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  #101  
Old June 28th, 2008, 01:41 PM
stevep stevep is offline
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Faeelin

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FWIW, Hoover speculated about a debt/reparations reduction in the early 1920s, but he would have wanted it tied to further disarmament. And there was support for it in some circles. No idea how plausible it is, but certainly the idea was mooted.
I read a while back that Britain proposed a cancelling of WWI intra-allied debts similar to that they did after the Napoleonic Wars. Partly this was because of the impact on the world economy and to cancel debts would revive world trade. Partly also possibly while Britain had the largest loans the bulk of those were to Russia which, with the seizure of power by the Bolsheviks looked highly unlikely to ever be repaid. However, think this was shortly after the end of the War and the US refused at the time.

Pity some agreement hadn't been worked out either then or in the early 20's as think it might have done a lot to revive world trade and possibly avoid, if not the depression then the worst effects and some of the dictators.


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If it makes you feel better, there was plenty of such stuff to go around; such as the French proposal to internationalize civilian aircraft, or the claim that submarines were a defensive weapon....

The entire conference seemed vaguely silly to me, so sorry if it seems like I'm picking on Britain.
Thanks. It was sounding rather like Britain was getting singled out and I was starting to feel rather ratty about it.

I think there was a lot of genuine concern to avoid war, coupled with the desire to cut spending given the depression and conventional economic thought at the time. However always been doubtful about most disarmament talks because generally the people willing to take steps weaken themselves compared to those who are less principled.

Also it is genuinely highly difficult with such matters because most weapons can be used either defensively or offensively. Even submarines were thought of initially as defensive weapons because of the limitations of the early versions and the view that they would only be used against military targets. However as we all know they changed character totally once they gained the capacity and will to be used against civilian targets. Similarly at sea mines can be a defensive measure to keep an enemy away from your coastline or an aggressive one to strangle their own shipping.

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  #102  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 08:44 PM
Faeelin Faeelin is offline
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When Stresemann gained power, his most difficult problem was averting the real possibility of a Nazi-military putsch. Many in the Reichswehr either had Nazi sympathies, or had an intense dislike of the German Left. Having Stresemann as President was, therefore, obviously something they opposed.

As soon as Stresemann took office, he began his efforts to combat the Nazis and Communists; and in doing so, avert the Civil War he feared. On apper, the Nazi position was strong. Three quarters of a million brownshirts and Steel Helmets stood on the right, and no one knew how the army would act. Yet democracy was not defenseless, and had its own paramilitary force: The Iron Front.

The Iron Front

The Reichsbanner was formed in 1924 in a response to the right wing unrest of the 1920s as part of a campaign to defend the Republic. From its inception it had been supported by the SPD and, to a lesser extent, the DDP and Center Party, but in the second half of the 1920s the movement had withered as the Republic seemed stable, and fallen under the control of the Social Democrats. Faced with the threat posed by Hitler and the Communists, Stresemann led the DDVP, sometimes kicking and screaming, into support for the movement and revitalizing a pan-democratic paramilitary force. An unlikely association of supporters, ranging from Gustav Krupp to dockworkers in Hamburg, the disparate movement was united only by one ideal: Respect for the Republic and its institutions. [1] By the spring of 1932 the movement, known as the Iron Front, had almost half a million members.

Yet the Iron Front was not merely a wholesome movement dedicated to democracy. The Iron Front attempted to adopt the tactics of their enemies. For the Presidential election, the Social Democrats ordered all local groups to wear a party badge, use a clenched –first greeting, and shout “Freedom!” at appropriate moments. Iron Front’s use of a three arrow symbol (symbolizing an attack on the foes of Democracy) also illustrated yet another adoption of Nazi methods, as did its efforts to rally people around “their” leader, Stresemann. Compared to their foes on the left and the right, the Iron Front was still the guardian of democracy in Germany.

