Escalated Falklands War

There's an old story about the Falklands War, that Margret Thatcher fired a warheadless nuclear missile into Argentina as a show of force.

There are also stories that there were plans to attack the Argentine mainland, among other things, by crashlanding Hercules full of SAS men onto airbases in what sounds like a suicide mission.

Or perhaps the RN stalks and sinks the Argentine carrier Veinticinco de Maio.

* What happens if the war is escalated in such a way? What happens if Britain participates in attacks on the Argentine mainland?

* Might it be possible for Argentina to reply in kind, maybe probe towards Ascension Island with subs carrying Buzo Tactico?

* And how does the rest of the world see all this?
 
Why would Britain escalate, though?

Despite all the hype at the time, the war was essentially, as Eddie Izzard put it, like a giant holding a midget off with one hand while simultaneously kicking him in the bollocks.

"Call them the Falklands!"

Malvinas!"

*KICK*


Britain gains nothing by escalating while Argentina doesn't really have the capacity to push Britain into a position where she would have to use more force.
 
There's an old story about the Falklands War, that Margret Thatcher fired a warheadless nuclear missile into Argentina as a show of force.

That was always the rumour. What'd have been the point? Alienated most supporters and done very little: the Junta knew no nukes'd be used. It was also during the Cold War, so the SOviets would have had a field day.

There are also stories that there were plans to attack the Argentine mainland, among other things, by crashlanding Hercules full of SAS men onto airbases in what sounds like a suicide mission.

That was true; it was a last-ditch idea to stop air attacks on the Fleet during the landings. Never acted upon since there were other ways - like using agents to purchase Exocets circumventing the temporary French ban on sales to that part of the world.

Or perhaps the RN stalks and sinks the Argentine carrier Veinticinco de Maio.

It did and could've sunk the carrier, but that was in April before the proper shooting started. By the time the situation had reached that level, the carrier had been lost.

* What happens if the war is escalated in such a way? What happens if Britain participates in attacks on the Argentine mainland?

Like the proposed SAS mission to kill off-duty pilots at Rio Gagellos air base?

Had that gone ahead I doubt it'd have caused too many international repercussions, albeit a little savage for some people's tastes. Far different from bombing a city or dockyard proximate to a residential area.


* Might it be possible for Argentina to reply in kind, maybe probe towards Ascension Island with subs carrying Buzo Tactico?

Not unless they all wanted to die. It'd be wasting a very valuable asset (the submarine) in a pointless display and how many could they have taken? 15-20 at maximum.

It'd have been better if they'd just kept their submarines around the Islands.

* And how does the rest of the world see all this?

See above.
 
Why would Britain escalate, though?

Despite all the hype at the time, the war was essentially, as Eddie Izzard put it, like a giant holding a midget off with one hand while simultaneously kicking him in the bollocks.

"Call them the Falklands!"

Malvinas!"

*KICK*

Britain gains nothing by escalating while Argentina doesn't really have the capacity to push Britain into a position where she would have to use more force.

I agree. But I'm just wondering what would happen if such an event were to take place. The what rather than the why :)
 
Like the proposed SAS mission to kill off-duty pilots at Rio Gagellos air base?

Had that gone ahead I doubt it'd have caused too many international repercussions, albeit a little savage for some people's tastes. Far different from bombing a city or dockyard proximate to a residential area.

I've not heard of that one. Can you tell me any more?
 
I've not heard of that one. Can you tell me any more?

Not really, ottomh (ooh! new abbreviation!), but I believe a stripped-down Herc was going to fly from Ascension and the survivors would try to escape to Chile.

IMO it'd have been very risky and prone to failure even before it even reached the place, but it really was a "pick your own medals" suicide mission.
 
"Margaret Thatcher forced François Mitterrand to give her the codes to disable Argentina's deadly French-made missiles during the Falklands war by threatening to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/22/books.france

That’s about as escalated it can get I think. Would Maggie do it? I think she is the mostly likely to do it in the post war Prime Ministers.
 
"Margaret Thatcher forced François Mitterrand to give her the codes to disable Argentina's deadly French-made missiles during the Falklands war by threatening to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/22/books.france

That’s about as escalated it can get I think. Would Maggie do it? I think she is the mostly likely to do it in the post war Prime Ministers.

Article nicely released just in time for the book.....
 
