So, the Romans will get swept before they finally get it together?
The Romans are going to suffer a lot which could’ve been avoided if they’d been better organized and focused.
Kalmeros/Napoleon is in the area for the Romans to save the day. I'd imagine he would have ambitions to become ruler of all the Roman East.
He’s still a bit junior for such ambitions. Kalomeros ITTL is, compared to OTL, in an extended ‘Toulon’ moment. This is where he does deeds that first get him really recognized, but he’s still a junior officer and not a power player. IOTL that didn’t come until the whiff of grapeshot and him becoming the commander of the army of Italy.
A defeat in detail is the logical conclusion of the leadership situation (or lack thereof) of Rhomania-In-The-East. Given the lack of top level leadership and 17th Century communication lag time it stands to reason that the Spaniards would do exactly what they are doing.
It was interesting looking how transportation and communication issues would hamper the Romans. The same monsoon winds that would carry Roman ships from Egypt to the east would be the same monsoon winds carrying the Spanish expedition. Also Malacca-Sunda, the two linchpins of Spanish power in the east, also form a central bloc in the middle of the various Despotates. A force sailing from Taprobane has to run by one of the two, unless it went all the way around Sumatra and Java, which adds a lot of travel time.
This strikes me as a great time to start bribing the Pirate of Madagascar for assistance. While Rhomania has other Allies in the East to ask for help, the pirates could hypothetically come up behind the Spanish using the same route they did. I doubt it happens but it would undoubtedly be epic and a good way for the Rhomans in India to assist without looking weak. Promising support to make one the Pirate King of Madagascar would also be an interesting payment and a good way to guard the Cape permanently.
Pirate fantasies aside, the Spanish have struck at the perfect moment of weakness. I wouldn’t be surprised to see New Constantinople get wiped out by a fleet this size, especially since their own fleet is currently parked outside of Semarang. The Mataram might win their siege but lose their patron.
The Madagascar pirates wouldn’t be playing a part. They base in Madagascar but range across much of the Indian Ocean (the OTL ones gave some embarrassing black eyes to Mughal shipping, often pilgrims performing the hajj), so they’re a problem for the Romans. Also as the coming updates will hopefully make clear, both sides really need two things. First, big heavily-gunned warships. Second, ground forces big enough to take and garrison forts. The pirates can’t provide either of those.
This post reminded me of one of the first time lines to really get me hooked, heh. Plenty of free time to reread it come to think of it...
One thing seems pretty clear: Rhomania in the East will likely be reformed after this, with some possibly heavy damage incurred early on. I wonder if we'll see Omani or Ethiopian aid against the Spanish...
The issues of the Roman structure in the East are another case of me creating an ad-hoc system, then looking at the complete final result and seeing some glaring problems. Another is when I realized that I’d created a system with 171 Kephales reported to the Megas Logothete with no mid-level supervisors. Rather than fix the issue and pretend it’d been there all along, I feel it’s better to explore the ramifications of said problems. After all, administrative structures often grow organically and haphazardly.
I think I know the exact timeline you’re talking about. Pirate Madagascar was also one of the first timelines I fell in love with on this site back when I was still just a lurker. I don’t even know what my first interaction with alternative history was. Either something by Turtledove or the CSA movie I think.
As far as assistance from Allies goes, I think Rhomania’s newest ally in the East will be what saves them. Which ally is this you ask? Well it’s Vijayanagara of course. Because despite what the brothers Laskaris think about wanting to look strong, when the Rhomans are at their weakest is when Vijayanagara is in the best bargaining position for any prospective Alliance.
Or it’s Madagascar Pirate lords. I’m gonna believe in that dream until the very end!
Keep a pin in that thought.
I'm loving this, I'm genuinely super nervous about what's going to happen. Here's hoping reinforcements will arrive soon....
You didn’t specify whose reinforcements. You should be more careful with details like that…
I'm sure the Lothairingians and Trinues each won't want the Spanish getting stronger in the east and could help the Rhomans.
