Wait what? The Scots have to know the second they declare independence a 100,000 man Triune army marches up from England looking to take them over. The only reason Scotland isn't a member of the Triple Monarcy is because they are members of the EAN. Giving up that protection means there's nothing stopping the Triunes from taking them over.
An Age of Miracles Continues: The Empire of Rhomania
- Thread starter Basileus444
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Wait what? The Scots have to know the second they declare independence a 100,000 man Triune army marches up from England looking to take them over. The only reason Scotland isn't a member of the Triple Monarcy is because they are members of the EAN. Giving up that protection means there's nothing stopping the Triunes from taking them over.
Evilprodigy
Donor
Too cushy for too long, people have become ungrateful and illogically prioritize something against their interests. It happens all the time, and I don't think Scotland would see sense until they face a Triune invasion and are saved by the EAN. Right now, as allies, Scotland's just a friend and wouldn't really see the Triunes as an enemy.
I understand history (OTL and TTL) is full of people doing stupid stuff in the short term that screws them over long term. It just strikes me as extra stupid in this case. Your logic is sound though.
Did Vlad Dracula or any ITTL counterpart of him exist? Really curious about this
If I can recall what I read from the first thread of AoM, he served as regent for Andreas and married his daughter to him in return for his support against Andreas' sister. Man talking bout Vlad and Niketas sure brought back nostalgic memories when they were the main focus. I guess this is how the Rhomans must feel ITTL about the years when Andreas I ruled.
That’s a good analogy. England under the Triunes is bigger than Scotland in the UK and London itself has a lot of clout because of its size as one of the biggest cities in Europe, but the concept is the same.
I wouldn’t say ‘neat’. After all, Galicia just got rolled into the Vlach Kingdom and it’s not populated by Vlach-speakers. But I’m planning on much more stable frontiers going forward compared to OTL. (Just look at Poland’s border throughout history; the country literally moves.)
I’m not sure about population since I don’t have OTL figures to use. Size-wise I’d say around a third (I’m eyeballing the 1634 map). It’s a big chunk of territory certainly, although most of that is from Casimir’s conquest spree so it’s only been Polish for 20 years at most.
I’ve never been to Poland but would like to change that. When I was younger, I used to think my family was descended from Polish immigrants. (Actually Slovak.)
It certainly could’ve been much worse. Core Poland is untouched; avoiding a TTL Deluge is a victory all by itself.
That point is going to be coming up shortly.
Poland is still an important player even after this. It’s not on the level of the big players, but it’s a solid second-tier power.
The Cuyavian line is in charge. They united Poland the same as OTL and have ruled as the monarchs ever since.
What we have here, is the real reason why that proviso was included in the treaty…
I’ve been picturing Galicia as comparable to the medieval Principality of Halych.
The problem with pushing to unite the West Slavs is that attacking Silesia is attacking part of the Kingdom of Bohemia. Attacking Presporok (Slovakia) means an attack on its Hungarian overlord, which risks invoking the Belgrade Pact as has been mentioned.
Demetrios III (mostly) prefers the soft touch.
Odysseus does not take after him in that regard.
I have some ideas for the Spanish…
We’re going to be see a lot of soft-power jockeying between the Triunes and Romans in the future. Spain and the Accord is definitely going to be a wild card here.
That is the serious risk. On the other hand, Brandenburg is a Wittelsbach possession and they’re rather busy right now.
That was the intention.
I’ll be going into more detail in a later update, but it’s mainly due to a growing Scottish disillusionment and alienation with the EAN. Malmo is very far away and concerned with other things. The Scots don’t care about who controls Pomerania but they do care about paying taxes to fund an army to attack it.
Scotland has been in personal union with Norway for about 200 years, and part of the EAN for about a century.
There was a Vlad Dracula during the reign of Theodoros IV and the early years of Andreas I, although he was personally nothing like the OTL figure. It was fun looking back and seeing how people’s opinion of him changed as he went from the Son of the Dragon and a skilled general in his own right to Andreas’ Regent who forced him to marry his daughter in exchange for his political/military support.