"Margaret Thatcher forced François Mitterrand to give her the codes to disable Argentina's deadly French-made missiles during the Falklands war by threatening to launch a nuclear warhead against Buenos Aires,"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/nov/22/books.france

That’s about as escalated it can get I think. Would Maggie do it? I think she is the mostly likely to do it in the post war Prime Ministers.

A lot of that is pure hyperbole to sell a book.

The French sent their Mirages so the Shars could practice shooting them down. They actually provided a fair bit of help (because they have similar overseas interests and might require a favour too).

As soon as the conflict started the UK and US were developing Exocet countermeasures, the French provided assistance (at some risk to their good reputation as an international arms dealer), but they weren't able to be deployed in time and sufficient numbers to prevent ship losses.
 

Thande

Donor
Despite all the hype at the time, the war was essentially, as Eddie Izzard put it, like a giant holding a midget off with one hand while simultaneously kicking him in the bollocks.

"Call them the Falklands!"

Malvinas!"

*KICK*

It was actually Ricky Gervais who did that routine, the only funny thing I've ever heard him say.

And I agree. No matter how fun (in a Britwankish way) it may be to picture the SAS storming the Casa Rosada á la the Russians in Red Alert 2, Britain would have nothing to gain from escalation. We kept the moral high ground by fighting a mostly defensive war.
 
Again a good point, but this isn't about arguing the case for escalation of the war, it's about examining the fall-out and repercussions from such an escalation ;)

Operación Algeciras sounds truly bizarre. And according to the Wiki, they almost managed it. Not sure how they fought that would help Argentina's chances in the war though - wouldn't sinking a ship in Gibraltar be seen as an act of terrorism, or total war?
 
Additional: I read a (fictional) book yesterday, about 24 Argentine deserters living in a hole on the Falklands, trying to keep out of the way of the fighting and play both sides off against eachother. Though it verges on the ridiculous and libellous (Argentine prisoners are raped tortured and killed, whole flights of aeroplanes disintegrate in the air, a British observer is sent to stay with the deserters and is killed and no-one bats an eyelid, a Para and and Argentine conscript have an affair... Well maybe he was from 3 Para Mortars ;)), its also funny in places. Like for example how the Argentines are convinced a Soviet Fleet is sailing up behind the RN task force.

It was written in 1982 while the war was still on, got in trouble in Argentina for daring to suggest that Military Dictatorship was a bad thing and the war was being lost, and recently translated.

A review is here.
 
Well if we accept ASB options. What if Argentina asked Moscow to join the WarPac immediately after taking islands?
 

67th Tigers

Banned
That was true; it was a last-ditch idea to stop air attacks on the Fleet during the landings. Never acted upon since there were other ways - like using agents to purchase Exocets circumventing the temporary French ban on sales to that part of the world.

B Squadron were emplaning when the operation was cancelled, and it was quite a bit more complicated than landing on the airfield....
 

Riain

Banned
I've always wondered what would have happened if the Junta decided to indave on the same day, but actually done it on 25 of May, their national day? That alone would escalate the war. Those extra months of peace could be used to buy last minute equipment and spares etc. and Britian's inability to re-invade until next southern spring would give them even more time. They could lengthen the Pt Stanley runway, and work out tactics appropriate for this particular war for example.

Britain would have to increase it's own efforts to retake the islands as a matter of course, and would have months in which to do it. Everything the Brits had ready at the end of the OTL campiagn, and more, would be ready to go in October when the weather turned for the better.
 
How, pray tell, would these alleged shutdown codes actually WORK?

It's nothing to do with 'shutdown codes.' It's the same bollocks people write about the British nuclear deterrent.

In the case of Exocets, it was information solely to hasten the development of soft-kill countermeasures by fucking with their guidance to render them (mostly :D ) harmless.

In the case of nukes, it's to do with guidance.

No 'shutdown' codes.
 
It's nothing to do with 'shutdown codes.' It's the same bollocks people write about the British nuclear deterrent.

In the case of Exocets, it was information solely to hasten the development of soft-kill countermeasures by fucking with their guidance to render them (mostly :D ) harmless.

In the case of nukes, it's to do with guidance.

No 'shutdown' codes.

Hmm...could you elaborate? The French, since they built the Exocets, would know their weak points. What ultimately happened?
 
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