some luck by the time Persian armies are charging across the Zagros, Turkish Iraq will have a separate identity from Persia proper or they will be fighting each other over who conquers whom.
 
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