Nevertheless, no one wanted a civil war, and while the army might lend Stresemann its support, they would only do so if all alternatives were exhausted first, including a deal with the Nazis.

Berlin, July 1932

“Look, Herr President, the fact remains that the Nazis are among the largest parties in the Reichstag. You can’t keep them out of the government forever.” Von Schleicher leaned back in his chair and waited for Stresemann to speak.

“Is that your advice, or the advice of the Reichswehr?”

”We’re just concerned about the undemocratic nature of your regime.” Stresemann noticed that Von Schleicher managed to keep a straight face as he said that. “More to the point, we’re concerned that you’re pushing the Nazis into launching a putsch, and we don’t want to have to fight other Germans.”

Stresemann stared across the table, and thought for a moment. “You’re right.” He scribbled something on a notepad, to make it appear as if he was thinking. “I won’t offer Hitler a position. But we could make Strasser Minister of Transportation.”

Schleicher shrugged. “That’s all?”

“The Social Democrats still have a majority.” Stresemann thought for a moment. “Let’s offer Goering a position. Hitler would approve of that, wouldn’t he?”

The Rise of the National German Workers' Party

The National Socialist movement was on the verge of disarray in the second half of 1932. They had been decisively defeated in the Presidential election, although they gained seats in the Reichstag election of May. Yet new elections in October indicated that the Nazi Party had peaked, with the party only gaining 28% of the nation’s votes. As the economy improved, the situation would only worsen for the party. The Party was also riven by factional strife, as the Strasser brothers urged for the Nazis to join Stresemann’s “National Government”. Ernst Rohm, meanwhile, urged the use of the party’s hundreds of thousands of SA to seize the state by force. Thus Strasser and Röhm became allies n support of a national revolution.

The end of 1932 thus witnessed two strains in the party; those urging a “national revolution, as exemplified by a joint Nazi-Communist strike in Berlin in opposition to Stresemann, and Hitler and Goering’s “conservative” faction. In this unstable situation, there was only one outcome.

Berlin, November 1932

Stresemann puffed a cigar and smiled as he read the paper. “So, Strasser and Rohm are forming the National Socialist German People’s Party, are they?” He quoted from the paper. “The rise of National Socialism is the protest of a people against a State that denies the right to work. If the machinery for distribution in the present economic system of the world is incapable of properly distributing the productive wealth of nations, then that system is false and must be altered. The important part of the present development is the anti-capitalist sentiment that is permeating our people.”

He chewed on the cigar looked out the window of the Reich Presidential Palace onto the courtyard. Rain fell against the windows, and the leaves had mostly fallen from the trees. No matter, really. Spring was just around the corner.

An Abortive Coup


While Strasser and Rohm continued to pledge their loyalty to the ideals of the Nazis, their break led to widespread Fighting between the National Socialist German Workers’ Party and the National German Workers’ Party erupted across Germany. Stresemann retaliated by instituting the death penalty for any “political executions”, while the Communists gleefully predicted the collapse of the “Bourgeois Republic. Nevertheless, both the National German Socialist German Workers' Party and the National German Workers' Party were hit badly in the 1933 election, as middle class voters defected, afraid that both parties were reverting to their socialist roots. If they were to gain power, many believed it would be no or never.

Berlin, December 1932

Stresemann sighed as he finished a letter. “Herr Doctor Nebel,” he wrote, “I am, like you, concerned about the possible militarization of rocketry. The world does not need more ways to blow itself up!”

He paused and then continued. “Bon Bülow.once wrote that Germany wanted its place in the sun, but you would give us the stars themselves.” In case Nebel wasn’t persuaded, He added, “Nevertheless, if you do wish to work with the government, I am sure others would who are less pacifistically inclined. That being so, would it not be better if you led the research?”

Stresemann put the pen down, and shrugged. While he doubted that Nebel’s men would ever build rockets that reached the moon, it captivated the mind of many Germans, and he’d rather they think about that than war. In any case, the ability to lob tons of explosives at Warsaw using some means other than bombers could be useful. Putting his pen down, he yawned and picked up the phone. And then all hell broke loose.

