Holding Out for a Hero: Gustav Stresemann Survives

[LordInsane]

Originally Posted by Alikchi

Ooh, things are really swinging now. How is Stresemann's health, I wonder?

That bit about 'the map of Europe' at the end there is interesting. Danzig?

His health is good enough that he's not until '1959, maybe 1960', good enough, hopefully.
I suppose so.
Hm, that reminds me: the Saar rejoined as OTL, right? That would strengthen Stresemann and the Republic's position, I guess...

[LordInsane]

Originally Posted by maverick

Look out, Poland and Czechoslovakia!

Nah, I've got a feeling Stresemann won't go after Czechoslovakia unless they deliberately begin oppressing their Germans. Oh, he might call for some reforms in Czechoslovakia, but he won't actually go for Sudeten (for one thing, it wasn't a part of the pre-Great War Empire, and Germany haven't even got Austria...), I'd say. Heck, if even going for more then Danzig/the Corridor is something that Stresemann is something Stresemann is uncertain of...

[Susano]

Eh, the eastern border is a cause celebre, unlike Czechoslovakia. So he will indeed probably do nothing major about the latter, but he might have... some spats with Poland.

[lichtbringer]

Mhm, after WW I there was a strong allgerman-Movement in Austria. Of course there was the "Anschlussverbot" by the winners of WW I. Perhaps something will happen in that direction.

[LordInsane]

Originally Posted by lichtbringer

Mhm, after WW I there was a strong allgerman-Movement in Austria. Of course there was the "Anschlussverbot" by the winners of WW I. Perhaps something will happen in that direction.

Possibly. The Austrians (but maybe not their government) would be positive...

Hm, I just noticed a little thing. Transistors in the late 30s, eh?

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by LordInsane

Hm, that reminds me: the Saar rejoined as OTL, right? That would strengthen Stresemann and the Republic's position, I guess...

The Saar did join, yes.

Look out, Poland and Czechoslovakia!

Hey, no mention to the Olympics? or events in Spain? how about Italy and Austria?

All these will be covered shortly, yes.

Starting with the last one.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by LordInsane

Hm, I just noticed a little thing. Transistors in the late 30s, eh?

Yea, I tend to think Nazi Germany lived off of Weimar and Imperial Germany's intellectual capital; under Stresemann the situation for intellectuals is much, much better, so things heat up.

[LordInsane]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

Yea, I tend to think Nazi Germany lived off of Weimar and Imperial Germany's intellectual capital; under Stresemann the situation for intellectuals is much, much better, so things heat up.

That seems quite likely, yes. One wonders what other things could come out of Germany's universities (more then transistors and more common television)...

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by lichtbringer

Mhm, after WW I there was a strong allgerman-Movement in Austria. Of course there was the "Anschlussverbot" by the winners of WW I. Perhaps something will happen in that direction.

In a way, I suppose...

I do have a question for the readers. Did anybody seriously want the Hohenzollerns to return to Germany, aside from a few Generals?

[LordInsane]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

I do have a question for the readers. Did anybody seriously want the Hohenzollerns to return to Germany, aside from a few Generals?

I'm not entirely certain, but I think that, at least, some of the industrialists would think it to be a good idea. Parts of the middle class might, too, as would a fair portion of the Junkers that doesn't fit in either three of those categories (Generals, industrialists and middle classish). Altough we aren't talking enthustiastically wanting it, just thinking that it would be nice. And practically no-one would want Willie back on the throne.
I'd say that just thinking that it'd be nice would be not extremely rare, and not being opposed to it wouldn't be so rare, either. But since things are going well for the Republic now, I somehow doubt that a Restoration is plausible. Germany would need a crisis.

[Hendryk]

Just finished catching up with your TL, and I like the way you've portrayed Stresemann.

Will Coudenhove-Kalergi pipe in at some point?

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Hendryk

Just finished catching up with your TL, and I like the way you've portrayed Stresemann.

Hopefully there'll be more cooperation with Briand down the line, perhaps with input by Coudenhove-Kalergi...

Briand, alas, is probably going to die soon.