Fun times. I love the idea of revisiting and redoing that period, not changing anything but making it more detailed. That’s the part of the TL that lends itself the best into becoming a book in my opinion.
Oh, @Basileus444, have you ever read the story I am Skantarios? Its a great AAR story about the Laskarid's, mainly Skantarios around the 1440s pulling themselves back from the brink, Skantarios is basically a commander who's on the level of Alexander the Great, he goes around conquering and defeating the Turks, which eventually morphs into a Jihad against Constantinople, its all pretty awesome, but fair warning, if you're a particularly religious Muslim, this story is not gonna be easy to read since Skantarios has a burning hatred for Muslims and basically goes Genghis Khan on them.
Do the Triunes have an equivalent title to the OTL Prince of Wales for the crown prince?
They are, due to Andreas I's second wife (former wife of the Hungarian king) lying about the father of her first child (conceived with Andreas before she was shipped off to Hungary) the Arpads went extinct in the male line. I believe the Hunyadi are descended from a female Arpad TTL.
Oh, @Basileus444, if I can ask, how is Vietnam doing? Have they managed to fend of any attempts to colonize them?
Evilprodigy
Donor
You know this is long before any European power had significant influence in Southeast Asia, let alone actual territory, right? The French didn't conquor Vietnam until the mid 19th century. European territorial ambitions were limited to cities in the Malayan Peninsula until the British entered Burma in the early 19th century.
More of colonization in general, Vietnam has in the past had rather brutal confrontations with Chinese expansionism, details are kinda sparse on the going on of anything east of the Ottomans, so this is just me wondering what's going on in a rather unexplored part of this universe.
Evilprodigy
Donor
I mean tbf that is sorta what Vietnam did IOTL. The trifecta of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Thailand sorta just competed amongst themselves in a region of the world more or less geopolitically isolated from the rest save foe very sporadic attacks from China that never established anything long term. Details change of course but fundamentally unless someone removed the mountains and jungles in SE Asia it's not really going to change until industrialization overcomes those barriers.
On the coming “great game” between the Triunes and Rome. I gotta think Rome will have a pretty decisive advantage in that all they really want in Europe is to be left alone while the Triunes have a tendency to wanting more direct control over areas.
The Triunes could have used their population and Economy to completely bind Arles, Bernese League and Lotharingia to them in the same way Rome has done to Scythia, Egypt, and Serbia let alone the other despotates. Instead they have now invaded Lotharingia 3? times and have never renounced their ambition regarding Arles. It means that they will have to spend time on their frontiers in a way that Rome won’t have to do.
Hell at this point Roman influence in Europe is the highest it’s been since Justinian. OTL Southern and Central Italy, the entire Balkans, Hungary, Austria, Georgia, the Caucasus And Ukraine are all going to be deep in Rome’s pocket. Northern Italy , Western Russia and Poland are also under varying levels of influence; they are far more independent and will likely drift away but for the moment Rome exerts considerable cultural, economic, and/or military influence on them. It’s a level of soft power that the Ottomans or any OTL power between Charlemagne and Napoleon ever reached even at their height. And the way the Romans have set it up it’s should be far more enduring than any of those.
Rome’s biggest advantage though will be how they are able to make it economically enticing. Rome has long experience with creating a single tariff zone and will gladly extend it to other states as they realize that it makes everyone richer which means more taxes. The Triunes in contrast have not even created a single market within their own domains yet.
The Triunes could have used their population and Economy to completely bind Arles, Bernese League and Lotharingia to them in the same way Rome has done to Scythia, Egypt, and Serbia let alone the other despotates. Instead they have now invaded Lotharingia 3? times and have never renounced their ambition regarding Arles. It means that they will have to spend time on their frontiers in a way that Rome won’t have to do.