Stresemann heard a series of sharp barks outside, which picked up and then died down quickly. Irritated, he picked up the phone. “What’s going on out there?”

“Herr President,” said the voice on the other end, “it would seem that the Brownshirts have launched a coup.”

Stresemann responded with an interesting string of curses, and said, “I didn’t think they’d have the brains for it. Alright, have you called the Reichswehr?”

”Ja, but their head office has been attacked too. Reinforcements are coming from outside the city, but.”

Stresemann sighed. “Okay, get ahold of the police and Reichsbanner.”

He hung up as an officer ran in. “Herr President, you must flee out a side entrance. There may still be time for you to escape.”

Stresemann stood in the hallway, and looked at the walls. The paintings were tacky, depicting Germany’s leaders in the romantic style he’d always found dull. Yet he still felt the eyes of Bismarck and Frederick the Great staring at him, and the weight of their presence.

“We’re not fleeing to Stuttgart again.[2] If Hitler wants to kill me, let him shoot me in the office where I have a right to sit.”

He blinked for a moment. “There aren’t any Askari around, are there?”

“What?”

Stresemann shrugged. “No reason.”

Aftermath

In hindsight, the failure of the SA’s coup was ineveitable. Their inability to cut communications between Stresemann, holed up in the Presidential Palace, and the rest of Berlin ensured that the Reichswehr, Prussian Police [3], and Reichsbanner could subdue the uprising. Some members of the SA refused to rise up at all, still loyal to Hitler, who dithered long enough to lose any opportunity to act. This put Hitler in the unfortunate position of finally offering his support to Rohm only after most of Berlin had been secured, and it should come as no surprise that he ultimately fled to Austria. Martial law was declared across Germany, with an uneasy peace supported by some Steel Helmets, the Reichsbanner, the army, and others.

Meanwhile, the German economy lay in ruins; only the government’s currency controls and closure of the stock market had prevented an economic disaster, and Stresemann’s vision of a national community was in disarray. It would be up to him to pick up the pieces.

[1] Krupp really didn’t like the Nazis until 1933, thinking they were a threat to business. So, given his support of Stresemann, I find this pretty reasonable.

[2] During the Kapp Putsch, the government fled to Baden.

[3] Who are Social Democrats, bless their hearts.
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  #103  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:27 PM
LordInsane LordInsane is online now
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Hitler in Austria (natural, all things considered), the SA (and the two Nazi parties, at least to a lesser degree) practically broken- but so is the German economy. It will be interesting to see how this turns out...
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  #104  
Old July 2nd, 2008, 11:22 PM
arctic warrior arctic warrior is offline
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Just caught up on your TL - very good and interesting work. A nice different take on "interwar" Germany.
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  #105  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:13 AM
alt_historian alt_historian is offline
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I, um, I'm not getting what these guys have to do with anything...

Nevertheless, great update! I wonder how Stresemann will rebuild the German economy... has he met a certain Mr Keynes?
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  #106  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 12:17 AM
LordInsane LordInsane is online now
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I, um, I'm not getting what these guys have to do with anything...
It might be as maverick says. To quote him:
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Askaris? von Lettow-Vorbeck reference?
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  #107  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 02:52 AM
Keith Robertsson Keith Robertsson is offline
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Askaris? von Lettow-Vorbeck reference?

SNIP...
Maybe something akin to the Gurkha units of the British Army or the Papal Swiss Guard. A mercenary unit recruited from the old African colonies.
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  #108  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:19 AM
Faeelin Faeelin is offline
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I, um, I'm not getting what these guys have to do with anything...
This is a bad reference to my last TL, where Von Lettow made an appearance with Askari guards.

