Spain in WW1
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
Max Sinister
Banned
I could just imagine that the Germans violated the neutrality of Spanish Equatorial Guinea.
Thande
Donor
Aye, but our old friend Lettow-Vorbeck and his cronies violated the neutrality of Portuguese Mozambique several times whilst Portugal was neutral, and that was not what led to Portugal declaring war.
Max Sinister
Banned
You have more details? AFAIK Portugal joined the war in 1916, but LV marched into Portuguese territory in 1917.
Besides, Portugal was weaker than Spain.
Besides, Portugal was weaker than Spain.
Thande
Donor
My mistake - just rechecked and it was a clash in Angola with German troops (presumably from Namibia/German SW Africa). So not L-V. This didn't lead directly to Portugal entering the war, but it may have been one reason why they agreed to a British request to arrest German ships in Portuguese ports in 1916, which is what led to Germany declaring war on Portugal.
Easy: Prevent the Spanish-American War from happening. Before that the common policy in foreign affairs was to support Britain and France unless they were fighting each other. After the war, the common policy was just to avoid messing with anybody, and avoiding any military alliance that could bring the country another defeat of that size.
So suppose that there isn't any type of Spanish-American War. The remains of the empire are secured, though sporadic problems with the independentists in Cuba and with the Germans in the Polinesia and the Philippines. When WW1 arrives Spain sides with the Entente due to common Kaiser Bill's always unfortunate attitudes, probably not at the start but likely before Portugal or Italy did in OTL. As a result, Spain annexes small bits of the Kameroons and perhaps some non-use archipielago more in the Polinesia, plus some favourable redrawn of the frontiers in Morocco (Cabo Juby was ceded around this time, so perhaps in TTL it includes as well a land connection to Sidi Ifni and maybe, if the French have a very good day, the city of Fez as well, that was briefly planned to be given to Spain when Morocco was partitioned but finally ended in the hands of the French).
However, the lack of true democracy plus the costs of the war (and forget the economic boom that was the return of the capitals locked at Cuba and the selling of arms and supplies to the warring nations during WWI!) would make the people suitable for uprisings, and I'm pretty sure that the Cubans and the filipinos would rise boer-style as soon as Spain is distracted sending men to Guinea and the Western Front.
So suppose that there isn't any type of Spanish-American War. The remains of the empire are secured, though sporadic problems with the independentists in Cuba and with the Germans in the Polinesia and the Philippines. When WW1 arrives Spain sides with the Entente due to common Kaiser Bill's always unfortunate attitudes, probably not at the start but likely before Portugal or Italy did in OTL. As a result, Spain annexes small bits of the Kameroons and perhaps some non-use archipielago more in the Polinesia, plus some favourable redrawn of the frontiers in Morocco (Cabo Juby was ceded around this time, so perhaps in TTL it includes as well a land connection to Sidi Ifni and maybe, if the French have a very good day, the city of Fez as well, that was briefly planned to be given to Spain when Morocco was partitioned but finally ended in the hands of the French).
However, the lack of true democracy plus the costs of the war (and forget the economic boom that was the return of the capitals locked at Cuba and the selling of arms and supplies to the warring nations during WWI!) would make the people suitable for uprisings, and I'm pretty sure that the Cubans and the filipinos would rise boer-style as soon as Spain is distracted sending men to Guinea and the Western Front.
Are you so sure? I once wrote a paper on Lettow-Vorbeck. Basically, he spent a lot of 1917 in Portuguese East Africa, because by that time he was unable to prevent Smuts from overwhelming and outflanking his lines in modern Tanzania through weight of numbers. But yes, Portugal was in the war around that time. Not sure whether he caused it or not, but the Portuguese were deffinatly to ready to fight him.
Thande
Donor
That's quite interesting in itself. One wonders what the Japanese and the Americans would do. Depending on the latter, America's world image could either be much shinier or much more tainted than OTL.
"Not being invaded"?
Even if the CP win in the end and Spain gets something out of it, that might well be outweighed by damage to the country by French and Portuguese invasion/occupation.Susano
Banned
But if the Entente wins, and Spain ahs sided with them, what does it gain? Togo? Because they hardly could get european territory then. Besides, they might see Portugal as a good target."Not being invaded"?
Parts of the former German Cameroon; this sounds likely. The German and the Spanish Empire were neighbours in Africa.
Max Sinister
Banned
Now this is close to ASB - but WI Germany knocked out Russia, overrun France (maybe ITTL the Germans invent the tank first), and because Britain doesn't want to make peace to German conditions, in the last weeks of the war Spain joins to get Gibraltar?
Indeed, but we be getting into too many butterflies.
In what TL are you living?"Not being invaded"?
Portugal might try to invade Spain, at the risk of seeing Angola or Mozambique invaded by the neighboring German colonies. Likewise, if Portugal focuses on its colonies and not on Europe, then it may open itself to attack from Spain. France invading anything in Europe in World War I is nearly imlausible, especially with Italy on the fence, and Spain backing the Germans. The only winning option for Spain is in going with the Central Powers. Although, Spain going the other way could make for an interesting TL, and may not be implausible in and of itself. However, Spanish involvement for the entente would not have won them nearly as much, and would result in a similar war to OTL, but a peace that might be significantly different. Either way, the peace could be both interesting and different in some key respects.Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
A TL with Spain in the Entente is kind of boring. I mean what difference would it make? Spain can't do anything for the Entente.
Spain on the CP side, however, would be a total disaster for the Entente. Just its geographical position ensures that.
I'm going to agree. Although, Spain siding with the Entente, and getting Cameroon at the peace table as a result could produce interesting results down the line.
The colony wasn't profitable for Germany. Why will it be for Spain?
Was profitable Portuguese Africa? Portugal was at WWI and she only received a port in the former German East Africa at th peace tables. The question is not only what can be won, but also what could be lost if the country doesn't join the war. Portugal feared that a victorious Germany could get Angola, Mozambique and the Açores, that's why the Portuguese made every possible effort to avoid a German victory. That is as well, the most likely way to have Spain in WWI:
a) As I said before, avoid the Spanish-American War or at least its Pacific theatre. The Germans were interested in the Philippines and the Spanish Polinesia. If those remain part of Spain, Spain would join the GW to secure them against German ambitions.
b) Also possible, but less likely, is if the war breaks out a bit earlier for reasons related to Morocco. Maybe Germany tricks the Sultan and signs with him a secret treaty of protection, or Germany sents an ultimatum demanding Moroccan independence after the country is partitioned in 1912. If the Spanish interests in the north of the country are threatened (or even worse, the German plans for his Moroccan puppet includes the Spanish possesions in Ifni, Ceuta and Melilla) that means war.
Joining the CP, on the other hand, is just suicide.