Hell at this point Roman influence in Europe is the highest it’s been since Justinian. OTL Southern and Central Italy, the entire Balkans, Hungary, Austria, Georgia, the Caucasus And Ukraine are all going to be deep in Rome’s pocket. Northern Italy , Western Russia and Poland are also under varying levels of influence; they are far more independent and will likely drift away but for the moment Rome exerts considerable cultural, economic, and/or military influence on them. It’s a level of soft power that the Ottomans or any OTL power between Charlemagne and Napoleon ever reached even at their height. And the way the Romans have set it up it’s should be far more enduring than any of those.
Rome’s biggest advantage though will be how they are able to make it economically enticing. Rome has long experience with creating a single tariff zone and will gladly extend it to other states as they realize that it makes everyone richer which means more taxes. The Triunes in contrast have not even created a single market within their own domains yet.
On the coming War of Wrath and Great Crime. At this point it’s looking like it will be a near complete crushing of the Ottomans. Rome by itself could easily win the war and they are going to be joined by contingents from Serbia, Vlachia, Georgia, Pronsk, Lithuania, Khazaria, Novgorod, Hungary, and now Poland. The Ottomans will have to defend their entire northern and western frontier even while the Romans are ramming 100k+ men down into Mesopotamia. It’s going to be a very one sided affair but it also shows easily how the alliance could over extend themselves and set up the “Final War”.
On the Great Crime; given what we know (the war is coming, Rome is going to win decisively) and what we can infer (Rome will be brutal, the Great Crime will be WORSE than already ongoing ethnic cleansing in Levantine and Egyptian lands) I think the great crime is going to be not just the sack of Baghdad but the dismantling of it. The front line will rapidly move hundreds of KMs away from Baghdad and it will allow the Roman army/government to deport the entire population into slavery, dismantle entirely the irrigation networks, and destroy every structure in the city. The Ottomans will get back the land in the peace treaty and come upon a desert where one of their greatest cities once stood. It will stand as a stark reminder of Rome’s lowest point morally and an enduring “warning” of what happens when Rome is pushed too far.
On the Great Crime; given what we know (the war is coming, Rome is going to win decisively) and what we can infer (Rome will be brutal, the Great Crime will be WORSE than already ongoing ethnic cleansing in Levantine and Egyptian lands) I think the great crime is going to be not just the sack of Baghdad but the dismantling of it. The front line will rapidly move hundreds of KMs away from Baghdad and it will allow the Roman army/government to deport the entire population into slavery, dismantle entirely the irrigation networks, and destroy every structure in the city. The Ottomans will get back the land in the peace treaty and come upon a desert where one of their greatest cities once stood. It will stand as a stark reminder of Rome’s lowest point morally and an enduring “warning” of what happens when Rome is pushed too far.
Ironic that once the War of Wrath occurs, it will be Oddy taking the helm, a descendant of Timur and Shah Ruhk mind you. It seems the Ottomans, in one form or another are always going to be haunted by Timur's ghost. This time it's dressed in purple and gold instead of black and red.
I think I recall Basileus having read that AAR back in the first thread? (Could be in this thread though) as I vaguely remember reading a Laskaris commander storming the Kaaba, or was it the mad Laskaris prince that remained there shortly after, I can't recall but I think it was a neat reference to that AAR. That said I highly recommend reading it. A very fun ride from start to finish (Added with typical Roman civil war shenanigans in the sequel).
I think I recall Basileus having read that AAR back in the first thread? (Could be in this thread though) as I vaguely remember reading a Laskaris commander storming the Kaaba, or was it the mad Laskaris prince that remained there shortly after, I can't recall but I think it was a neat reference to that AAR. That said I highly recommend reading it. A very fun ride from start to finish (Added with typical Roman civil war shenanigans in the sequel).
One thing I'm wondering is, how does Rhomania avoid falling behind their western rivals? IOTL, it happened to the Ottomans, I'm wondering how Rhomania avoids it, though the Ottomans' stagnation had a lot of factors, and even by the late 17th century, during the Great Turkish War, they were still a formidable force and put up a great fight considering they were fighting a war a multi front war with them getting assailed o almost every angle.