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Nevertheless, great update! I wonder how Stresemann will rebuild the German economy... has he met a certain Mr Keynes?
Actually, yes he has. But Germany had plenty of its own people advocating public work programmes.
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  #109  
Old July 3rd, 2008, 06:13 AM
Kabraloth Kabraloth is offline
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Ah, the Reichsbanner.
The unfallible German Wikipedia actually has their flag in the article.

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  #110  
Old July 4th, 2008, 12:56 PM
FaeelinsMan FaeelinsMan is offline
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Also, and this is merely a personal opinion...but I would have thought that a group named 'Iron Front' would have more right wing, militaristic connotations...just an opinion...
This was the name OTL, actually. I can see why too; when you have enemies like the Nazis and Communists, you want a name that indicates you're tough.
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  #111  
Old July 4th, 2008, 01:00 PM
FaeelinsMan FaeelinsMan is offline
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Ah, the Reichsbanner.
The unfallible German Wikipedia actually has their flag in the article.


I won't lie; it's not the most stirring of images.
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  #112  
Old July 4th, 2008, 01:06 PM
LordInsane LordInsane is online now
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I won't lie; it's not the most stirring of images.
It probably would look better as an actual, waving flag, without those strange discolourations.
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  #113  
Old July 4th, 2008, 04:19 PM
stevep stevep is offline
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It probably would look better as an actual, waving flag, without those strange discolourations.
Guys

Possibly assuming too much sophistication but could it be meant to be that way? That their loyal to and supporting a Germany that metaphorically has been trampled underfoot?

Steve
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  #114  
Old July 4th, 2008, 07:09 PM
LordInsane LordInsane is online now
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Guys

Possibly assuming too much sophistication but could it be meant to be that way? That their loyal to and supporting a Germany that metaphorically has been trampled underfoot?

Steve
That could be the case, too, of course. Likely, even.
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  #115  
Old July 4th, 2008, 07:11 PM
alt_historian alt_historian is offline
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I won't lie; it's not the most stirring of images.
But it has arrows! Which symbolise... uh... symbolic stuff.

How should I know?

Alright, it's not much good. But what were the flags of the Stahlhelm and the Communist paramilitaries? Let's compare them, then we'll see whose looks best!
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  #116  
Old July 4th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Kabraloth Kabraloth is offline
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Guys

Possibly assuming too much sophistication but could it be meant to be that way? That their loyal to and supporting a Germany that metaphorically has been trampled underfoot?

Steve
Unlikely. I think someone just wanted to make the flag look wavy.
Now here's a minor AH flag challenge: someone make a new, cleaned up, flag!
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  #117  
Old July 4th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Faeelin Faeelin is offline
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Unlikely. I think someone just wanted to make the flag look wavy.
Now here's a minor AH flag challenge: someone make a new, cleaned up, flag!
Hah, wouldn't be that hard too.

Anyway, sorry about the appearance of "Faeelinsman"; I'm at the bf's, and didn't realize he was logged on.
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  #118  
Old July 5th, 2008, 03:19 AM
Keith Robertsson Keith Robertsson is offline
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But it has arrows! Which symbolise... uh... symbolic stuff.

How should I know?

Alright, it's not much good. But what were the flags of the Stahlhelm and the Communist paramilitaries? Let's compare them, then we'll see whose looks best!
Me I think the flag would look better if the arrows faced upwards.
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  #119  
Old July 7th, 2008, 08:56 PM
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Building the National Community





DDVP poster from the 1930s. "Bread and work for the city and country; against dictatorship from the Left and the Right."



The old Germany and the new ought not to be permanently opposed; the Reichsbanner and the Stahlhelm should not for ever face each other as antagonists. Some means must be found of fusing the old and the new.-Gustav Stresemann, 1925

Stresemann’s own political beliefs were badly shaken in the aftermath of the aborted SA coup. The Nazis and Communists gained millions of votes in local elections, and it seemed that over a decade after the Republic’s birth violence was still a political tool. What had gone wrong? Stresemann, like many others, sought to answer this problem. Unlike many thinkers, he thought democracy still had a future.

