Spain Enters WW2 On The Axis Side

What are the consequences of Spain entering WW2 on the Axis side?

Certainly, Franco would invade France. He might be able to get as far as Marseilles and join up with the Italians.
How powerful was the Spanish military at the time?
Maybe, with some luck, Franco could completely conquer France (possibly with limited German help) and free up German troops for an earlier Barbarossa. But that also leads to the weaker Spanish defending Normandy.

So many possible outcomes!

Yes, so many possible outcomes. But I tend to believe the most likely outcomes are not extremely favorable to Germany. Spain was an extremely insignificant military power in 1940, even with the recent influx of Geman and Italian assistance in the Civil War. It is not unlikely that, had Franco invaded France, his forces would get bogged down and possibly hindered, not helped the Germans force an armistice on France. Also, unless Britain opted out of the war in 1940 (something I don't see Spanish entry affecting one way or the other - if anything the possible threat to Gibraltar would have made the British sven more sure of continuing), Hitler will still go thru the attempt to neutralize England in the Battle of Britain and the lead up to Sealion. So Barbarossa would follow about the same schedule. The best thing for Germany would have been for Franco to formally join the Axis after the fall of France. The would have definite advantages in the Battle of the Atlantic and in the Med and North African campaigns. Possibly, if Hitler doesn't invade the USSR, having Spain in the Axis might help Germany force Britain to the table in the long term.

Well, Spain could also concentrate their military on Gibraltar, and they could've captured it. With that capture, the UK would have been virtually powerless to supply the Mediterranean, maybe causing a faster downfall of the Balkans. This would have caused Barbarossa to go by it's original schedule and not be delayed by battles in Greece and Yugoslavia. Then the Germans could miss the Russian winter if they moved fast enough, because it was mostly the winter that stopped them. Also, German naval support at Gibraltar could cause the Italians to capture Egypt and then most Allied African territories. I think that a Spanish entry into the war could have caused an Axis victory. They had all this in their favor :

• victorious Barbarossa
• victory in Africa
• British Mediterranean supply crisis
• possibly a faster downfall of France

With all this on the Axis side, I think Britain would have definitely bailed out of the war, leaving America to fight the Axis. America would probably defeat Japan and make a "white" peace with Germany. Who knows what would have happened in the post-War world?

Are there any timelines about this?

Spain had better things to do in 1939 than lending a tiny help to Germany. Such as, trying to recover from World War Two Beta or giving food to a starving population.

Spain had little to gain from joining the war and a lot to lose. For starters, the Canary Islands would be gone in days or weeks.

You would see a much larger African campaign for sure. Also, since we are thinking that Spain would join during the Battle of France, after Africa was liberated-and it would be liberated-you would see an intense campaign to capture Gibraltar-kinda like Spain's version of the Invasion of Sicily.

The fronts however, would be that much slower, due to Allied resources being further split up. The Russians would probably not get as much aid-and this in turn, might lead to their downfall, or at the very least, would give them less strength, and their empire in eastern europe might not include Eastern germany.

Of course, all of this depends on wether Britain backs out following Spain's capture of Gibrlatar-with the Med basically cut off, they could do little in the Pacific.

You have a point. On the other hand, Franco might well have turned out as another Mussolini - a starter of wars and invasions the Germans had to finish. I think it is far from certain that Spain could have taken Gibraltar without German help.

My own view is that Germany would have perhaps done better if neither Italy or Spain entered the war. That way, there would have been no real reason to invade Greece, and no need to waste all that effort in North Africa, and probably less cause to get involved in the Balkans. With friendly neutrals (incliding Vichy France) in just about all of Europe, the Nazis could have kept the war focused on Britain in a much more limited theatre (Britain and the Atlantic) and invaded the USSR at a schedule more conducive to success.

Bloodbath

The only reason Spain would enter the war would be to get Gibraltar.
Any attack would have been a bloodbath which would kill all the regular troops sent to take it.
The WW2 was only just after the end of the Spanish Civil War.
So if Franco lost a lot of troops the civil war would restart with weapons provided by the British

An where do the spanish get the resources to attack anything? how do they keep there troops equiped. All the spanish would do is tie up german resources. It would have also created an extra area to guard against an invasion of europe

IIRC, the head of German Intelligence, Canaris, decided to work against the Nazi regime- one of his achivements was keeping Spain out of the Axis (now weather or not it would have joined otherwise...)

Could the Axis Powers use the Spanish navy in the Mediterranean See to defeat the British?

Spain was very very tired after its own civil war

No way.

To those who say that Spain could "completely conquer France (possibly with limited German help)" (!!) I ask: with what?

To those who say Spain could occupy Gibraltar, I ask: have you considered the outcome of the artillery duel that would entail?

To those who say the Spanish fleet could help the Germans, I ask: have you got an idea of what that fleet was made up of?

To those who think a Spain in war against Britain was a real possibility, I ask: do you know that Spain's agriculture was a shambles after the Civil War, and that Spain was importing basic foodstuffs from overseas? I.e., that hostility with Britain would simply starve Spain?