But there's always Laval, with his rabid "European" anti-Communism and thoughts on a United Europe to oppose the Anglo-Saxons...

That will end well, won't it?

And yes, Coudenhove will make an appearance, although how is yet unclear.

[Hendryk]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

Briand, alas, is probably going to die soon.

Remembered that a minute too late.

Originally Posted by Faeelin

But there's always Laval, with his rabid "European" anti-Communism and thoughts on a United Europe to oppose the Anglo-Saxons...

That will end well, won't it?

First Wang Jingwei, now Laval... you've got a thing for Quislings, don't you?

[Faeelin]

The Dunce and the Fürher: The Birth of National Socialist Austria

One of the ironies of Europe was that by 1936, Hitler, in his role as a German revolutionary, had become an Italian satellite. This is particularly surprising because it was something neither group wanted.

Ties between the Nazis and Italian Fascists went back into the Early 1920s, and contact between the two groups had existed even before the March on Rome. Yet even at this early date there had been many differences between the two groups; Italian fascists thought Nazi anti-semitism was in bad taste, and that they would demand South Tyrol back Meanwhile, the German far right thought the Italians were an inferior, feckless race; hardly likely to win friends in Rome. Hitler alone was in favor of ties with Italy, yet it was assumed that as an Austrian Hitler would push for Anschluss.

Thus, although Mussolini maintained contacts with the Nazi Party, he had mixed feelings at best, and watched with some satisfaction as the “March on Berlin” was crushed and Stresemann reasserted power. Yet Stresemann’s successes meant that he was soon considering something Italy could not allow: a union with Austria. Many in Austria, including the Christian Social Democrat Chancellor Engelbert Dollfuss, favored Anschluss [1], and a Germany on the Alps was not in Italy’s best interest. Something had to be done, and the answer was clear. Mussolini’s Italy had a tradition of supporting political terrorism, patronizing the Croat Utasha movement, supplying weapons to Spanish plotters, and supporting the overthrow of the Austrian government.

Austria was among the few countries that suffered worse than Germany in the Depression, and unlike Germany, there was no one to lead its recovery. The political and economic situation continued to worsen, and with violence erupting in the streets of Vienna. The right wing Heimwehr, Nazis , and Socialist Schutzbund battled in the streets, and it was clear the end could only come when one side was victorious.

Yet the Nazis had several advantages over their allies. They had the support of the Italians, in the form of money and guns; and they received an influx of Nazi sympathizers in 1933 and 1934. Although they were few in number compared to the masses that had once supported the Party, they were often the diehards, who would fight fanatically for the Nazi cause. While Stresemann offered support to Dolllfuss, the Austrian government prevaricated until it was too late.
The Nazi Putsch took place in February of 1934. Assassinating Chancellor Dollfuss, Nazis quickly seized the Austrian government. Although there was some resistance, within three days the country was in the hands of the National Socialists; and darkness descended across the Danube.

The Legacy of Revolution

“Give me ten years and you won’t recognize Vienna”- Adolf Hitler

The Nazis that gained power in Vienna were far more radical than they had appeared in the Reichstag, and this was no surprise. Hitler’s failure to win the presidency from Stresemann convinced him that the Nazis, as a revolutionary movement, had to act like one. The disaster in Germany showed that only extreme actions defeat the entrenched forces that opposed the “National Socialist Revolution”. The Nazi government soon disturbed even Mussolini, breaking up estates, arresting “exploiters and profiteers” from the Great War, and pushing for worker control of Austria’s industries. Nazi Austria became a home for neopagans, eugenic experts, and others from the far right. The hills of Austria witnessed massacres and sacrifices to Woden; sometimes, sadly, one right after the other.

Yet such policies had little, if any in reviving Austria’s economy, and the economy continued to stagnate in the early 1930s. And while some from the far right moved to Austria, many more Austrians fled to Germany, bringing stories of Nazi atrocities. By 1935 it was felt by many that the German people had dodged a bullet, and Goering, in an fit of irony, abandoned attempts to form a new Nazi Party to join the DNVP.