Ultimately, Stresemann blamed democracy’s failure on the legacy of Wilhelmine government. In the Imperial era, parties had been based around interest groups who sought favors from an authoritarian government, whereas the Weimar state was based on coalition building by parties with varying interests. Thus, the Bourgeois were divided in the Republic into a variety of special interests groups as there was no true middle class consensus; unable to accomplish anything of import, many then turned to the extreme right.

Stresemann also noted which parties didn’t lose votes to the extremes: namely, the Socialists and the Center Party. The difference, in his opinion, was that they offered their members a secure place in a rapidly changing world. So too, he recognized, did the Nazis and Communists. The problem was in providing a place for the average German in a democratic society.

Meanwhile, Stresemann’s own beliefs changed during the early 1930s. He had always thought that the individual, although retaining personal and social freedom and the courage of responsibility, could live a full and meaningful life only as part of national community. Such a group depended as much on deep vital forces, "spiritual factors" as Stresemann put it, as much as on material or political factors. Instinct, culture, custom, and the "imponderables of the national soul" all contributed to the organic social community. The inclusion of all classes in the responsibility of state affairs, Stresemann argued, would infuse the idea of community with a sense of practical vitality. Stresemann, in short, imagined a welfare-oriented paternalism, where there would be cooperation between social units based not on mechanistic integration but on a spontaneous and sincere commitment to the national community. “[1] By 1933, however, Stresemann had decided the government must push for democracy, whether the people wanted it or not.

Among Stresemann’s contributions was the formation of a Republican youth movement. Germany had long had a variety of youth movements, and all the political parties attempted to recruit young people by providing them with their own organizations, such as the Bismarck Youth or the Windthorst League. The growing division among Germany’s youth was, in Stresemann’s view, a serious concern, and in 1931 he had discussed the possibility of a “united youth movement”, designed to inculcate Germany’s children with the values of the Republic. Although Stresemann had banned the Hitler Youth shortly after his election, he was aware of the potential, and 1934 witnessed the formation of the German Youth. Although it was never mandatory, pressure was put on parents financially to enroll their children in the program, which was to “inculcate the Children with German values and German traditions.”

The German Youth stressed charity (by using children to pressure adults into donating money to relief funds), the pride in Germany’s countryside (by sending children to work for farmers as cheap labor) and, ideally, the lessons of German history. There were problems, of course. Many of the leaders and coaches had profoundly conservative leanings, or failed to understand the material they taught. Far more successful were the various specialized organizations, in fields ranging from husbandry to aviation.


The German Youth was just one aspect of Stresemann’s vision of Germany’s future; others, such as the formation of the German Broadcasting Corporation, was another. Perhaps the most controversial, however, was his thoughts about the restoration of the monarchy. Stresemann had mixed feelings about the Empire, recognizing the good as well as the bad. He recognized, however, the hold that the Emperor had over the minds of many in the middle class, who he thought had turned towards self-destructive nationalism. Stresemann was not averse to a restoration of the monarchy per se; he had written to Prince August Wilhelm about restoring the monarchy in 1925. On the other hand, he has no desire to bring back Wilhelm, who he views as a doddering old fool; and August Wilhelm is a bit too close to the far right for Stresemann’s taste. In any case, Wilhelm has told his children that there will be hell to pay if they take a throne, and talks about restoring the monarchy in 1933 are too premature; it would look like a move of desperation. If only there was some other Hohenzollern. [2]

It is, however, worth remembering that there was no overarching plan, with much of Stresemann’s proposals driven the needs of the moment. Ultimately, it was not until 1936 that he could consider implementing any more serious reforms. For the survival of a National Community required ending the Depression.