To those who imagine Spanish Morocco would be of help for the Axis campaign in North Africa, I ask: have you considered the logistics? Do you know what Spain had left to garrison those long, long coasts while it waged its Civil War in the homeland with all those, well, guess, Moroccan troops?

To those who think that a Spanish Declaration of War on Britain after the fall of France would help in the Battle of the Atlantic, I ask: how are they going to prevent the British from taking the Canarias and turning them in a useful base for ASW aircraft?

To those who believe that a fall of Gibraltar would have meant the British would be unable to supply the Med, I ask: are you aware that 98% of the British supplies to the Med went along the Cape route and Suez anyway?

To those who think Spain would fall to the Allies in 1946 or so, I ask: do you remember how anxious were the British to find a peripheral theater in 1940?

It is difficult to imagine that Spain could not have taken Gibraltar. It wouldn't be a walk over, but to contend that the military resources of the entire nation (no matter what state it was in) couldn't defeat those of the fortress seems insane. At worst they need to bring in some German experts, preferably with some good artillery. It would be a cost that Germany could easilly pay.

Its just that is all they could really accomplish and the costs of getting involved are immense. Far better to just wait. If Britain is defeated then Franco can claim the prize anyway without any risks.

Earling said:

It is difficult to imagine that Spain could not have taken Gibraltar. It wouldn't be a walk over, but to contend that the military resources of the entire nation (no matter what state it was in) couldn't defeat those of the fortress seems insane.

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There are two ways to defeat artillery in fortifications. Either you win the artillery duel, which Spain, with all its national resources applied to the task, would not be able to; or you win through an assault, which would really be the insane thing to try. A siege is not an option with Royal Navy control of the sea.

At worst they need to bring in some German experts, preferably with some good artillery. It would be a cost that Germany could easilly pay.

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Yes, Germany would have long-range super-heavy artillery capable of doing the trick. Of course if they go to Gibraltar they don't go somewhere else, so the "easily" part depends on what they are giving up.
Note that railroad big guns are extremely vulnerable to air attacks, so the Germans also need to provide fighter cover for them, another item they won't be using elsewhere if they have to send it down the Spanish peninsula.

asd21593 said:

Well, Spain could also concentrate their military on Gibraltar, and they could've captured it. With that capture, the UK would have been virtually powerless to supply the Mediterranean, maybe causing a faster downfall of the Balkans. This would have caused Barbarossa to go by it's original schedule and not be delayed by battles in Greece and Yugoslavia. Then the Germans could miss the Russian winter if they moved fast enough, because it was mostly the winter that stopped them. Also, German naval support at Gibraltar could cause the Italians to capture Egypt and then most Allied African territories. I think that a Spanish entry into the war could have caused an Axis victory. They had all this in their favor :

• victorious Barbarossa
• victory in Africa
• British Mediterranean supply crisis
• possibly a faster downfall of France

With all this on the Axis side, I think Britain would have definitely bailed out of the war, leaving America to fight the Axis. America would probably defeat Japan and make a "white" peace with Germany. Who knows what would have happened in the post-War world?

Are there any timelines about this?

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The British aren't really supplied through Gibraltar. They are mostly supplied via the Cape except for a few fast convoys. Short of a huge German air fleet in southern Spain the fast convoys could probably be run anyway.

It is hard to see how supplies to the Balkans would be affected, and almost as hard to see how this would significantly affect Barbarossa.

On the other hand Spain would starve and Free French support would grow enormously as French colonies were carved up as a bribe.

Michele said:

To those who say the Spanish fleet could help the Germans, I ask: have you got an idea of what that fleet was made up of?

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A couple of Cruisers, an old Seaplane Carrier and assorted lighter units IIRC.

The last spanish dreadnought was scrapped just before the war... but even if it had still been around it'd be little more than a light snack for a QE or R class.

While there have been no indications to date that the Spaniards would take sides in the war as a result of this particular operation, this contingency must be looked on as a possibility, particularly if Germany should make a definite move toward entering Spain. In any event, Spain’s entry would instantly entail the loss of Gibraltar as a landing field and would prevent our use of the Strait of Gibraltar until effective action could be taken by the Allies. In view of available resources, it would appear doubtful that such effective action is within our capabilities.​

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If Spain turns Axis, what does Portugal do? In OTL the Nazis sunk some Portuguese ships. Portugal let the British use the Azores on one hand, but on the other hand they sold tungsten to the Nazis.

There is not the slightest chance whatsoever of Spain entering the war on the Axis side after Barbarossa has failed and the US has entered the war.

Now, if you want to discuss the consequences if Hitler invades and occupies Spain...

It is also import that when one talks of the Spanish fleet anywhere from 70-80% of the seamen where on the Republican side, and against there officers. This is why Franco is considered so important with his airtransport of much of his army.

I think it was not until 1944 that Spain had regained its navy up to pre-civil war levels. So one can easily throw out the idea of the Spanish fleet having any real outcome upon naval control.

Next I am curious as to why no Germans are sent to Spain to help take out Gibraltar. I mean a few good bombing raids, and the area is mostly taken out. I've always pictured an earlier landing, perhaps Operation torch upon Europe if Spain was put into the war.