Could.
They're just as likely to see blood in the water and go for opportunism instead. Politics can be weird like that.
Lotharingians and Triunes are too busy dealing with each other.
Definitely seems like the Spanish will land some heavy blows in the opening phase of the war. They’ll probably broadcast any victory loud and far to boost prestige among the natives. While it’ll probably overawe some natives into submission, agree it’ll bring in other players on the Roman side. Hopefully allied help will coincide nicely with Napoleon returning from the Korean War, with some samurai by his side.
The ability to recruit native allies is going to be absolutely, crucially, key in the coming fight. The OOC reason for all these events is to show the native kingdoms exercising their agency and taking advantage of the situation for their own interests.
I wonder if the Lothringian ships in the east will turn to piracy once the mainland is fully subjugated by the Triunes. Perhaps they could join with the pirate lords of Madagascar
There’s an interesting idea. Assuming the Lothringian upper class hate the Triunes enough they could probably set up Lothringia in exile on Madagascar with the help of their forces already in the Pacific. I doubt it survives more than a generation or two before it becomes unidentifiable from any other Pirate haven or native kingdom on the island, but it could be interesting.
I should probably stop dreaming up ideas about Madagascar. I’m sure B444 already has something interesting planned out for it.
Depends on the Lotharingians, and how the Triunes would treat them. The merchants after all want to make money. If the Triunes will let them keep doing so, they’ll fall into line, much like the burghers of Cologne who defected to the Triunes in return for guarantees of their economic privileges. If the Triunes try to suck away all the trade profits for French/English merchants, that’s when we have problems.
If you want to set up Pirate Kingdom Madagascar it could be a fun place for the Knights of St. John.
The Hospitaliers briefly had a Caribbean colony. Would love to do something with that ITTL, but it is niche and off the beaten track from a Roman perspective.
You still haven't threadmarked the latest chapter by the way.
Also how christianized is south East Asia at this point? If I remember right the Orthodox church had an easier time spreading than the Catholics but how much has each church spread?
Thanks. I fixed that.
For Catholics, there’s a respectable number in Spanish Malaya and some in Sunda (west Java), although the Sundanese community includes many high-rank Sundanese which gives it more clout than it would just from numbers.
For Orthodox, there are large communities in Roman Malaya, the Roman Moluccas, and central Luzon, with smaller numbers in the rest of the northern Herakleians (Philippines). Orthodoxy spreads more easily than Catholicism because Southeast Asians find the ‘celibate priest’ routine really weird; this is from OTL.
Outside of the listed areas, native Christians are very few and far between.
So is Austria its own sperate kingdom in the holy Roman Empire that is in a personal union with hungary or is it part of Hungary proper
It is a part of the Holy Roman Empire but is a kingdom in personal union under Hungary.
Quick question: do non-Japanese East Asians still view Rome as being, well, Rome? Like the successors of the old empire? So would the Zeng call the Imperials “Fulin” believing them to be pre-Islamic Byzantium, or some version of “Dayuan” seeing them as Greeks with a bit too much interest in Asia?
Prior to this, I’d imagine the Koreans would then be calling the Romans “Bulim” or “Taewon”. So would the Roman expeditionary force in Korea be referred to as made up of “Bulimbyeong” (literally Roman soldiers, but more accurately used if in reference to ones drawn from the Syriac or Cilician Themes) or “Taewonbyeong” (Literally Ionian soldiers)?
They do, but ‘Rome’ doesn’t have any special resonance or meaning to Southeast Asians. The Vijayanagara do use the old Sanskrit term ‘Yavana’ to refer to Romans, because they speak Greek.
The next part of
Not the End: The Empire under the Laskarids has been posted on Patreon. In it, Theodoros II begins the long process of the Laskarid re-conquest of Anatolia, not intentionally, but as a means of getting his hands on the traitor Michael Palaiologos.
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