For Stresemann, Austria became a festering sore that had to be cleansed, and the major goal of his foreign policy was to liberate the Ostmark.

[1] As Dollfuss did before the Nazis came to power; something about Hitler turned him off it.

[Nicomacheus]

Awesome: Anschluss will become synomous with the advance of democracy and the destruction of tryanny.

So, will TTL have a Second World War? Say against the Soviets? In any case, the ramifications of successful Wiemar are very interesting.

Best of luck.

[arctic warrior]

What an interesting turn for Hitler!
A dark, Wodantreu Naziparty. How Himmler would have loved it!

But if Stresemann get to cleanse Austria/Ostmark by Anschluss what will happen to Mussolinis Italy? Won't they be queing up then??

[stevep]

Another couple of points come to mind.
a) What's going to happen in Spain if it follows the path to civil war. If Russia supports the republic, depending on how you define support of course, then you might see the right split between more extremists and more moderate elements who gain support from the western powers. Or a weakened republic eventually winning through.

b) If Italy is the only 'rogue' in Europe, at least west of the SU, and possibly pre-occupied by what's going on in Austria, will there still be some attempt on Ethiopia, [I expect] or more importantly do the democratic powers, less distracted by a Nazi Germany, show enough guts to force them to back down?

Steve

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Nicomacheus

Awesome: Anschluss will become synonomous with the advance of democracy and the destruction of tyranny.

I really, really, need to figure out what the French are up to. The British, of course, are cheering Stresemann on; but the French might be a bit concerned.

But "We will not let you liberate your brethren from a fascist nightmare because one day you might remilitarize the Rhineland" is not a strong argument.

So, will TTL have a Second World War? Say against the Soviets? In any case, the ramifications of successful Wiemar are very interesting.

There might be one; there will certainly be regional wars; one in Asia, for instance, and maybe one in Europe.

And I should note that Stresemann may be a fan of Von Bulow's idea of using German economic hegemony over Eastern Europe to build political hegemony. Political hegemony meaning, in this case, taking back western Poland.

What an interesting turn for Hitler!
A dark, Wodantreu Naziparty. How Himmler would have loved it!

It's not quite Himmler's paradise; no slavs to kill in Austria, for instance, and right now they're just persecuting/expelling the Jews. And others. (Man, does that get an awful lot of play on the German Broadcasting Corporation.)

Hitler's long term goal is Austria as the new Prussia; the nucleus for the revitalization of the German people. But, well.

But if Stresemann get to cleanse Austria/Ostmark by Anschluss what will happen to Mussolinis Italy? Won't they be queing up the

The solution to both of them is, shall we say, intertwined.

[Faeelin]

[QUOTE=stevep;1829301]Another couple of points come to mind.
a) What's going to happen in Spain if it follows the path to civil war. If Russia supports the republic, depending on how you define support of course, then you might see the right split between more extremists and more moderate elements who gain support from the western powers. Or a weakened republic eventually winning through.

b) If Italy is the only 'rogue' in Europe, at least west of the SU, and possibly pre-occupied by what's going on in Austria, will there still be some attempt on Ethiopia, [I expect] or more importantly do the democratic powers, less distracted by a Nazi Germany, show enough guts to force them to back down?

Steve

Austria isn't too different from OTL at this stage, from a pure power politics; an Italian ally against an aggressive Germany, with maybe Hungary alongside.

But yes, Ethiopia will be an issue; but without the threat of the Nazis in Germany, the British (if not the French) may be a bit more assertive.

Which will lead to great things for Italy.

Hrmm. I don't think it'd get to a war, but that'd be interesting. Britain is less armed than OTL 1936, and Italy's military is somewhat more up to date. But they'd be going off half cocked, as it were.

[Neroon]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

I really, really, need to figure out what the French are up to. The British, of course, are cheering Stresemann on; but the French might be a bit concerned.

A precedent of a Democracy conquering and annexing a Dictatorship to put an end to tyranny there, will also have interesting long-term repercussions if something like the WoT should happen in TTLs 21st century.