The War For Work

Germany’s economic recovery began soon after the banking crisis of 1931. With the implementation of currency controls and a moratorium on reparations, Stresemann took advantage of the opportunity to create an inflationary money supply. The German government rapidly began putting unemployed workers to work on projects across Germany. The government built canals, power plants, schools, and even began construction on Germany’s now famous autobahns [3], financed through a variety of ingenious schemes. The effects of Stresemann’s programs were soon felt, and by the middle of 1933 unemployment had been reduced to three million [4], and by the beginning of 1936 was down to two million. More than anything else, it was Stresemann’s success at restoring the economy that brought his government success, and, ultimately support. Yet in the long run, how Stresemann combated the Depression was as important as his success at doing so, for his actions led to Germany’s world renowned auto industry and helped give birth to the computer revolution.

On June 3, September 1933, Stresemann turned the first sod on the first stretch of the Hamburg to Basel motorway, and by 1938 thousands of miles of roadways had been built, crisscrossing Germany like arteries . Built in a modernist style that Stresemann ironically hated, they symbolized the mastery of technology over nature, and, with the People’s Cars that began to dot the roads, the German people’s triumph over poverty. Stresemann also promoted car races and authorized tax cuts on car purchases, leading to the quadrupling of car production by 1935. [5]

Yet Stresemann also used tax cuts in other ways, notably to solve the unemployment problem among the graduates of Germany’s universities. [6] Afraid that the Depression would diminish interest in the sciences, he passed legislation giving companies tax cuts for hiring engineers and scientists coming out of Germany’s universities. While these are not solely responsible for the renaissance in German engineering in the latter half of the 1930s, with the discovery of the transistor and mass production of televisions, given the predominance of younger engineers in electronics, it is fair to say that Stresemann’s policy laid the foundation for much of Germany’s electronics industry. [7]

Yet there was one major failure in Streseman’s policy, and that was the agricultural sector. Stresemann was never comfortable amidst farmers; the DVP had drawn its support from the great cities, from merchants in Hamburg and businessmen in Berlin, and he was unfamiliar with their conditions. Moreover, subsidizing German agriculture by promoting autarky would have risked a tariff war that threatened Germany’s foreign trade, as well as raising costs for urban consumers. Although Stresemann supported programs to give farmers low interest loans, cheap fertilizer, and cheap labor, agriculture failed to recover as rapidly as the rest of the German economy. Given this situation, it is no surprise that many in the countryside to vote for nationalist parties.

Stresemann also continued to irritate Germany’s industrialists with his support for the cornerstones of the Weimar state. The Republic’s social security network remained in place, as did its system of collective wage agreements, trade unions, and state arbitration in industrial disputes. Although many industrialists were satisfied with Stresemann’s handling of economic recovery, they thought he was too sympathetic to the unions. For Stresemann, however, supporting the cornerstone of democracy by ensuring that workers received a square deal wasn’t something that troubled him in the slightest.

Still, as 1936 dawned, Stresemann could look with satisfaction on what he had done. Stresemann had brought his nation out of the Depression and restored its place in European affairs, with many calling him the Second Bismarck. And like Bismarck, he recognized that there were some changes to be made to map of Europe.

[1] A real cool paper by Stephen G. Fritz, entitled The Search for Volksgemeinschaft: Gustav Stresemann and the Baden DVP, 1926-1930, covers this pretty well.

[2] And of course restoring Wilhelm is the perfect way to freak out the rest of Europe.

[3] Why not? If you’re going to go for public works, go for roads.The motorways had another purpose, of course, creating 125,000 jobs in construction alone by 1935.

[4] It was around 4 million at this point under the Nazis.

[5] As under Hitler.

[6] As opposed to under the Nazis, where Germany’s education system became a disaster.

[7] Unfortunately, he also liked zeppelins. So I guess they hold out a bit longer.
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  #120  
Old July 7th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Alikchi Alikchi is offline
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Ooh, things are really swinging now. How is Stresemann's health, I wonder?

That bit about 'the map of Europe' at the end there is interesting. Danzig?
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